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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:00 am 
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From the BBC.......9/12/09........Do any of my felllow CMGers know of a longer composition? :wink: 8)

The world's longest piece of music is being performed live for the first time on a unique 20-metre-wide instrument at a concert at The Roundhouse in London.

The Longplayer is a 1,000-year-long composition by Jem Finer and is played out by computer at several public listening posts around the world.

It began playing on 31 December 1999 and will continue - without repetition - until the last moment of 2999.

The live performance will play a 1,000 minute section of the music.

The performance began on Saturday morning and continue until the early hours of Sunday morning.

It was in 2002 that Finer - who was also one of the founding members of pop group The Pogues - developed a score for the music.

It allows the piece to be played as an orchestral installation comprising of six concentric rings of Tibetan singing bowls.

It is this arrangement that is being performed at the Roundhouse concert.

The Longplayer is continually played out at its flagship location, the Lighthouse in Trinity Buoy Wharf in London, but listening posts are also stationed in Australia, Egypt and the US.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:36 am 
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stenka razin wrote:
From the BBC.......9/12/09........Do any of my felllow CMGers know of a longer composition? :wink: 8)

The world's longest piece of music is being performed live for the first time on a unique 20-metre-wide instrument at a concert at The Roundhouse in London.

The Longplayer is a 1,000-year-long composition by Jem Finer and is played out by computer at several public listening posts around the world.

It began playing on 31 December 1999 and will continue - without repetition - until the last moment of 2999........


What key is it in?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:03 am 
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Will there be an intermission?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:04 am 
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Stenka, that would probably be Stochrama by Clarence Barlow, from 1972. On the first page, between events four and five, is a rest "that must last 252 seconds, which comes out to approximately 109,603,884,200 years." (Quoted from Tom Johnson's article "Minimalism in Music.")

(The 52 is supposed to be a superscript, of course!)

((I suppose one could consider that rest to be an intermission for that piece. Time to get a drink, take a pee, have great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great...* grandchildren, stuff like that.))


*4,384,155,368 greats, at 25 years per generation, which may be off by four or five years.

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Last edited by some guy on Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:08 am 
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And will somebody yell "encore" when it's finished ?








:lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:11 am 
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Somebody always does, don't they?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:15 am 
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Arguably, John Cage's 4'33" has been performed non-stop since its debut in 1952 and will continue being performed indefinitely into the future. It was not conceived as a never-ending composition but could easily be viewed (not to mention, executed) as such. This, of course, reinforces how pointless it is, musically speaking.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:19 am 
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stenka razin wrote:
It began playing on 31 December 1999 and will continue - without repetition - until the last moment of 2999.



when's the CD boxset coming out, Mel?? :D


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:58 am 
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I wonder how long it took for him to compose the work.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Imperfect Pitch wrote:

Arguably, John Cage's 4'33" has been performed non-stop since its debut in 1952 and will continue being performed indefinitely into the future. It was not conceived as a never-ending composition but could easily be viewed (not to mention, executed) as such. This, of course, reinforces how pointless it is, musically speaking.
Yes, of course that's what it does. :(

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:52 pm 
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some guy wrote:
Imperfect Pitch wrote:

Arguably, John Cage's 4'33" has been performed non-stop since its debut in 1952 and will continue being performed indefinitely into the future. It was not conceived as a never-ending composition but could easily be viewed (not to mention, executed) as such. This, of course, reinforces how pointless it is, musically speaking.
Yes, of course that's what it does. :(


Are you a fan of the piece? I guess I never "got" it - but then again, I never got Brahms either. So it's probably my loss.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:21 pm 
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Jem Finer might well wish to beat John Cage at his own game, but the only way to successfully out-Cage Cage is to do nothing at all. Therefore myself and many others have all written the longest pieces of music ever. The artism in it all is that they're being played at such a slow wavelength that they will never be heard.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Imperfect Pitch wrote:

Arguably, John Cage's 4'33" has been performed non-stop since its debut in 1952 and will continue being performed indefinitely into the future. It was not conceived as a never-ending composition but could easily be viewed (not to mention, executed) as such. This, of course, reinforces how pointless it is, musically speaking.


Scuse me saying so but that's one of the most astute remarks about this work, surely?
Where does it end? When the musician leaves? When people leave the venue? When we all stop discussing it?
Where indeed does it start? Cage just cut a chunk out of "silence", surely?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:00 pm 
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some guy wrote:
Stenka, that would probably be Stochrama by Clarence Barlow, from 1972. On the first page, between events four and five, is a rest "that must last 252 seconds, which comes out to approximately 109,603,884,200 years." (Quoted from Tom Johnson's article "Minimalism in Music.")

(The 52 is supposed to be a superscript, of course!)


Glad that you mentioned that. 2 seconds is hardly time to queue up for and drink a pint in the Royal Festival Hall, you know. It could give someone the windipops, drinking at that rate.

:D


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:07 pm 
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Jared wrote:
stenka razin wrote:
It began playing on 31 December 1999 and will continue - without repetition - until the last moment of 2999.



when's the CD boxset coming out, Mel?? :D


If you don't mind me preempting the answer, I think Gramophone announced that it would be released on 15th January 3000. It comes in a limited edition with a facsimile of the Boulez Medal for Endurance above and beyond Normal Listening Duty.

:o


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:04 pm 
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I just composed a work that will never be beaten in the "longest composition" category.

I took a copy of Cage's 4'33" and placed a new repeat sign, which looks like this - :lol: - at the end of the score. In the notes, I explain that my new repeat sign means that you repeat entire preceding section over and over, never stopping.

Still looking for someone to premier it.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:12 pm 
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stenka razin wrote:
From the BBC.......9/12/09........Do any of my felllow CMGers know of a longer composition? :wink: 8)

No, but I do know the man who wrote it, Jem was the quiet one in the Pogues, actually Phil Chevron was even quieter, and smaller too, I could tell Pogues stories that would amaze you, but, they would need to be in "The Pub" as they are pretty much all drinking stories... :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:52 am 
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Well, Chalkie, if you've read this thread, you DO know of a longer one than this. One with a rest, one rest, of over one hundred thousand million years.

(I'm going over to The Pub, now. I hope there're some Pogues anecdotes there. Or at least some beer.)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:06 am 
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Well, that beats John Cage's "As Slow as Possible," whose performance on an organ in Halberstadt, Germany began in 2001 and is supposed to last 639 years. For the first 17 months, the only sound was the organ's bellows being inflated; the first three actual notes took a year and a half to play.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2728595.stm

Oh yes, no set-it-and-forget-it computer performance there - the organ is being played by actual living human beings. And the 639-year duration is arbitrary; the original piano piece is 20 minutes long, but someone had the bright idea of taking the title literally, and settled on the age of the organ (639 years old) for the duration. They could have aimed to "beat" the London thing, but that would have been silly.

Of course the whole thing is silly and pointless, which I suppose is the point of it all.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:34 am 
John F wrote:
Well, that beats John Cage's "As Slow as Possible," whose performance on an organ in Halberstadt, Germany began in 2001 and is supposed to last 639 years. For the first 17 months, the only sound was the organ's bellows being inflated; the first three actual notes took a year and a half to play.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2728595.stm


pfff whatever. silly & pointless indeed.

with regards to 'real' music Wagner's 4 part Ring cycle is 15hrs? Probably the most successful & substantial piece of that gigantic scale I can think of in the history of Western music. Lots of amazing stuff there, & it gets better as the cycle progresses too.

Stockhausen's ambitious 7 day operatic cycle Licht is 29hrs...took about 25+ years to complete. Lots of striking music in that.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:47 am 
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Well, neither of these is one piece of music, but rather a sequence of related pieces that can be and often are performed independently. "Licht" has never been given complete, that is, in sequence within a reasonably limited period (say, 2-3 weeks); indeed, "Mittwoch" and "Sonntag" haven't yet been staged as wholes. Complete Ring cycles are not infrequent, but "Die Walküre" is usually performed on its own - 416 times at the Metropolitan Opera, compared with 106 times as part of a complete Ring there. The only exception is surely the Bayreuth Festival, where the Ring operas are always given together - that's what the Festspielhaus was originally created for.

The longest unified piece I know of is Satie's "Vexations." The music fits onto a single page but is supposed to be played 840 times in succession. The first known public performance, involving 12 pianists playing in relays, lasted nearly 30 hours. Which, come to think of it, is about twice as long as a brisk performance of the Ring. :roll: I took in about an hour of it, was duly vexed, and beat it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:18 am 
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I think Musica Universalis [Universal Music, or Music of the Spheres] is the clear winner. As set forth by Pythagorus, Keppler and others, Musica Universalis is based on the ancient philosphy that the movements of heavenly bodies is a form of music which, although not literally audible, is a mathematical and harmonic concept. Depending on how the age of the universe is calculated, this music has already been playing for 13.5 billion years, with no sign of stopping. :)

In his Symphony and Opera Die Harmonie der Welt [The Harmony of the World], Paul Hindemith portrayed Jonannes Kepler and his attempts to explain this cosmological order.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:44 am 
John F wrote:
The longest unified piece I know of is Satie's "Vexations." The music fits onto a single page but is supposed to be played 840 times in succession. The first known public performance, involving 12 pianists playing in relays, lasted nearly 30 hours.


Satie the joker, but that's not worth mentioning either ... anyone can do that. What about something for real?

On a serious note, Wagner's major pieces are the longest ones that are invaluable. Tristan und Isolde is what 5hrs? Parsifal 4 & a bit?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:50 pm 
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some guy wrote:
Stenka, that would probably be Stochrama by Clarence Barlow, from 1972. On the first page, between events four and five, is a rest "that must last 252 seconds, which comes out to approximately 109,603,884,200 years." (Quoted from Tom Johnson's article "Minimalism in Music.")

(The 52 is supposed to be a superscript, of course!)

((I suppose one could consider that rest to be an intermission for that piece. Time to get a drink, take a pee, have great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great...* grandchildren, stuff like that.))


*4,384,155,368 greats, at 25 years per generation, which may be off by four or five years.



I think his math is off, I get roughly 140 million years

2^52 = 4.5 * 10^15 seconds divided by 3.15 x 10^7 seconds per year


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:32 pm 
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And I get almost 43 thousand million.

This is why I quoted Tom instead of doing the math. I have no confidence in my math at all. And now I have none for Tom's math, either!!

As for the Halberstadt performance of Cage's Organ2, ASLSP, it is not being played by humans. Each key is attached to a weight. Unless John means that the weights being changed (every few years or so) by humans counts as humans playing it. (The organ that's playing it is not the 639 year old, either, but one that's being built, pipe by pipe, to accommodate each chord change.)

And remember, before we get too carried away with calling this silly, remember where this is being done. This is in Germany. This is a place where there are things like a bakery that's been in the same family for over 800 years. (I.e., not in Kansas.)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:58 pm 
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some guy wrote:
And I get almost 43 thousand million.

)



how did you get that? its

2^52 / (60*60*24*365)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:28 am 
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Amazing. That's just the equation I used, BWV! (So I must have mistyped something at some point. Shoulda done it on paper and checked it, just like my math teachers always used to say. But it seemed so simple....)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:24 am 
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some guy wrote:
As for the Halberstadt performance of Cage's Organ2, ASLSP, it is not being played by humans. Each key is attached to a weight. Unless John means that the weights being changed (every few years or so) by humans counts as humans playing it. (The organ that's playing it is not the 639 year old, either, but one that's being built, pipe by pipe, to accommodate each chord change.)

All I know is what I read in the papers. :)

some guy wrote:
And remember, before we get too carried away with calling this silly, remember where this is being done. This is in Germany. This is a place where there are things like a bakery that's been in the same family for over 800 years. (I.e., not in Kansas.)

Completely different enterprises, in every way but the number of years. Passing on a family trade or business from parents to children is not silly; it's been the natural thing to do as long as historical memory. A piece of so-called music which can't possibly be listened to, meaning not only that it goes on beyond any imaginable human life span but that no one can get any moment-to-moment continuity out of it at all, is as I said pointless and silly - taken as music. If you want to classify it as not music but something else - an employment scheme for organ builders, say - that wouldn't be silly in the same way, though it might be silly nonetheless.

Satie was not stupid or insane, and knew full well that repeating "Vexations" 840 times would be a silly thing to do. Did he imagine it would ever be done? Did he care? Did he even want that? What he wrote is, "In order to play the theme 840 times in succession, it would be advisable to prepare oneself beforehand, and in the deepest silence, by serious immobilities." Like so many of the words he attached to his compositions, this is a joke. But in our literal age, it's perhaps not surprising that some took it literally and actually did it.

As for "The Longplayer," the piece of music actually composed by Jem Finer is 20 minutes and 20 seconds long, and was recorded shortly before the "performance" began. The Longplayer web site says:

Quote:
Longplayer grew out of a conceptual concern with problems of representing and understanding the fluidity and expansiveness of time. While it found form as a musical composition, it can also be understood as a living, 1000 year long process – an artificial life form programmed to seek its own survival strategies. More than a piece of music, Longplayer is a social organism, depending on people – and the communication between people – for its continuation, and existing as a community of listeners across centuries.

High-sounding bafflegab, typical of the whole website, but interesting in that it finesses the process's ostensible musical function, not to mention its quality and value as music. Any number of existing pieces of music might have done as well as a starting point, because this isn't about the original human-composed piece but the computer's applying its "simple algorithm" (according to Wikipedia) to spin it out by (I'm guessing) adjusting the synchronization of the original recording's tracks year after year, century after century, world without end. Which of course raises another question.

Incidentally, the website provides a link so that if you don't want to go to the sites in London, San Francisco, etc. where it's being played out loud, you can get a sample at home. I clicked on it and it didn't work; you may be luckier.

http://longplayer.org/index.php

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:43 am 
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Have just started playing Lemniscaat by Dutch composer Simeon Ten Holt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_ten_Holt who has written almost exclusively for piano / multiple piano configuration. This recording takes about 155 minutes but apparently when this piece was premiered it took 30 hours (!!). His style could be called Minimal but, as it says on his wikipedia page, but it certainly doesn't sound like Reich or Glass. One definining characteristic of his pieces is that, although he carefully notes a lot, also a lot of decisions have to made by the performers. They have to decide about a lot of the dynamics and as Ten Holt writes in sections the performers get to decide how long each section is. I also believe that in the case of his most famous piece Canto Ostinato actually players can decide for themselves if they move on to the next section. A few years ago a 11 disc cd-box was released with live recordings of performances of some of his major pieces and I found a Dutch classical music shop that sells them (as new) online for about EUR 40.00 excl. shipping which is almost half of what they cost officially.

The music is pretty enchanting where as with a lot of minimal music I feel the action is very mechanic Ten Holt's music really ensnares you and you are eagerly awaiting the next section.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:29 am 
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Where do you think Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum ranks for lengthy musical works? :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:05 pm 
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I have the recording with John Ogdon. I've attempted listening several times. Can't say much for the work.
Cliftwood wrote:
Where do you think Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum ranks for lengthy musical works? :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Any Bruckner symphony adagio conducted by Celibidache in Munich ! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:33 pm 
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Anything by U2 or perhaps it just feels like it goes on forever...but that's not music, sorry forget that I mentioned it. :lol:

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