WHO MADE YOU REALLY LISTEN?

[hangos]

Before I listened to Ligeti's music I thought I had learnt how to listen - after all, I had listened my way through Bartok's string quartets and grown to love nos. 3,4 and 5 most of all
I think it was Ligeti's cello concerto, with its plethora of pianissimo, which made me really listen ; it was a sense that every note counted and mattered, like listening to a series of whispers.And something about the piece made me want to know what came in the next bar, so it wasn't an excruciating type of concentration on my part (btw, I am not musically literate)
After my immersion in Ligeti's music, I revisited Webern, whose music I had previously dismissed as random incomprehensibility - after listening to so much Ligeti it suddenly made a lot more sense and I was able to "follow" it to some degree and actually enjoy it (especially all those beautifully limpid and crystalline textures)
God, does this post sound pretentious!!!
Have you had a similar moment of epiphany, be it via a certain performance or via revisiting a composer whose music you had previously dismissed? I'm sure you have, and I'm equally sure that it would make for an interesting thread
Martin

[absinthe]

Difficult question: I've been mixed up technically with music somewhat, partly developing an aural imagination so I'm often inwardly listening to things yet to be scored but probably won't be! Sometimes they do.
I give this preamble to explain my unfortunate propensity for pulling something to pieces to see how the composer did it! Which is a different kind of listening from "just listening" and finding my response to be something inner, spiritual perhaps, in a big way and usually precluding the ability of words to describe.

But I think it has to be the first movement from Bax's 3rd Symphony - in particular the transitions between first and second subjects. Without speculating on what grabbed Bax to write such music, it's a symphony of terrific contrasts: violence and drive sharply contrasted with tranquillity - uneasy tranquillity at times. Each movement has this contrast though the second is more gentle about it. But it was the first -
the frenzied soaring to the first climax to winding down to a beautiful passage for 5 solo violins...then the muted, sighing harmony of the second subject.

Though I have the score, I never dared try to take this work to pieces.

I'd already heard many works, mostly modern, but the Bax is where that apocalypsette happened.

[Ralph]

Toscanini in his radio broadcasts from Studio 8-H.

[dirkronk]

Mengelberg. His recordings of the Beethoven sym. 5 and Tchaikovsky sym. 5, through distinctive phrasing of both the "big tunes" and especially bringing up the prominence of secondary musical lines, made me love those warhorses once more...at a time when I thought I'd NEVER want to hear them again. And in other works, he's scarcely less revelatory--but it's those two specific pieces that gave me my first taste.

Schnabel with Susskind/Philharmonia in Mozart's piano cto. 20. This was the first historic performance, on a Vox Turnabout LP, that provided such an impressive performance that I was able to "listen through" the sonic hash and enjoy the presentation. Prior to that, I was a rapid audiophile with no use for old pre-stereo recordings. Boy, did THAT ever change in the years that followed.


Dirk

[anasazi]

This may sound self-serving, but it was actually my own playing the piano that finally, and only after 40 years of doing it, got me to appreciate what J.S. Bach's music could mean to me. Over years, I have heard Gould, Tureck, many wonderful musicians. I'm not even close to them, that's not what I mean. Rather than listening to someone else, however brilliant, or being really involved with the music myself just made the difference. Maybe if I could name but one CD that was kind of important to me, it would be Leon Fleisher's "Two Hands" recording on which he plays both Myra Hess's transcription of "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring", and also Egon Petri's transcripion of "Sheep May Safely Graze".

Bach's music, at least on keyboard, is so different for me finally. I can make it through most of the 48 and most of the inventions, etc. It finally kind of clicked, but only in the past three or four years. Now I hate to let a day go by without playing some of my favorite Bach pieces.

[Teresa B]

This may sound self-serving, but it was actually my own playing the piano that finally, and only after 40 years of doing it, got me to appreciate what J.S. Bach's music could mean to me.

Bach's music, at least on keyboard, is so different for me finally. I can make it through most of the 48 and most of the inventions, etc. It finally kind of clicked, but only in the past three or four years. Now I hate to let a day go by without playing some of my favorite Bach pieces.

I don't think you sound self-serving. Any musician, amateur or pro, must listen to him/herself carefully and much more intently than when listening for enjoyment. Not doing so results in not-so-good playing (I know this well, I have a lot of experience with it )

Bach especially (and BTW, I am impressed by you getting through all the 48!) requires that you listen to the separate voices you are playing simultaneously with hearing the whole--a near impossibility! I have found that to get a Bach fugue down, I must listen first to one voice as I practice it, then do the 2nd voice, etc. I then put it together, practicing sections (or the whole piece) while zeroing in the listening to one voice at a time, alternately. Finally, something coherent comes out (with luck ) like an emergent phenomenon. Only then can I "hear" the whole while still keeping attention on the parts. I suspect that before it "clicked" for you, you may have not quite reached that emergent stage. (Wonder what Bach would think of this theory?)

All the best,
Teresa

[Lance]

It was the late pianist, Ethel Newcomb, a Theodor Leschetizky student and eventually his assistant. My parents used to take us to her home in Whitney Point, NY; she was then very elderly. Sometimes I would sit in on someone's lesson (this was when I was a very young lad). While one of her comments may be considered "routine," I do not find that all students do it enough or even think about it. Her comment was, simply, "Listen to what you are playing ... listen to your sound." She pounded this into their heads. If I was paying for piano lessons, this would have been one of the best things she could have taught me. Then she sat down and played the Kreisleriana of Schumann on her ivory-coloured oversized special Steinway concert grand. I learned what sensitive-conscious playing could be and how it could bring music to full bloom, and I observed how she accomplished her magnificent tone, imbuing the music with such expression and feeling that the memory remains these decades later. It was a lesson for all time. Newcomb wrote a book, Leschetizky As I Knew Him, first published by Doubleday and reprinted by Dacapo Press. I'm not sure if the book is still being made available, but it's a treasure and would be mandatory reading for students if I was their teacher.

ANOTHER PERSON who taught me to really listen is Harris Goldsmith, the pianist and music critic who is, himself, a wonderful pianist. Harris was one of the finest writers (for High-Fidelity magazine) where you could actually learn about music just by reading his authoritative reviews, but I had times when Harris and I could listen to music together in my studio and could talk about music. I also prepared his piano for concerts on occasion.

[Corlyss_D]

My mother. I wanted to love what she loved.

[Lance]

My mother. I wanted to love what she loved.

And I think you have accomplished that. I recall your references to the early British/American Columbia releases of Debussy as performed by Walter Gieseking. Wasn't it Alicia [Corlyss's mother] who loved that music-making as well? But I loved your comment ... it's from the heart, and she would be proud and happy you made that statement!

Hmm, I think I shall now retire. It's near 2:00 a.m., but I am going to enjoy a couple of toasted slices of Pepperidge Farm® cinnamon/brown sugar bread with large doses of Brummel & Brown's yogurt butter (less calories!). Sound good?

[Holden Fourth]

We talk about moments of epiphany but this was special to me and made me re-evaluate what makes some musical performances special. One of the things I've done is coach gymnastics and my preference was teaching the basics and therefore working with the younger children. One of the venues the Gym Club used was a school hall and nearly all school halls have a piano. One day one of the gymnasts, an 8 year old arrived early, sat down at the piano and played Fur Elise. What I heard was not the usual hackneyed childlike progression through the work but a performance that made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. I play well but couldn't imagine myself producing a performance like this. I asked her to play it again and at this point I really listened to hear what made her playing stand out. She produced the same effect. Since then, my approach to listening to piano music has totally altered. There are no superstars and some amazing performances can come from the most humble of musicians.

[James]

Frank Zappa got me really listening and paying attention to music in a way I previously hadn't. From that I immediately dove right into Varese > Stravinsky > Bartok > Webern > Boulez > Stockhausen > Nancarrow > Carter & Ligeti. I took to most of this stuff immediately and my appreciation, perception & understanding of what music was and could-be grew astronomically.

[hangos]

Frank Zappa got me really listening and paying attention to music in a way I previously hadn't. From that I immediately dove right into Varese > Stravinsky > Bartok > Webern > Boulez > Stockhausen > Nancarrow > Carter & Ligeti. I took to most of this stuff immediately and my appreciation, perception & understanding of what music was and could-be grew astronomically.

James,
I know just what you mean about FZ!
I bet you can hear lots of similarities between FZ's music and certain pieces by Charles Mingus, especially in Mingus' unusual treatment of brass instruments which seems to have (perhaps consciously?) influenced Zappa
Martin

[James]

Well, I know Zappa had mixed feelings about jazz in general, but he did sort-of like Mingus and one of his faves was The Black Saint & the Sinner Lady. But there were other forces involved too, Zappa was friends with many jazz arrangers like Billy Byers in the early days, and he learned an awful lot from guys like that. In the later years, like with the 88' big band his influence & liking of Spike Jones became more prominent in the sound.

[TopoGigio]

The Voice...as Edith Piaf and another voice at the same song...
The Timbre! Yes,its not the melody...its the old (vertical)Harmony!

[anasazi]

This may sound self-serving, but it was actually my own playing the piano that finally, and only after 40 years of doing it, got me to appreciate what J.S. Bach's music could mean to me.

Bach's music, at least on keyboard, is so different for me finally. I can make it through most of the 48 and most of the inventions, etc. It finally kind of clicked, but only in the past three or four years. Now I hate to let a day go by without playing some of my favorite Bach pieces.

I don't think you sound self-serving. Any musician, amateur or pro, must listen to him/herself carefully and much more intently than when listening for enjoyment. Not doing so results in not-so-good playing (I know this well, I have a lot of experience with it )

Bach especially (and BTW, I am impressed by you getting through all the 48!) requires that you listen to the separate voices you are playing simultaneously with hearing the whole--a near impossibility! I have found that to get a Bach fugue down, I must listen first to one voice as I practice it, then do the 2nd voice, etc. I then put it together, practicing sections (or the whole piece) while zeroing in the listening to one voice at a time, alternately. Finally, something coherent comes out (with luck ) like an emergent phenomenon. Only then can I "hear" the whole while still keeping attention on the parts. I suspect that before it "clicked" for you, you may have not quite reached that emergent stage. (Wonder what Bach would think of this theory?)

All the best,
Teresa

I misspoke, 24, 48, whatever. Actually, I only do 24 (at the moment). Sorry. I do plan on doing all 48 however. I honestly can't remember a project that so much fun however.

But you are right Teresa. A lesson that I learned in the US Navy band school, was to understand what you are playing and who you are playing it for. Projecting the music to your audience. No matter what style, what kind of music. We really have to kind of understand how we are sounding to others.

[Lance]

It would be very nice if this thread could continue! Any takers???

[Imperfect Pitch]

It would be very nice if this thread could continue! Any takers???

Sure, Lance! Here are some performers who have "made me listen" over the years - the ones who were able to communicate a certain sense of adventure and rediscovery through their playing ...

E. Power Biggs
Clifford Curzon
Glenn Gould
Vladimir Horowitz
Sviatoslav Richter
Mstislav Rostropovich
Oscar Shumsky
Rosalyn Tureck

In terms of repertoire, it was Bach's Brandenburg Concerto #2 that mesmerized me as a kid and got me into classical music in the first place.

[Robinland]

Conductors that would throw the baton into our section if he didn't like what he heard...

And Teresa B...I don't know what Bach would have said about your method of learning his fugues but I think Milstein would have said "Right On!" SOMEWHERE I heard an interview with him...I was very relieved to hear him say there was not a thing wrong with (in essence playing the top notes or first voice first) and he also said that you HAVE to get your head wrapped around a piece before you can play it. (Maybe this is why his playing always makes sense) When I am working on something new I buy several good recordings if I can--I always hear something new in each one. I know a good muscian is not supposed to need to do such things but...YOU KNOW WHAT...if makes me play better and at this point, I really don't give a rats behind anymore.

[annalisa_moretti]

For me it would be opera. I always used to think it did not really have much meaning, so I would just try to find the mere instrumental parts for operatic pieces, but after a while I started listening to the words as well and suddenly I fell in love with opera all over again (lol rebirth). So I guess my 'analytical subconscious' made me learn to listen for everything in opera.

[maestrob]

We talk about moments of epiphany but this was special to me and made me re-evaluate what makes some musical performances special. One of the things I've done is coach gymnastics and my preference was teaching the basics and therefore working with the younger children. One of the venues the Gym Club used was a school hall and nearly all school halls have a piano. One day one of the gymnasts, an 8 year old arrived early, sat down at the piano and played Fur Elise. What I heard was not the usual hackneyed childlike progression through the work but a performance that made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. I play well but couldn't imagine myself producing a performance like this. I asked her to play it again and at this point I really listened to hear what made her playing stand out. She produced the same effect. Since then, my approach to listening to piano music has totally altered. There are no superstars and some amazing performances can come from the most humble of musicians.

Very well put!

What taught me to really listen was actually working with young professional singers who were just starting their careers (recent graduates all). When I began auditioning, I was blown away by the potential level of quality in young American talent, and preparing them for performance taught me that paying attention to the potential of a young performer could raise their singing to a highly professional level with a minimum of rehearsal. The transformation was stunning in many cases.

[Ken]

I can't precisely identify who has in the past made me really listen to my music--to hear the message behind the score--because I find that those moments when I have experienced musical 'epiphanies' have been the result of the circumstances or my own level of concentration and awareness rather than the action of the performer. That said, there have been interpreters who have for me sent me clear messages through the music and have caused me to pay attention. Glenn Gould is, as some have mentioned, one of the instrumentalists who has most consistently done this, and Sviatoslav Richter is another; in terms of orchestral music, when I hear Furtwängler, I often hear subtleties in scores that are otherwise lost on me.

I'll need a while to come up with a better answer for this tricky topic!