Mozart piano sonatas Box question

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knotslip
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Mozart piano sonatas Box question

Post by knotslip » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:56 pm

Hello-

I would like to pick up a box that contains all or at least most of Mozart's piano sonatas and was wondering if anyone is familiar with and could recommend one of these (or possibly another set)?

http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Piano-Sona ... 461&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Complete-P ... 580&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Piano-Sona ... 608&sr=8-3

I'm leaning towards the Christoph Eschenbach set after reading reviews but I feinitely wanted to get opinions here first. They all receive decent reviews actually. Please recommend one of these or another in the same price rnage if you know of one...Thanks.

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Post by hangos » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:18 pm

There is a very favourably reviewed super-bargain set by Klara Wurtz on Brilliant Classics which you might want to consider too.

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Post by knotslip » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:02 pm

Thanks Hangos. Do you have any idea what the difference between these two listed on ArkivMusic's web site is? They look the same except for the cover art and the date.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/alb ... _id=100360


http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/alb ... _id=131855

Thanks.

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Post by Corlyss_D » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:05 pm

hangos wrote:There is a very favourably reviewed super-bargain set by Klara Wurtz on Brilliant Classics which you might want to consider too.
Yes, an excellent set. Well worth the money. I have the Perahia which I consider to be among the best available.

You couldn't go wrong with the Uchida. However, I would stay as far away from the Barenboim as possible - he's not as good a pianist as he is conductor. I don't know the Eschenbach.
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Post by gfweis » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:33 pm

I've read many raves about Wurtz, but haven't heard them. I also don't know the Eschenbach, but a person whose opinion I trust says he is a fine pianist. I find myself backing away from Barenboim when I hear him. I have heard several of the Uchida discs---I'm not too fond of them. Sometimes a bit precious, and I like a plainer style. The best overall set I've heard is the Philips Ingrid Haebler set, but it's pricey (http://www.crotchet.co.uk/4648502.html). The second best set I've know is Haebler's later transversal on Denon. I believe these have just been re-released in a budget- or mid-priced box. You might try to find them. You will love them. For a real bargain, consider the Walter Klien recordings on Vox. Excellent.
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Post by Corlyss_D » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:55 pm

gfweis wrote:I've read many raves about Wurtz, but haven't heard them. I also don't know the Eschenbach, but a person whose opinion I trust says he is a fine pianist. I find myself backing away from Barenboim when I hear him. I have heard several of the Uchida discs---I'm not too fond of them. Sometimes a bit precious, and I like a plainer style. The best overall set I've heard is the Philips Ingrid Haebler set, but it's pricey (http://www.crotchet.co.uk/4648502.html). The second best set I've know is Haebler's later transversal on Denon. I believe these have just been re-released in a budget- or mid-priced box. You might try to find them. You will love them. For a real bargain, consider the Walter Klien recordings on Vox. Excellent.
Wow! What are the chances of two different posters commenting on Haebler in one week! Sapphire mentioned her account of the Schubert sonatas, and now we hear about a complete Mozart set!

And Klien! Ward thought very highly of Klien's early survey of Schubert sonatas.
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Post by Chalkperson » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:33 pm

Eschenbach's Set is very good, but Uchida's is a classic, pass on Barenboim however...a lot of people like Clara Wurz but I prefer others, Lili Kraus's First Set, Alicia de Larrocha and the best bargain of all Walter Klein...

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Post by knotslip » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:27 pm

Very good. Thanks for the suggestions and opinions. As usual, I have a tough decision to make. I believe I will decide between the Eschenbach and the Wurtz and go with one. It sounds like either would be a good choice.

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Post by Ralph » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:31 pm

Wurtz is a true bargain and excellent but Uchida is my hands-down favorite (and I heard her perform all the sonatas in Alice Tully Hall too).
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Post by Chalkperson » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:55 pm

Ralph wrote:Wurtz is a true bargain and excellent but Uchida is my hands-down favorite (and I heard her perform all the sonatas in Alice Tully Hall too).
You can go with Eschenbach or Wurz but, remember, you will always wonder if you bought the right set...Uchida is Very Special...if you want Eschenbach's pianistic skills buy his Beethoven Twofer of the Late Piano Sonatas and Bagatelles on EMI, they will provide more rewards than his Mozart...

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Post by Corlyss_D » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:36 am

Mmmmm. I wonder what was in my breakfast cereal. Perahia did the complete concertos, not the sonatas. My error.
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Post by knotslip » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:41 am

Okay, now Uchida is looking like the one to go with.

Two questions - 1) How different will each of these be from each other (Will a newb like myself be able to hear a difference?)?
2) Are all recorded well with good sound quality?

Thanks. :-) This is so much fun...

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Post by Chalkperson » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:47 am

Corlyss_D wrote:Mmmmm. I wonder what was in my breakfast cereal. Perahia did the complete concertos, not the sonatas. My error.
Yes Corlyss, and I did not wish to point it out...that set of Concertos has just been remastered and is simply Stunning... :D

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Post by AndrewG » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:09 am

I happen to have most of the sets in my collection mentioned here. Here is my preference list:

Eschenbach
Haebler
Uchida
Klien
Wurtz

Just my $.02c.
Regards,

AndrewG

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Post by Ralph » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:13 am

AndrewG wrote:I happen to have most of the sets in my collection mentioned here. Here is my preference list:

Eschenbach
Haebler
Uchida
Klien
Wurtz

Just my $.02c.
*****
Andrew,

WELCOME! Hope you join us often!!!!!!
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Post by AndrewG » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:21 am

Thanks for the welcome, Ralph!

Believe it or not. I have been WITH this board for years and years. I was here during the CI days, probably even longer than that, I don't remember. I normally do not post as much as you experts. I still remember when Kwoon, the CD-collection King , was an active poster, etc. I have been reading this board daily to learn from all the experts here. Only recently I saw this Kawai piano thread prompted me want to post. (I have not posted there yet, LOL!)

Thanks again, Ralph!

AndrewG.
Regards,

AndrewG

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Post by knotslip » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:32 am

Thanks Andrew and welcome (to posting anyway) :-)

This is so difficult...As usual, there is no sure winner. The one many like is also not liked by many, and vice versa. I will just have to bite the bullet and pick one. I hope that I can purchase a second soon after and compare them myself. I will add most of these to my growing list of classical music recommendations.

Thanks again to everyone. I'll let you know what I end up buying...If I can decide soon.

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Post by gperkins151 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:23 am

knotslip wrote:Thanks Andrew and welcome (to posting anyway) :-)

This is so difficult...As usual, there is no sure winner. The one many like is also not liked by many, and vice versa. I will just have to bite the bullet and pick one. I hope that I can purchase a second soon after and compare them myself. I will add most of these to my growing list of classical music recommendations.

Thanks again to everyone. I'll let you know what I end up buying...If I can decide soon.
I recently uploaded 4 different finales to K 457 for a friend who was in the same quandary that you are in. Here's a link to the 4 files I uploaded.

The pianists are

1. Eschenbach
2. Klien
3. Richter
4. Uchida

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=4573 ... ecc1fe3f47
George

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Post by knotslip » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:09 pm

Thanks GPerkins. This helps a lot.

Anyone have the Wutz that they can contribute? I would love to hear that one before making my decision.

Thanks again.

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Post by Chalkperson » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:15 pm

knotslip wrote:Okay, now Uchida is looking like the one to go with.

Two questions - 1) How different will each of these be from each other (Will a newb like myself be able to hear a difference?)?
2) Are all recorded well with good sound quality?

Thanks. :-) This is so much fun...
They sound quite different, Eschenbach is more assertive and makes the Sonatas sound like they point forward to Bethoven, Uchida's have a little more magic and sparkle..you will certainly hear the differences, and I hope this helps, I am useless when it comes to describing what I like rather than the simpler, easier method of purely recommending discs...

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Post by Corlyss_D » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:56 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:Mmmmm. I wonder what was in my breakfast cereal. Perahia did the complete concertos, not the sonatas. My error.
Yes Corlyss, and I did not wish to point it out...that set of Concertos has just been remastered and is simply Stunning... :D

:lol: You should have, Chalkie. I don't mind being told I'm wrong when the facts are against me. Honest! :D My ignorance has resulted in the premature end of many a poorly thought-out procurement reform.
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Post by Corlyss_D » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:58 pm

AndrewG wrote:Thanks for the welcome, Ralph!

Believe it or not. I have been WITH this board for years and years. I was here during the CI days, probably even longer than that, I don't remember. I normally do not post as much as you experts. I still remember when Kwoon, the CD-collection King , was an active poster, etc. I have been reading this board daily to learn from all the experts here. Only recently I saw this Kawai piano thread prompted me want to post. (I have not posted there yet, LOL!)

Thanks again, Ralph!

AndrewG.
Well! A lurker teased out from behind the bushes! You are a triumph, Andrew! Welcome. Kick your shoes off and set a spell, old friend.
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Post by Chalkperson » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:50 pm

Welcome to our little Virtual Village, you lurked way longer than I did...i'm glad you came to visit...keep posting... :D

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Post by anasazi » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:17 pm

knotslip wrote:Thanks GPerkins. This helps a lot.

Anyone have the Wutz that they can contribute? I would love to hear that one before making my decision.

Thanks again.
I honestly can't contribute much, as I have not really heard much of the Uchida or Eisenbach recordings. I do have the Wurtz though. It is not dainty Mozart I suppose (for lack of a better way of expressing it) but it does not seem to be like Beethoven that much either. I enjoy listening to that set (as well as others).
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Post by slofstra » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:31 pm

knotslip,

Not what you asked, but I would skip the sonatas and spend your money on the concertos (Perahia's). :) Seriously, though, I am not that fond of many of the sonatas especially the earlier ones. I have the Uchida set. If you can find a previous thread on the Mozart sonatas someone (John F, I think) provided an opinion/assessment of the relative quality of each sonata. You may be further ahead with a selection. Although from a 'completist' or 'reference' point of view, perhaps you will want them all.
And, the sonatas are no match for the concertos, not that anyone is asking.

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Post by Chalkperson » Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:52 pm

slofstra wrote:knotslip,

Not what you asked, but I would skip the sonatas and spend your money on the concertos (Perahia's). :) Seriously, though, I am not that fond of many of the sonatas especially the earlier ones. I have the Uchida set. If you can find a previous thread on the Mozart sonatas someone (John F, I think) provided an opinion/assessment of the relative quality of each sonata. You may be further ahead with a selection. Although from a 'completist' or 'reference' point of view, perhaps you will want them all.
And, the sonatas are no match for the concertos, not that anyone is asking.
This is a very good point, I like the sonatas, and own many Complete Sets but Henry is right, buy the Concertos, you will get more enjoyment from that Box...and it's a stunning set...

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Post by Holden Fourth » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:00 pm

slofstra wrote:knotslip,

Seriously, though, I am not that fond of many of the sonatas especially the earlier ones.
This is exactly how I felt until I heard Klara Wurtz play them.

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Post by knotslip » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:19 pm

I will definitely check out the concertos...but no reason to pass up the sonatas. I love solo piano and I have already heard several of Mozart's solo piano works that I like. I will look into the concertos next...Any recommendations as to what sets are good?

I just purchased all of Rachmoninov's concertos and all I can say is Wow!. I had never heard any of his material and I think my jaw was hanging open during the entire third and possibly the second and fourth as well. That is some amazing stuff. What other Rach works should I get if I like his concertos?

Thanks everyone for the suggestions as usual, you are all a great help and a wealth of information (sometimes too much) :-)

Thanks.

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Post by Philoctetes » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:52 pm

Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
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Post by premont » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:44 pm

Philoctetes wrote:Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
Are you serious??

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Post by Philoctetes » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:45 pm

premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
Are you serious??
Of course, I find the set very interesting to hear. Never a dull moment.
"And the wife looks at her husband one night at a party, and loves him no more.
The energy leaves the wine, and the minister falls leaving the church."
Bly

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Post by premont » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:50 pm

Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
Are you serious??
Of course, I find the set very interesting to hear. Never a dull moment.
Well, interesting, but that is not enough. Music must talk to the heart too.

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Post by Philoctetes » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:52 pm

premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
Are you serious??
Of course, I find the set very interesting to hear. Never a dull moment.
Well, interesting, but that is not enough. Music must talk to the heart too.
Interesting is more than enough for me, but I don't value music all that highly.

Very rarely has music actually talked to my heart, if ever.
"And the wife looks at her husband one night at a party, and loves him no more.
The energy leaves the wine, and the minister falls leaving the church."
Bly

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Post by premont » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:01 pm

Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
Are you serious??
Of course, I find the set very interesting to hear. Never a dull moment.
Well, interesting, but that is not enough. Music must talk to the heart too.
Interesting is more than enough for me, but I don't value music all that highly.

Very rarely has music actually talked to my heart, if ever.
I do not doubt, that this is true, and you are for that reason a rather atypical listener. Perhaps you ought to take this fact into consideration in advising others.

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Post by Philoctetes » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:02 pm

premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
Are you serious??
Of course, I find the set very interesting to hear. Never a dull moment.
Well, interesting, but that is not enough. Music must talk to the heart too.
Interesting is more than enough for me, but I don't value music all that highly.

Very rarely has music actually talked to my heart, if ever.
I do not doubt, that this is true, and you are for that reason a rather atypical listener. Perhaps you ought to take this fact into consideration in advising others.
Quite true.
Though some other great sets were already suggested.
I think Gould is at least worth a listen to anyone who is into Mozart.
I think his voice is worth hearing.
Not his actual voice though.
That just gets annoying after a while.
"And the wife looks at her husband one night at a party, and loves him no more.
The energy leaves the wine, and the minister falls leaving the church."
Bly

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Post by premont » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:06 pm

Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote: Are you serious??
Of course, I find the set very interesting to hear. Never a dull moment.
Well, interesting, but that is not enough. Music must talk to the heart too.
Interesting is more than enough for me, but I don't value music all that highly.

Very rarely has music actually talked to my heart, if ever.
I do not doubt, that this is true, and you are for that reason a rather atypical listener. Perhaps you ought to take this fact into consideration in advising others.
Quite true.
Though some other great sets were already suggested.
I think Gould is at least worth a listen to anyone who is into Mozart.
I think his voice is worth hearing.
Not his actual voice though.
That just gets annoying after a while.
Agreed.

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Post by CharmNewton » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:17 pm

premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
Are you serious??
Of course, I find the set very interesting to hear. Never a dull moment.
Well, interesting, but that is not enough. Music must talk to the heart too.
Gould often plays very beautifully in the slow movements. And Gould's Presto is really presto. He may be most controversial in the first movements of some of these sonatas, but his playing is never careless or sloppy or overly dainty. If Gould really hated Mozart, he didn't have to record them--Gould only recorded what he wanted to record.

With the increasing number of historically informed performances, these do not sound as different to me as they did when they were new.

John

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Post by knotslip » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:24 pm

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I think I have decided to go with the Klara Wurtz set. It seems I can't go wrong regardless of which set I get but I have read many good reviews here and at places like Archivemusic.com on the Wurtz cycle. Amazon had some bad reviews of the Uchida set.

Thanks for the replies.

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Post by premont » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:31 pm

CharmNewton wrote: Gould often plays very beautifully in the slow movements. And Gould's Presto is really presto. He may be most controversial in the first movements of some of these sonatas, but his playing is never careless or sloppy or overly dainty. If Gould really hated Mozart, he didn't have to record them--Gould only recorded what he wanted to record.
This does not necessary imply, that he loved all the music he recorded.
CharmNewton wrote: With the increasing number of historically informed performances, these do not sound as different to me as they did when they were new.
John
My problem is, that I haven´t heard his Mozart, only the lions share of his Bach and Beethoven. But the mere thought of Gould being anything in the direction of HIP makes me really laugh loud and long.

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Post by Chalkperson » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:43 pm

Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
Are you serious??
Of course, I find the set very interesting to hear. Never a dull moment.
The first time I heard Glen Gould was in a Record Shop in Toronto, my guess is that it was 1976, it was a Music and Arts disc, a live recording of some Mozart Sonatas, I had never heard anything like it...it was the fastest playing I had ever heard, but far from the best Mozart, or his best either...I love GG and have everything he ever did, but to reccommend his Mozart, no way...now his Haydn is a completely different matter...

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Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:24 am

premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:
premont wrote:
Philoctetes wrote:Go with Gould for the Mozart Sonata set.
Are you serious??
Of course, I find the set very interesting to hear. Never a dull moment.
Well, interesting, but that is not enough. Music must talk to the heart too.
Amen. Gould is not for the first-time Mozart oeuvre listener. One should never start out with him on any composer, IMO.
Chalkie wrote:The first time I heard Glen Gould was in a Record Shop in Toronto, my guess is that it was 1976, it was a Music and Arts disc, a live recording of some Mozart Sonatas, I had never heard anything like it.
Precisely my point. Gould in many instances was reacting against the accepted interpretations. One ought to at least know what the accepted interpretations are before subjecting oneself to his idiosyncratic . . . um . . . ah . . . playing.
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Post by Philoctetes » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:47 am

I suggested Gould, as I think I may have stated perviously, because other sets, more conventional in their nature, had already been suggested. I think the Gould set is one that should be listened to because it helps gain perspective, in fact I'd say that from what little I've seen of this forum, you could mos def use the Gould Mozart.
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The energy leaves the wine, and the minister falls leaving the church."
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Brendan

Post by Brendan » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:13 pm

Eschenbach and/or Uchida for a box set.

But for the best (IMHO), collect Clara Haskil's recordings of Mozart.

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Post by Chalkperson » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:55 pm

Brendan wrote:But for the best (IMHO), collect Clara Haskil's recordings of Mozart.
I just found a new Cara Haskil disc today, L' Orchestre de Chambre de Lausanne conducted by Victor Desarzens , Mozart Piano Concertos Nos. 19+24..truly wonderful playing...1956+57 on Claves...

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Post by slofstra » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:23 pm

Corlyss_D wrote: Amen. Gould is not for the first-time Mozart oeuvre listener. One should never start out with him on any composer, IMO.
For Orlando Gibbons, you could start with Gould.

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:29 pm

Chalkperson wrote:I just found a new Cara Haskil disc today, L' Orchestre de Chambre de Lausanne conducted by Victor Desarzens , Mozart Piano Concertos Nos. 19+24..truly wonderful playing...1956+57 on Claves...
Thank you for the information. I'll order it post haste.

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Post by Chalkperson » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:54 pm

slofstra wrote:For Orlando Gibbons, you could start with Gould.
You could, but I would start with Christopher Hogwood actually...

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Post by slofstra » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:00 pm

I think I already know what the answer is going to be but I'll ask it anyway: Worth getting?

Image

At another bargain price - $33. I have to get an order together with the Canadian dollar now at par. What a great confluence of events, Canadian dollar at par, bargain sets galore.

And I've mentioned it in another thread, but THIS will be OUT on TUESDAY. I see amazon has it up for pre-order now.

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80 CD Glenn Gould omnibus edition, about $220.

CharmNewton
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Post by CharmNewton » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:37 am

Chalkperson wrote:
slofstra wrote:For Orlando Gibbons, you could start with Gould.
You could, but I would start with Christopher Hogwood actually...
I didn't know that Hogwood has recorded Gibbons, but I see this is a recent disc. I have his 4 LP set of William Byrd's Lady Neville's Book.

When Gould made his Consorte of Musick album in 1971, there was very little of Gibbons or Byrd's keyboard music available on record. It remains a favorite.

John

Corlyss_D
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Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:27 am

slofstra wrote:For Orlando Gibbons, you could start with Gould.
I you were a masochist . . .
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

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