My upcoming Mahler lecture

[Stonebraker]

Hey all,

Posting from my phone, so I will be brief. I'll be able to describe what I'm using thus far in the lecture in an hour or so, when I get to a desktop. I'm teaching a class this Thursday for music majors at my community college, in the "survey of music" course. The subject is gustav Mahler. I was curious if there were anythings the big mahlerites out there think would be necessary or interesting to include in my lecture. I can give more details later, but I'm putting together a packet of information on Mahler and his music to hand out, and I'll be playing extended music examples for probably 30 of the 50 minutes.

So any thoughts? Also feel free to ask questions, I know I haven't been descriptive this far. Thanks all.

[Corlyss_D]

Forgive me if some of this is obvious:

The musical influences on him and what he passed along
The prominence of song in his composing
His marriage to Alma
The death of his two daughters after he wrote Kindertotenlieder
His conversion from Judaism to obtain the post of conductor in Vienna

[DavidRoss]

Add his love of nature; his search for a spiritual answer to his despair over human tragedy; the importance of text to his songs, including his own translations and conjunctions of texts; his early use of programs and later rejection of them as inclusions intrinsic to the works; his career as the leading opera conductor of his day and its influence on the operatic nature of his symphonies--and the time constraints it imposed on his composing; the brilliance of his orchestration and use of "chamber groupings" within the context of his symphonies; the famous meeting with Sibelius in which he (Mahler) stated his artistic credo that a symphony should be like the world and embrace everything.

[John F]

The use of vernacular poetry and musical idioms in his symphonies - "Des Knaben Wunderhorn," Ländler (originally a country dance), klezmer and "Frère Jacques" in the 1st symphony, etc. Probably this is what delayed appreciation of his music and caused his style to be called "banal" until the breakthrough into popularity in the 1960s. And it may have something to do with that popularity as well.

[THEHORN]

Good suggestions, but both Mahler daughters did not die.
Only the elder one died, to her parents devastation. But the younger one survived to grow up, and was even married to the noted composer Austrian composer Ernst Krenek briefly.

[Stonebraker]

Thanks all! Sorry I couldn't make it to a desktop sooner. Mostly I've included what you guys have mentioned in your responses... perhaps what I'm having more trouble with is how I should go about talking about Mahler, or the order I should talk about him in. I mean, I sort of think I should talk about the context of his music, and talk about contemporary symphonies of the time, then move onto thing characteristic of his music, then talk about his obsession with death, or something to that effect. Any advice on an order in which to attack this? Mind you, if I had to guess, most of these people aren't consistent classical listeners, and those who are I'm sure aren't very familiar with Mahler.

[Corlyss_D]

How do you routinely go about introducing a new composer?

Maybe you could start off with John's reference to "Frère Jacques". Everyone knows that from childhood. Before you say anything substantive about Mahler, play a part of that movement and ask if anyone recognizes the tune at the root. And then start with his fondness for folk music or children's music. From there you can branch in any direction. I agree getting started is the hardest.

[Stonebraker]

Thanks for the response. I've never actually done this before. I think what you recommended is great, but probably won't work out for my class. My former teacher is allowing me to teach this class, just because he knows I'm passionate about Mahler. We discussed what he wants me to talk about, and thats the 3rd movement of the 1st and the fourth movement of the fourth. So in all likelihood he'd probably like me to talk about it prior to playing, also, thats generally how he runs his class room.

Perhaps I should just talk about how personal the music is to me? I know that seems kind of wierd, but I'm sure I'll launch into that at some point anyways... it would probably be best to maybe just get it out early, and then I could launch into whatever I wanted. Either way, I'm talking to my prof. tomorrow about what he thinks would be best, so I'll return tomorrow evening and check in. Thanks again all for the responses. Sorry if this post isn't as coherant as I'd like, I just received some heartbreaking news... I feel like two mahler songs can describe it well. ""Wenn mein Schatz Hochzeit macht". "Ich hab'ein glühend Messer"

Thanks again all.

[Corlyss_D]

I'm sorry about the news you've received and hope things work out okay.

Passionate enthusiasm often makes up for flaws in the material and in the spokesman. I'm sure however you approach it, you will convey to the audience what a terrific, passionately human composer Mahler was and that he is a fantastic and rewarding subject for them to explore further.

[Heck148]

you might want to point out that Mahler went thru some very definite stages in his career as a composer -
symphonies 1-4 are very closely associated with the song cycles, and draw much material from them.
symphonies 5-7 are purely symphonic works, in which Mahler concentrated on defining his form, his orchestration - they are works of great intensity and concentration, esp 5 and 6.

#8 stands by itself, a huge canata of sorts, employing a great mass of performers - tho there are also lovely moments of near-chamber-music like quality.

Sym 9, Das Lied von der Erde, unfinished #10 present Mahler at his most potent, purely distilled genius...#9 and DLvdE esp - form and content combine most brilliantly, in works of powerful expression, composed most economically and cohesively; some of the greatest music ever produced by any human.

[Stonebraker]

Again, thanks all for the responses! I'll let you know a bit later my outline, as well as what materials i plan to pass out and what materials to put on the board. Pleaes be critical when that happens.

I'm curious if anyone knows of any statistics on how often Mahler is programed around the world, or even here in the states. To me he seem's to be right behind Beethoven, but maybe that's just my selective sight. Does any have any information/insight on this?

[maestrob]

Stonebreaker:

If you're playing the fourth movement of Symphony IV, it might be a good idea to pass out a translation of the poem and discuss the meaning.

Encompassing all of Mahler in a single lecture is almost impossible, I'll admit: there's so much ground to cover. You might mention that he was a highly successful conductor and, in his day, more known for his conducting of other people's music than as a composer (Toscanini refused to conduct Mahler's music). You should, I think, make clear that he earned most of his living from conducting rather than from composing, much as Boulez does now.

Just off the top of my head.....

[DavidRoss]

I'm curious if anyone knows of any statistics on how often Mahler is programed around the world, or even here in the states. To me he seem's to be right behind Beethoven, but maybe that's just my selective sight. Does any have any information/insight on this?

See page 6: http://musike.cmpr.edu/v001/thuerauf.pdf

[Stonebraker]

maestrob , thanks, I plan on including both the text and definetly letting evryone know his tremendous sucess as a conductor versus his lack of public sucess as a composer, at the time.

I'm curious if anyone knows of any statistics on how often Mahler is programed around the world, or even here in the states. To me he seem's to be right behind Beethoven, but maybe that's just my selective sight. Does any have any information/insight on this?

See page 6: http://musike.cmpr.edu/v001/thuerauf.pdf

Wow, thanks so much. I'm a bit baffled by the chart though, what they're saying is the total number of minutes Mahler is performed is greater than the people below him (in table 5) but that he is not performed as often as any of the peoople in table 6?

[DavidRoss]

maestrob , thanks, I plan on including both the text and definetly letting evryone know his tremendous sucess as a conductor versus his lack of public sucess as a composer, at the time.

I'm curious if anyone knows of any statistics on how often Mahler is programed around the world, or even here in the states. To me he seem's to be right behind Beethoven, but maybe that's just my selective sight. Does any have any information/insight on this?

See page 6: http://musike.cmpr.edu/v001/thuerauf.pdf

Wow, thanks so much. I'm a bit baffled by the chart though, what they're saying is the total number of minutes Mahler is performed is greater than the people below him (in table 5) but that he is not performed as often as any of the peoople in table 6?

Table 5 is in minutes and includes the survey season 2003-04 plus several years in the '80s. Mahler ranked 4th in number of minutes performed by the surveyed orchestras during that time (length of his compositions certainly elevated his ranking). In 2003-04 alone, by frequency of compositions played (not minutes), he didn't crack the top ten.

[Sator]

Thoughts off the top my head.

Mahler and the Zeitgeist of his time. He was a contemporary of Freud and underwent analysis with him. Mahler had a Romantic obsession with death. Themes of Tod, Angst, and Sorge are an essential part of the psychology of his music, which is full of autobiographical elements. He was a short man, with a shorter fuse and walked with a slight limp which he reputedly subconsciously copied off his mother, whom he adored. However, she lived in terror of Mahler's father - a brutal bar-owner. The young Klemperer once followed him along the streets watching as Mahler talked to himself and pulled strange faces, which held a strange Romantic-demonic fascination.

Alienation. "I am trice homeless" he said, "firstly as German amongst Czechs [he grew up in what is now the Czech Republic, then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire], secondly as an Austrian amongst Germans, and thirdly as a Jew everywhere".

Form. The easiest way to understand his symphonic form is to understand that in every symphony there is a battle to the death between two main keys. In the 6th Symphony it is A minor vs E flat major - Death vs Life. In the 6th, A minor crushes E flat underfoot. Of course, the conflict spills over into other keys but this too is a consequence of the Main Struggle. This is much easier to comprehend, and more logical than the rather nebulous theory about "progessive tonality".

Death. Mahler died young and he knew his days were numbered. He grew up in a huge family in imporished conditions which made him susceptible to getting rheumatic fever as a child which probably left his heart valves scarred. Scarred valves are prone to getting infected and Robert Koch managed to grow Streptococcus out of Mahler's blood - he had infective endocarditis, an incurable condition in the antibiotic era. The so-called Farewell Trilogy (Das Lied von der Erde, 9th Symphony and the unfinished 10th) are his response to facing death at a relatively young age, at the height of his artistic powers.

[DavidRoss]

He was a contemporary of Freud and underwent analysis with him.

Well, they did meet once on vacation and discussed Mahler's neurotic obsessions during a long walk together.

[maestrob]

Yes, it's a gloomy subject for a brief lecture, but Mahler experienced a great deal of death in his large family as a young man. Out of 13 siblings, only 3 survived into adulthood, and his brother Otto (also a musician) committed suicide at the tender age of 22. His mother also suffered from chronic ill health due to his father's mistreatment and her constant childbearing.

[Sator]

Well, they did meet once on vacation and discussed Mahler's neurotic obsessions during a long walk together.

I understood he was a client. A note exists from the consultation which I have seen quoted. It was the fashion of the time.

[Stonebraker]

Hey guys, sorry for not responding more to all the help. Everyone said the lecture went very well, and that not only did they learn about Mahler, they enjoyed his music tremendously. People say have have quite a knack for this kind of stuff which was really great to hear.

Unfortunetly I had my heart broken the day before. I came home afterwards hoping Mahler would make me feel better, and it did not help the emptiness inside me. So I was unable to bring the enthusiasm I wanted to the lecture. I talked to my conducting teacher afterwards, and had to leave our lunch together early because I had to talk to the woman who broke my heart. And he said to me, "Go then, none of this will bring you happiness. None of it."

Sorry to get all emo here, haha, I'm much better now and realize my heartbreak was mostly a culmination of the past few months, and perhaps some lack of experience. Thanks again all for the sound advice on Mahler, and sorry I couldn't have been more responsive. If anyone has any questions about the lecture i'll be happy to answer. Thanks all!