mahler's symphonies

annalisa_moretti · Post by **annalisa_moretti** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:39 am

which symphony do u guys all like best? i have yet to hear them all. i have heard the first and the ninth, and i like the 2nd and 4th movement of the first, and i like the ninth in general.

Post by **Lance** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:46 am

First of all, WELCOME to CMG! Glad you made to our newly refurbished site. Just WAIT until you hear the Third Symphony of Mahler! You're in for a wonderful mezzo-soprano part, and and incredible work by the posthorn!

stenka razin · Post by **stenka razin** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:21 am

The Symphony No. 5 is my favorite. Once I heard the opening funeral march 1st movement, I was hooked for life. I love all of Mahler's Symphonies equally, but, the 5th wins by a razor thin hair.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:35 am

It was a close call between 5 and 9, but I went with 9. The first would round out my top three.

sfbugala · Post by **sfbugala** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:57 am

I voted, but it's tough to come up with a favorite. Sometimes, I'm convinced that the first movement to the Mahler Seventh is the best movement he wrote. Give them all a try.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:59 am

A tough one, indeed -- for me, it's between the First and the Third. Both embody the optimistic qualities of early Mahler that I really enjoy (ah, hear the unabashed loudness!); I'll have to give the edge to the Third, though. That first movement is a real roller coaster -- I veritable symphony in its own right.

Heck148 · Post by **Heck148** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:22 pm

I like them all, tho not equally.

5,6 and 9 are magnificent works. #9 is one of the great masterpieces in any and all of music...

My very first exposure to Mahler was Sym #2 - specifically, when the NYPO [playing as Columbia SO] performed the first mvt on TV when JFK was assassinated.

it was overwhelming...I quickly acquired Walter's recording and listened intensely in its entirety for weeks, months to come...probably drove my parents crazy!!

I've loved Mahler's music ever since...great composer, great orchestrator. as a premier conductor, he dealt with orchestras constantly. he knew what would sound, what would work, what wouldn't work..
by the time he got to Symphony #9, DLvDE - the orchestration is perfected to an astonishing degree...every line, every part is audible, even in the big tuttis....tough to bring off, hard to do in places, but it does work, given the best players...

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:42 pm

Welcome to CMG, this is a GREAT site.

Late last year I started listening to Mahler's music, it was with von Karajan's recording of Mahler's Fifth so that's probably still my favourite for now. I do though listen to the First (Kubelik/BRSO) and the Fourth (several different versions) most of the time. I LOVE them all (except the Eigth). Anyway, I voted for the First and the Fifth. If you hold a poll again in a few months time it will probably be a different two.

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:49 pm

Difficult Choice, the Fifth for sure, and then the First, which just nudged out the Third and the Ninth...

TopoGigio · Post by **TopoGigio** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:11 pm

OurBelovedChief wrote: First of all, WELCOME to CMG! Glad you made to our newly refurbished site. Just WAIT until you hear the Third Symphony of Mahler! You're in for a wonderful mezzo-soprano part, and and incredible work by the posthorn!

Mitropoulos died while the rehearsing of 3th in LaScala...
I vote for the Titan

hangos · Post by **hangos** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:22 pm

I started with No.2 (Solti/LSO opening grabbed my attention!) which I never listen to these days.
Of the early symphonies I prefer 1 and 4 as they are less bombastic than 2 and 3.
I don't like 8 much, but love 7,9 and 6 in that order.
I think 7 is vastly underrated - in the right hands (Boulez, Abbado) it is a facinating work (but I usually stop at the end of the 4th movement!)
I don't like bombast, but I do like Mahler otherwise! Some people find it all bombastic, but .......

Martin

Donaldopato · Post by **Donaldopato** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:38 pm

I enjoy the 5th and return to it time and time again. However, I have a passion and almost a fanaticism for the 10th as realized by Cooke, Carpenter, et. al. I believe that if Mahler lived to complete it, the 10th would have been his masterpiece. Not all agree with me, but there is something in that piece that speaks to my soul like no other music does.

lmpower · Post by **lmpower** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:20 pm

It seems someone agrees with me on the tenth. The material is truly heartrending. It doesn't bother me than much that Mahler never put in the final touches.

RebLem · Post by **RebLem** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:47 pm

My favorite is the 2nd. Somehow, the idea of Resurrection appeals to me.

How about you? For years, my favorites were the Bernstein and Klemperer recordings, which are at interpretive extremes. Bernstein exaggerates tempo and dynamic changes in an effort to sustain interest over the long haul in such a massive work; Klemperer tended to flatten them out and de-emphasize them, creating a sense of granitic monumentality. Then, there were others that were good MOR performances, from Bruno Walter to Leonard Slatkin.

But lately, as I have acquired more sets, there are two to which I return most often--Segerstam, which is hard to find these days, and Kubelik, which is not, and which is available at a budget price, and comes in the slimest, most easily storable box of all the Mahler symphony sets. Its a real winner, all around.

And, btw, welcome to our little slightly but charmingly dysfunctional community.

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:53 pm

RebLem wrote:My favorite is the 2nd. Somehow, the idea of Resurrection appeals to me. How about you? For years, my favorites were the Bernstein and Klemperer recordings, which are at interpretive extremes. Bernstein exaggerates tempo and dynamic changes in an effort to sustain interest over the long haul in such a massive work; Klemperer tended to flatten them out and de-emphasize them, creating a sense of granitic monumentality. Then, there were others that were good MOR performances, from Bruno Walter to Leonard Slatkin.

But lately, as I have acquired more sets, there are two to which I return most often--Segerstam, which is hard to find these days, and Kubelik, which is not, and which is available at a budget price, and comes in the slimest, most easily storable box of all the Mahler symphony sets. Its a real winner, all around.

And, btw, welcome to our little slightly but charmingly dysfunctional community.

I love Kubelik's box set but I haven't warmed to his Mahler 2 yet. I must listen to it again. My favourite No. 2 is Solti with the LSO, it's wonderful throughout.

CharmNewton · Post by **CharmNewton** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:00 pm

Heck148 wrote: it was overwhelming...I quickly acquired Walter's recording and listened intensely in its entirety for weeks, months to come...probably drove my parents crazy!!

No other recording of the many I've heard captures the snarl in the trombones in the climax of the Scherzo as Walter's does. After learning the work on Bernstein's first New York recording, Walter's recording was an ear opener and demonstrated how well the N.Y. Philharmonic could play. After all these years, it still sounds good too.

John

CharmNewton · Post by **CharmNewton** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:18 pm

I voted for 8 and 9. The 8th is really a beautiful work. In it Mahler uses texts about one thousand years apart, those of Part I posing many of the questions he had been struggling with throughout his life and that he finally answered for himself with the theme of redemption in Part II. It is the one work of Mahler that was embraced by audiences from its very first performance. It also is translucently orchestrated, shimmering with color and delicacy and the writing for voice is every bit as magnificent, but it takes really good singers to perform it.

The 9th is an awesome masterpiece. I had the opportunity to hear it performed here in Portland a couple of months ago, and I'd urge any person with the opportunity to hear not to pass it up.

John

Donaldopato · Post by **Donaldopato** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:03 pm

lmpower wrote:It seems someone agrees with me on the tenth. The material is truly heartrending. It doesn't bother me than much that Mahler never put in the final touches.

Always wonderful to find a fellow 10th fan!

John F · Post by **John F** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:06 am

Has to be the 9th, which for me is the most beautiful and profound music Mahler ever wrote. A second choice wouldn't be any of the numbered symphonies but "Das Lied von der Erde," which has been described as an unnamed symphony and may have been thought of as such by Mahler himself. But the 9th comes first.

mnmleung · Post by **mnmleung** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:04 am

I grew very fond of Mahler's 6th in the 1980s. I mostly listened to Karajan and Abbado. I also have Boulez on DG.
9th would be my second choice, closely followed by 3rd.

val · Post by **val** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:14 am

My favorite is the 6th. To me, it is the more balanced, with a clear structure.

Jack Kelso · Post by **Jack Kelso** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:47 am

Mahler's 2nd is truly stupendous. Walter or Solti for me, although I feel Walter puts in more spirituality. (I feel Solti came up a bit short on this quality---no matter WHO he was interpreting).

I learned the 1st from Boult on Everest, but there are now so many fine ones---I'd stick with Kubelik for most of Mahler; I love the 5th with Levine---but Maazel is also excellent. Haitink for the 4th!

The 6th is underrated, seems to be Mahler's answer to Bruckner's 8th.

One well-known critic commented that Mahler said pretty much all he had to say in the first six symphonies. I, too, feel that those are his best.....

Tschüß!
Jack

pizza · Post by **pizza** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:17 am

Jack Kelso wrote:One well-known critic commented that Mahler said pretty much all he had to say in the first six symphonies.

Sounds as if that critic said pretty much all he had to say before he said that.

Ricordanza · Post by **Ricordanza** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:45 am

Very tough to pick a favorite. I picked the Ninth, but if you had caught me after a performance of the Fifth or Sixth, I would have chosen one of them.

pizza · Post by **pizza** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:49 am

Ricordanza wrote:Very tough to pick a favorite. I picked the Ninth, but if you had caught me after a performance of the Fifth or Sixth, I would have chosen one of them.

Wasn't there a song like that from Finian's Rainbow? "If I'm not near the girl I love I love the girl I'm near!

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:03 am

The 9th is the most powerful and evocative for me but ALL of Mahler's symphonies move me deeply.

annalisa_moretti · Post by **annalisa_moretti** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:08 am

Lance wrote:First of all, WELCOME to CMG! Glad you made to our newly refurbished site. Just WAIT until you hear the Third Symphony of Mahler! You're in for a wonderful mezzo-soprano part, and and incredible work by the posthorn!

oh thanks for the warm greeting. i appreciate that :3 well i barely even knew about Mahler until my friend and i had some argument about who wrote this piece (it was a weird argument) and that's when i first heard about Mahler.. i asked my friend to get me pics at an exhibition by Mussorgsky, but my friend just gave me one of his own cds, which ended up being 'Mahler symphony #1' and i loved it cuz it was different than every other classical song that i've heard :3 anyways can't wait to get more mahler cds.. well that's probably after i get all of the libretti that i want to read

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:57 pm

annalisa_moretti wrote:my friend just gave me one of his own cds, which ended up being 'Mahler symphony #1' and i loved it cuz it was different than every other classical song that i've heard :3 anyways can't wait to get more mahler cds.. well that's probably after i get all of the libretti that i want to read

If you are fond of Mahler's First Symphony then Rafael Kubelik's Mahler One is well worth having, it's paired on this CD with Songs of a Wayfarer :

Gustav Mahler: Symphony No. 1 / Songs of a Wayfarer -
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau /
Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra / Rafael Kubelik

Heck148 · Post by **Heck148** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:18 pm

interesting polling results!!

some 26% of the respondents choose Symphony #9 as their favorite.

the Mahler 9th is truly one of music's greatest masterpieces. it speaks well of the participants of this board that so many rate it at the top...

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:26 pm

Heck148 wrote:interesting polling results!!

some 26% of the respondents choose Symphony #9 as their favorite.

the Mahler 9th is truly one of music's greatest masterpieces. it speaks well of the participants of this board that so many rate it at the top...

And a number of us, myself included, nearly voted for it...ultimately I picked 1+5 as they paired together better on my island...

Reed · Post by **Reed** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:50 pm

I was somewhat surprised (I don't know why) that 9 is leading the poll. That work, which contains all of Mahler in one work, has to be my favorite symphony of his. That and Das Lied are the two Mahler works that I have returned to most often.

Of the earlier works, #2 is very dramatic and involving. If you want a good performance in modern (SACD) sound, try Fischer with Budapest. I hadn't heard the work in awhile, didn't know that I needed to revisit it just yet, but put this on and played in twice through, it was so good. Nice to find a new (or new to onself) performance of a piece that's so good it brings you back to the piece and reminds you of how great it is, or even reveals to you that it's a better piece than you thought it was.

Wallingford · Post by **Wallingford** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:03 pm

First.

Jack Kelso · Post by **Jack Kelso** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:03 am

Reed wrote:I was somewhat surprised (I don't know why) that 9 is leading the poll. That work, which contains all of Mahler in one work, has to be my favorite symphony of his. That and Das Lied are the two Mahler works that I have returned to most often.

Of the earlier works, #2 is very dramatic and involving. If you want a good performance in modern (SACD) sound, try Fischer with Budapest. I hadn't heard the work in awhile, didn't know that I needed to revisit it just yet, but put this on and played in twice through, it was so good. Nice to find a new (or new to onself) performance of a piece that's so good it brings you back to the piece and reminds you of how great it is, or even reveals to you that it's a better piece than you thought it was.

Fischer....ADAM Fischer?! Two years ago we experienced his Mahler 2nd live in Mannheim (front-row center) and it was a real treat---with the Sinfonieorchester Rheinland-Pfalz! This work seems to be a specialty of his.

Tschüß!
Jack

CharmNewton · Post by **CharmNewton** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:40 am

Interesting is the 5th coming in second after the 9th (although that could change with a vote or two). The 5th was the most problematic for Mahler himself and he constantly re-touched the orchestration up until the time of his death. In my opinion, it takes a really firm conductorial grip (ala von Dohnanyi) to hold the work together. I believe the second movement is something really new in the symphonic literature, where it resounds like a Finale itself, Mahler then using the Scherzo to completely change the tone and character of work and give it continuity. That second movement is a pretty tough one to follow.

John

Jack Kelso · Post by **Jack Kelso** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:27 am

CharmNewton wrote:Interesting is the 5th coming in second after the 9th (although that could change with a vote or two). The 5th was the most problematic for Mahler himself and he constantly re-touched the orchestration up until the time of his death. In my opinion, it takes a really firm conductorial grip (ala von Dohnanyi) to hold the work together. I believe the second movement is something really new in the symphonic literature, where it resounds like a Finale itself, Mahler then using the Scherzo to completely change the tone and character of work and give it continuity. That second movement is a pretty tough one to follow.

John

I haven't heard the Dohnanyi (the "von" is not part of the last name in German) but I like both Levine and Maazel VERY much in the 5th. Do you mean the 2nd movement is "tough" to follow as music---or tough to beat?

Tschüß!
Jack

DavidRoss · Post by **DavidRoss** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:03 am

Yippee! Someone else finally chose the 4th! Who is this master of discernment and refined taste?

Heck148 · Post by **Heck148** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:09 am

CharmNewton wrote:Interesting is the 5th coming in second after the 9th (although that could change with a vote or two). The 5th was the most problematic for Mahler himself and he constantly re-touched the orchestration up until the time of his death.

I think he had a tougher time with the 7th....the 5th flows along wonderfully, and is structurally quite coherent -

mvts I-II, III, IV-V provide a sort of three part organization...

the finale really tolls along, unlike the fragmented, episodic finale of #7...

Febnyc · Post by **Febnyc** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:18 am

For me it's the Second.

As a matter of fact, Mahler's Second Symphony could be my single favorite piece of music.

This feeling could be justified simply by the last five-or-so minutes of the work.

The final movement, a monumental view of the possibilities of resurrection and their glory, is, in itself, longer than Beethoven's entire Fifth Symphony. There are so many magnificent elements that it's hard to use individual examples to defend my choice.

However, the power of this work comes across better in a live performance - seeing the seated chorus enter in hushed tones and, later, the astounding moment when they rise, ready to bring us along through the cataclysmic final pages. I love the way the soloist joins with, and then sings above, the chorus - and then the build up to the shattering Eb of "Auferstehen!" always leaves me breathless.

Mahler's entire view of humanity, life, death and what might follow is summed up in this work and, especially, in its fifth movement.

I listen to it at least once a week and have seen countless performances. The best of all was in the 1999 Salzburg Music Festival when Simon Rattle lead the Berlin Philharmonic in the most magnificent concert I've ever attended. In the finale, he added about 6 smallish trumpets (flugelhorns?), with the instrumentalists standing along the sides of the stage. The additional brass for the shattering climaxes which occur during that movement left the audience stunned - and for about a full 30 seconds or more after the last organ chords faded away - there was complete silence and no one moved. Amazing!

Reed · Post by **Reed** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:47 am

Jack,

No, IVAN Fischer recorded the Mahler 2, on Channel Classics. You mean, both brothers do a mean M2? Wow, tres cool.

TopoGigio · Post by **TopoGigio** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:33 pm

Febnyc wrote: I listen to it at least once a week and have seen countless performances. The best of all was in the 1999 Salzburg Music Festival when Simon Rattle lead the Berlin Philharmonic in the most magnificent concert I've ever attended. In the finale, he added about 6 smallish trumpets (flugelhorns?), with the instrumentalists standing along the sides of the stage. The additional brass for the shattering climaxes which occur during that movement left the audience stunned - and for about a full 30 seconds or more after the last organ chords faded away - there was complete silence and no one moved. Amazing!

I hate 2th... I hate Rattle... Public was Silent,yes, no Resurrection...

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:43 pm

But, Topo... The horns... The bells... The grey curls... What's not to love?

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:53 pm

TopoGigio wrote:I hate 2th... I hate Rattle... Public was Silent,yes, no Resurrection...

I am so pleased to hear that Topo, I hate Rattie too...

dirkronk · Post by **dirkronk** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:03 pm

I chose the 4th. True to the rules set out, I like it best. Do I think it's as "great" as some of the other compositions? Maybe not. But I can and do listen to it more than any other Mahler symphony. I have more copies of it than any other, too. It's accessible even to most newbies, short enough to hear in one sitting (with longer Mahler and Bruckner pieces, I still listen on the installment plan) and, when well done, can easily convince you of its beauty and depth. YMMV, of course...and judging from the results, that's obviously the case for most of you!

Cheers,

Dirk

Heck148 · Post by **Heck148** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:45 pm

dirkronk wrote:(with longer Mahler and Bruckner pieces, I still listen on the installment plan)

me, too. I'll listen to 1 or 2 mvts at a listening...

same with opera -I'll listen to 1 complete act, or complete scenes at a time...

Burbage · Post by **Burbage** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:39 pm

I like the Third best. It well repays the time spent, and it seems to have everything in it (except cowbells). The sixth is my second favourite, and good for cowbells, but the hammer issue can be a bit distracting.

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:44 pm

TopoGigio wrote:
Febnyc wrote: I listen to it at least once a week and have seen countless performances. The best of all was in the 1999 Salzburg Music Festival when Simon Rattle lead the Berlin Philharmonic in the most magnificent concert I've ever attended. In the finale, he added about 6 smallish trumpets (flugelhorns?), with the instrumentalists standing along the sides of the stage. The additional brass for the shattering climaxes which occur during that movement left the audience stunned - and for about a full 30 seconds or more after the last organ chords faded away - there was complete silence and no one moved. Amazing!
I hate 2th... I hate Rattle... Public was Silent,yes, no Resurrection...

Topo, you hate the Second? Why oh why?

Heck148 · Post by **Heck148** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:47 pm

Burbage wrote: The sixth is my second favourite, and good for cowbells, but the hammer issue can be a bit distracting.

#6 is a great piece, but I have to take it in small doses....it is such a downer...I voted for 9 and 5, but on a different day I would vote for 9 and 6.

TopoGigio · Post by **TopoGigio** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:20 pm

Hi, Sean, my hate-motif is the very same love-motif as well expressed by Febnyc

Febnyc wrote: The final movement, a monumental view of the possibilities of resurrection and their glory, is, in itself, longer than Beethoven's entire Fifth Symphony. There are so many magnificent elements that it's hard to use individual examples to defend my choice.
However, the power of this work comes across better in a live performance - seeing the seated chorus enter in hushed tones and, later, the astounding moment when they rise, ready to bring us along through the cataclysmic final pages. I love the way the soloist joins with, and then sings above, the chorus - and then the build up to the shattering Eb of "Auferstehen!" always leaves me breathless.
Mahler's entire view of humanity, life, death and what might follow is summed up in this work and, especially, in its fifth movement.

DavidRoss · Post by **DavidRoss** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:01 pm

Febnyc wrote:For me it's the Second.

I chose the 2nd, too, along with the 4th. To me, the 2nd is the most majestic and it damned near carries its own weight all the way through. The 4th is the loveliest and least overblown.

I don't have Lennie's DGG recording of the 2nd with the NYPO. What do the Mahler fans here think of this recording?

Jack Kelso · Post by **Jack Kelso** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:09 am

Febnyc wrote:In the finale, he added about 6 smallish trumpets (flugelhorns?), with the instrumentalists standing along the sides of the stage. The additional brass for the shattering climaxes which occur during that movement left the audience stunned - and for about a full 30 seconds or more after the last organ chords faded away - there was complete silence and no one moved. Amazing!

I think the "smallish trumpets" are probably cornets. Jazz musician "Teddy" Buckner played one in the 1960's---and it was a fad for a while. A Flügelhorn---I believe---is a smaller precursor to the French horn. What's your take on Bruno Walter's Mahler 2nd?

Tschüß!
Jack

which mahler symphony do u like best?

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