Experiment: place a world-famous musician in a metro subway

[Opus132]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... =features1

[Lance]

What an incredible story! It's amazing what we may have in front of us as we pass by and never REALLY know what we're passing by. There's a lesson to be learned here. I'm sure anybody who knows anything about classical music must have at least thought that here's a poor lost soul who has incredible talent. The problem is, of course, that when you're on your way to work in the morning to face the days problems and requirements, one may not be thinking about anything artistic. The world needs to slow down and smell the roses ... or, in this case, hear the birds sing, as it were.

[jbuck919]

I'm afraid I absolutely do not get the point, except to say that, in Germany, street performing is considered a legitimate pursuit and one has to audition to receive a license to do it. And in Washington, "Metro Subway" is redundant.

[Lance]

I'm afraid I absolutely do not get the point, except to say that, in Germany, street performing is considered a legitimate pursuit and one has to audition to receive a license to do it. And in Washington, "Metro Subway" is redundant.

Well, I guess in this case, the USA could take some lessons from Germany. I guess the point is that one could have the most glorious artist in front of one, not dressed in concert attire, and our conception of an artist changes drastically, and also because that artist is out of his/her "element." Perhaps the point is that we don't judge the book by its cover; that may be a simple way of putting it. It could have been Heifetz playing the fiddler; it would have garnered no more interest that it did with Mr. Bell.

[Ralph]

Context often determines response and I'm not surprised Bell went unrecognized by most. Even classical music lovers do not expect world-class musicians to perform at a subway station.

[jbuck919]

Context often determines response and I'm not surprised Bell went unrecognized by most. Even classical music lovers do not expect world-class musicians to perform at a subway station.

No one but an immense connoisseur would have been able to differentiate. I am reminded of a broadcast many years ago in which Andres Segovia was adjucating a guitar competition. "You have trimmed your nails, but you have not filed them," he said to one competitor.

[piston]

How heavy is that connaisseur, John? 320 pounds?

[Ricordanza]

I'm afraid I absolutely do not get the point, except to say that, in Germany, street performing is considered a legitimate pursuit and one has to audition to receive a license to do it. And in Washington, "Metro Subway" is redundant.

Well, I guess in this case, the USA could take some lessons from Germany. I guess the point is that one could have the most glorious artist in front of one, not dressed in concert attire, and our conception of an artist changes drastically, and also because that artist is out of his/her "element." Perhaps the point is that we don't judge the book by its cover; that may be a simple way of putting it. It could have been Heifetz playing the fiddler; it would have garnered no more interest that it did with Mr. Bell.

Another point is that, sadly, classical music has become marginalized in this country. I've seen crowds gather around street musicians at times, but only when they are playing recognizable popular tunes. It's very sad that so few people stopped to listen to a musician of Bell's caliber.

P.S. While I avoid panhandlers, I always give something to street musicians. I always think, if things had turned out differently, if I had had some bad breaks...

[jbuck919]

Another point is that, sadly, classical music has become marginalized in this country. I've seen crowds gather around street musicians at times, but only when they are playing recognizable popular tunes. It's very sad that so few people stopped to listen to a musician of Bell's caliber.

The US does not have a monopoly on lack of depth of taste, trust me. In Germany, the street violinist would be playing the melody of Schubert's Ave Maria as the high end of the possibilities.

[MaestroDJS]

This experiment illustrates why it is so amusing to hear some people maintain in all seriousness that X, Y and Z are the greatest composers ever, and almost all other composers suck -- end of discussion. They have probably formulated their opinions in advance simply by the context: the names that are attached to the music. One excellent example of music out of context is the so-called "Jena" Symphony, which was discovered in 1909 and believed to be an early work by Beethoven. As such, numerous performances followed, and a piano reduction was published by no less than Max Reger. However, its fame faded quickly in the 1950s when its true author was found to be one Friedrich Witt (1770-1836).

I simply don't know whether I could recognize works of greatness out of context, but at least I can recognize works of goodness, so I try to keep an open mind. Besides, most of the fun is in the exploration of music, and the knowledge that I can be just plain wrong keeps me on my toes.

[Donald Isler]

I agree with Dave that one should keep an open mind. Part of the reason I became interested in Spohr was hearing a chamber music work on the radio that was so good I thought it might be Schubert, but it was actually Spohr.

[MaestroDJS]

Well, well, a very similar thing happened to me. I was strolling along the shore of Lake Michigan up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin one lovely autumn day. I tuned in my radio headphones to the local classical station just as some unfamiliar music began. Hey this is is an interesting piece by Bach. No, wait, it's by Handel. No, wait, it's by ... gee I don't know, but it sure is interesting.

And so unfolded Symphony No. 6 in G Major "Historical" by Ludwig Spohr, a delightful discovery.

[Chalkperson]

A few years ago I let my friend photograph (his cousin) Itzhak Perlman at my studio and figured I should play something to put him in the right frame of mind so I put on Fritz Kreislers two RCA CD's from 1927/8...Itzhak arrived and immediately his ears pricked up and he looked at me and said "Who is this we are listening to?" Fritz Kreisler I replied "I know that, but who is playing?" Fritz Kreisler I replied again "Thats Impossible" why said I "Because I know what he sounds like and that is not him"...I pulled out the original cd cover and had him sign it for me...

[hautbois]

Context often determines response and I'm not surprised Bell went unrecognized by most. Even classical music lovers do not expect world-class musicians to perform at a subway station.

So it becomes interesting this topic, of which do we appreciate something just because we are informed that it is good, or do we no longer learn by ourselves that it is good? What a beautiful article! Thankyou Opus132, this made my day!

Howard

[RebLem]

Another point is that, sadly, classical music has become marginalized in this country. I've seen crowds gather around street musicians at times, but only when they are playing recognizable popular tunes. It's very sad that so few people stopped to listen to a musician of Bell's caliber.

The US does not have a monopoly on lack of depth of taste, trust me. In Germany, the street violinist would be playing the melody of Schubert's Ave Maria as the high end of the possibilities.

I have never been to Europe, but I have heard that even in Salzburg, the ubiquity of oompah bands is enough to drive a body batty.

[keaggy220]

Opps, I see someone beat me to posting this so my post on this can be deleted.

I did want to say that if I were on my way to an appointment I probably would not stop because I would be so focussed on work. However, if I were on my way home I would definitely stop and enjoy the music.

[IcedNote]

Ha! l love it.

Actually, something similar was staged by Guitar Player magazine a while ago in London. They had one of the most respected guitarists, Yngwie Malmsteen, take a practice amp and play on a street corner. In much the same fashion, he was virtually ignored by passerbys. So, it's not just classical musicians who are getting the cold shoulder!

Here's a video of Yngwie playing. Since I'm assuming most of you have never heard of him, I thought it'd be worth mentioning that he actually became famous for using a lot of Baroque ideas in his heavy metal music! In fact, he basically single-handedly started the movement in metal known as "neoclassical shred."

Yngwie Malmsteen - "Baroque and Roll"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZPQVDWXCpI

Oh, and being a guitarist myself, I can tell you that he is VERY good at what he does.

-G

[jbuck919]

Ha! l love it.

Actually, something similar was staged by Guitar Player magazine a while ago in London. They had one of the most respected guitarists, Yngwie Malmsteen, take a practice amp and play on a street corner. In much the same fashion, he was virtually ignored by passerbys. So, it's not just classical musicians who are getting the cold shoulder!

Here's a video of Yngwie playing. Since I'm assuming most of you have never heard of him, I thought it'd be worth mentioning that he actually became famous for using a lot of Baroque ideas in his heavy metal music! In fact, he basically single-handedly started the movement in metal known as "neoclassical shred."

Yngwie Malmsteen - "Baroque and Roll"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZPQVDWXCpI

Oh, and being a guitarist myself, I can tell you that he is VERY good at what he does.

-G

All pop music that bears only an incidental resemblance to serious music is exactly that, pop music that bears only an incidental resemblance to serioous music. That doesn't mean that we are not allowed to enjoy the pop stuff, but it does mean that it is foolish to make a meaningful comparison. I cannot think of a single ambiguous example, even with a composer like Bernstein who wrote valuable compositions in both classical and popular modes.

[Chalkperson]

All pop music that bears only an incidental resemblance to serious music is exactly that, pop music that bears only an incidental resemblance to serioous music. That doesn't mean that we are not allowed to enjoy the pop stuff, but it does mean that it is foolish to make a meaningful comparison. I cannot think of a single ambiguous example, even with a composer like Bernstein who wrote valuable compositions in both classical and popular modes.

Mr Expert,
Again you make blanket statements on everything you read, for Rock Bands in the 60s and early 70s often used a classical base as this was the only music that they were taught by their music teachers and Rock Bands like Deep Purple/Pink Floyd/Yes/ELP/Led Zeppelin came from an era where they had no previous pop/rock influence to copy and many used the baroque forms because of this and George Martin started putting string quartets on Beatles records because he was classically trained...and were'nt the Beatles the most significant Quartet in over 100 years...I spent 25 years in the music business and can tell you that by the time 2050 comes around you will be surprised by how much Rock/Pop etc is accepted as Classic(al)...

ps I know you refuse to accept Porgy and Bess Being an Opera I assume you feel the same about Pete Townshend's Tommy which will be 40 years old in 2009...

[jbuck919]

All pop music that bears only an incidental resemblance to serious music is exactly that, pop music that bears only an incidental resemblance to serioous music. That doesn't mean that we are not allowed to enjoy the pop stuff, but it does mean that it is foolish to make a meaningful comparison. I cannot think of a single ambiguous example, even with a composer like Bernstein who wrote valuable compositions in both classical and popular modes.

Mr Expert,
Again you make blanket statements on everything you read, for Rock Bands in the 60s and early 70s often used a classical base as this was the only music that they were taught by their music teachers and Rock Bands like Deep Purple/Pink Floyd/Yes/ELP/Led Zeppelin came from an era where they had no previous pop/rock influence to copy and many used the baroque forms because of this and George Martin started putting string quartets on Beatles records because he was classically trained...and were'nt the Beatles the most significant Quartet in over 100 years...I spent 25 years in the music business and can tell you that by the time 2050 comes around you will be surprised by how much Rock/Pop etc is accepted as Classic(al)...

ps I know you refuse to accept Porgy and Bess Being an Opera I assume you feel the same about Pete Townshend's Tommy which will be 40 years old in 2009...

I'm sorry, but sometimes I lose patience. Exactly what do you expect anyone here to be except an expert? If you think that facetious pop which only exists for low levels of gratification is going to survive for 100 years in other than a sociological/historical sense and owes something to classical music except in the most incidental manner, perhaps you belong on a site that calls itself something other than the Classical Music Guide.

[Chalkperson]

Yngwie Malmsteen - "Baroque and Roll"

-G

There was an album By Roy Harper, a friend of The Zeps who plays on LZ4 who put out an album called...

"Flat, Baroque and Beserk"

I always loved that title and I should say that in the late sixties my favourite LP's ALL contained Classical Music,

Deep Purple and the London Symphony Orchestra
Nick Drake - Five Leaves Left
Pink Floyd - Atom Heart Mother
ELP Pictures at an Exhibition
Rick Wakeman - The Six Wives of Henry V111
Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed

because of those influences I now have over ten thousand Classical cd's and rarely play any other kind of music, so I guess this is also why I disagree with Mr Expert about it's value and potential power...

[Chalkperson]

The poster Icednote had brought up contempory music today in the 21st Century and also in his Thread about Opera reccomendations he mentioned a few Rock bands, guess I was writing to him and I suppose if you had your way I would have to send him a private e-mail...i'll do that in the future...

PS I called you Mr Expert because of 'Military Band Expert' nothing else although maybe it should have been Mr M.B. Expert, it was a 'joke' , sorry but i'm a Brit and we have a sense of humour, (actually i'm Welsh) and I am sure many of us privately may consider ourselves experts but not feel the need to proclaim ourselves as such...

[jbuck919]

The poster Icednote had brought up contempory music today in the 21st Century and also in his Thread about Opera reccomendations he mentioned a few Rock bands, guess I was writing to him and I suppose if you had your way I would have to send him a private e-mail...i'll do that in the future...

PS I called you Mr Expert because of 'Military Band Expert' nothing else, it was a 'joke' , sorry but i'm a Brit and we have a sense of humour, (actually i'm Welsh) and I am sure many of us privately may consider ourselves experts but not feel the need to proclaim ourselves as such...

For your information, Corlyss, one of our moderators, makes up those nicknames and labeled me "Military Band Expert" without consulting me, though she is rarely wrong about these things so I would not call it into question. I use my given name, John.

[Chalkperson]

Ok John, my name is Chalkie...my name is already a nickname, my real one is Welsh and seroiusly unpronouncable...

ps I don't drink so we won't be meeting up in the Pub...

[Opus132]

I don't want to be mean but Yngwie is shite, even by rock standards. Virtuosity isn't a virtue in itself, you know?

Just listen to his (fake) concerto for guitar, or his butchering of the fifth to see just how much 'influence' he has drawn for classical music.

The only rock music that has ever remotely approached higher standards of craft usually draws from jazz rather then classical. Some end up taking from both (Frank Zappa, King Crimson), but that's the exception rather then rule, and they usually draw influence from modern composers to boot.

[MaestroDJS]

Rock Bands in the 60s and early 70s often used a classical base as this was the only music that they were taught by their music teachers

Very true. Keith Emerson comes to mind immediately, and I was impressed by his Piano Concerto No. 1, which appeared on the Emerson, Lake and Palmer album Works. Their versions of Pictures At An Exhibition and Fanfare for the Common Man are fun but very distorted, although Copland himself was reportedly amused by this arrangement. On the other hand, their version of the Toccata from Alberto Ginastera's Piano Concerto No. 1 is downright exciting, and the composer himself approved it.

[IcedNote]

I don't want to be mean but Yngwie is shite, even by rock standards. Virtuosity isn't a virtue in itself, you know?

Just listen to his (fake) concerto for guitar, or his butchering of the fifth to see just how much 'influence' he has drawn for classical music.

The only rock music that has ever remotely approached higher standards of craft usually draws from jazz rather then classical. Some end up taking from both (Frank Zappa, King Crimson), but that's the exception rather then rule, and they usually draw influence from modern composers to boot.

I was referring to his playing ability, not his compositional ability.

And how on earth can you deny his classical influence?!

-G

[living_stradivarius]

If Bell chose something more showy over Bach (Paganini Caprices?), he may have gotten more attention.