I tire easily of listening to Bach

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IcedNote
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I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by IcedNote » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:07 pm

I find his counterpoint to be absolutely exhausting. I mean, it's magnificent, but hot damn, one can only take so much!

Who's with me? :mrgreen: :?

-G
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by diegobueno » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:12 pm

Rather like a fine cognac, wouldn't you say? :)
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Chalkperson » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:14 pm

I play Bach's music every day, and I have done for many years, life is not complete without a daily dose of JSB... :D :D :D
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Tiger
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Tiger » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:24 pm

Chalkperson wrote:I play Bach's music every day, and I have done for many years, life is not complete without a daily dose of JSB... :D :D :D
I'm playing Bach right now, and I will play him later also. A day without Bach is like a day without sex.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:51 pm

IcedNote wrote:I find his counterpoint to be absolutely exhausting. I mean, it's magnificent, but hot damn, one can only take so much!

Who's with me? :mrgreen: :?

-G
Not I, said the duck. There is such rich variety there that I could listen to him all day, every day.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Guitarist » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:54 pm

IcedNote wrote:I find his counterpoint to be absolutely exhausting. I mean, it's magnificent, but hot damn, one can only take so much!

Who's with me? :mrgreen: :?

-G
Not me--I revel in it!

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Wallingford » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:56 pm

It's the kind of music that comes pretty darn close to being more fascinating to a trained musician than to a listener.....but THANK GOD it never really reaches that level.
If I could tell my mom and dad
That the things we never had
Never mattered we were always ok
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Heck148
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Heck148 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:19 pm

IcedNote wrote:I find his counterpoint to be absolutely exhausting. I mean, it's magnificent, but hot damn, one can only take so much!
Interesting. I find Bach quite satisfying, relaxing even. the steady pulse, constant melody and harmonic progression is most relaxing to me...very much like jazz....it just unfolds inevitably......

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Lance » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:22 am

You mean you indulge in both on a DAILY basis? No wonder they call you "Tiger!"
Tiger wrote:
Chalkperson wrote:I play Bach's music every day, and I have done for many years, life is not complete without a daily dose of JSB... :D :D :D
I'm playing Bach right now, and I will play him later also. A day without Bach is like a day without sex.
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Tiger
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Tiger » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:00 am

Lance wrote:You mean you indulge in both on a DAILY basis? No wonder they call you "Tiger!"
I owe it all to my little blue pills. :)

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by bombasticDarren » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:17 am

I agree.

I do love most Bach that I have heard, but I do reach a cut-off point where I need to have a break. For example I can imagine listening to Mozart all day - but Bach? I think I would 'switch off' mentally quite quickly.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Fergus » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:30 am

Not I....I cannot get enough of his music :wink:

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Donald Isler » Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:24 pm

The one most essential composer.

I wouldn't like to do without any of the other important ones, but I can't imagine life, or classical music with Bach.
Donald Isler

IcedNote
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by IcedNote » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:31 pm

Hm, I'm not saying that I don't like Bach; I'm just saying that I can't take him in large doses.

-G
Harakiried composer reincarnated as a nonprofit development guy.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Wallingford » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:49 pm

bombasticDarren wrote: I do love most Bach that I have heard, but I do reach a cut-off point where I need to have a break. For example I can imagine listening to Mozart all day - but Bach? I think I would 'switch off' mentally quite quickly.
It's quite the opposite for me. As the late composer-critic William Flanagan said, Mozart may have been the greatest, but so much of his music is tiresomely perfect.
If I could tell my mom and dad
That the things we never had
Never mattered we were always ok
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Auntie Lynn » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:43 pm

If you tire of listening, then that's your problem. Whatcha gotta do, m'dear, is get yourself a stack of - say - Partitas - French/English Suites, Tocattas, etc. etc. and set yourself down in front of the Old 88 (a Hamburg Steinway would be nice) and work it all out yourself. I have done it for umpty zillion years and cannot wait to get back to it every day...

Mwah! Lemme know how it works out...

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Holden Fourth » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:22 am

Iced Note, I was of a similar point of view but radically rethought my approach. Bach wrote passionate music and it was Virgil Fox and Wendy Carlos who initially demonstrated that to me. From that point on I sought out passionate and fervent performances of JSB's music and was not disappointed.

There are lots of performances out there of his music that do nothing else but metronomically follow the beat and emphasise the polyphony but not the music.

Then again there is Glenn Gould and many of his ilk that see and feel the passion that is Bach.

Can I recommend a couple of keyboard recordings that might change your mind.

Partitas - Gould or even better IMO, Sergey Schepkin
Inventions and Sinfonias - Evgeni Koroliov

Others here will be able to make recommendations about his choral and chamber works.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Vandy » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:28 am

I'd like to suggest a couple of works that are enough to renew anyone's passion for simply being alive.

Violin Sonata No.1 - Fugue
Violin - Rachel Podger
or
Guitar - Julian bream

Violin Concerto in Am
Julia Fischer

Ahhhhhh.....

V
"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."
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jbuck919
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:30 am

Holden Fourth wrote: Others here will be able to make recommendations about his choral and chamber works.
The St. Matthew and the St. John. Very passionate music. :)

Seriously, the kind of personal expressiveness you seem to be (correctly) referring to is best found in his works for solo instrument, whether keyboard or string.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:31 am

Vandy wrote:I'd like to suggest a couple of works that are enough to renew anyone's passion for simply being alive.

Violin Sonata No.1 - Fugue
Violin - Rachel Podger
or
Guitar - Julian bream

Violin Concerto in Am
Julia Fischer

Ahhhhhh.....

V
Thanks for your post, and

WELCOME TO THE CLASSICAL MUSIC GUIDE!

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

IcedNote
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by IcedNote » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:29 pm

Auntie Lynn wrote:If you tire of listening, then that's your problem. Whatcha gotta do, m'dear, is get yourself a stack of - say - Partitas - French/English Suites, Tocattas, etc. etc. and set yourself down in front of the Old 88 (a Hamburg Steinway would be nice) and work it all out yourself. I have done it for umpty zillion years and cannot wait to get back to it every day...

Mwah! Lemme know how it works out...
I've played through plenty of his keyboard works. Try again. ;)

-G
Harakiried composer reincarnated as a nonprofit development guy.

jbuck919
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:38 pm

IcedNote wrote: I've played through plenty of his keyboard works.
Well, that explains why you're tired.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by IcedNote » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:44 pm

jbuck919 wrote:Well, that explains why you're tired.
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-G
Harakiried composer reincarnated as a nonprofit development guy.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by diegobueno » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:39 pm

So, what are your five favorite Bach pieces to get tired of?
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Jack Kelso » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:23 am

No, I don't tire of Bach (nor of my other favs either!), but I CAN tire of church music.

But give me the keyboard concerti (preferably for piano), violin concerti, Brandenburger Konzerte, etc. and I'll gleefully stay awake!

Tschüß,
Jack
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by living_stradivarius » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:28 am

Depends on what kind of Bach you get tired of... For an entire quarter my college roommate played the Goldberg variations on a daily basis. :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Marc » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:49 am

IcedNote wrote:I find his counterpoint to be absolutely exhausting. I mean, it's magnificent, but hot damn, one can only take so much!
What's the prob?
There is more music to choose from.
IcedNote wrote: Who's with me? :mrgreen: :?
Not me. If there weren't more music to choose from, I'd still be a very happy man. Bach is my daily bread and butter, preferably in huge amounts. :)

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Tiger » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:10 am

living_stradivarius wrote:Depends on what kind of Bach you get tired of... For an entire quarter my college roommate played the Goldberg variations on a daily basis. :cry: :cry: :cry:
Multiple recordings or just the same one over and over?

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Heck148 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:15 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:Depends on what kind of Bach you get tired of... For an entire quarter my college roommate played the Goldberg variations on a daily basis.
my freshman roommate's favorite music to play was Alvin and the Chipmunks, and Pepino, the Italian Mouse.... :roll: :roll:

I spent very little time in the room. :lol: :lol: :P

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Steinway » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:33 pm

Donald Isler wrote:The one most essential composer.

I wouldn't like to do without any of the other important ones, but I can't imagine life, or classical music with Bach.
Donald..

Precisely my sentiments. If I could only have one composer's works to hear for the rest of my life, J.S.Bach would be the easy choice. :)

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Chalkperson » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:36 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:Depends on what kind of Bach you get tired of... For an entire quarter my college roommate played the Goldberg variations on a daily basis. :cry: :cry: :cry:
I played it daily for about a decade, my employees had no choice but to endure it, then I moved on to the WTC for the next ten, I still play the WTC about four times a week...the only other works I found that I could do at that level of repetition were a daily rotation of Scarlatti's 555 Keyboard Sonatas... :D :D :D
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Fergus » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:12 pm

What is your staff turnover rate like Chalkie :lol:

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Steinway » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:27 pm

Chalkie..

I didn't know you were a Scarlatti devotee! :D

I assume you have a good number of recordings. We need to compare notes! :lol:

I have had a passion for DS for many years!

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by jbuck919 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:43 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
living_stradivarius wrote:Depends on what kind of Bach you get tired of... For an entire quarter my college roommate played the Goldberg variations on a daily basis. :cry: :cry: :cry:
I played it daily for about a decade, my employees had no choice but to endure it, then I moved on to the WTC for the next ten, I still play the WTC about four times a week...the only other works I found that I could do at that level of repetition were a daily rotation of Scarlatti's 555 Keyboard Sonatas... :D :D :D
You never cease to amaze me. As comprehensive as your interests are, you still find time for big, frequent, regular chunks of baroque keyboard music. First the Neumeister Chorales, now the (much more deserving of repeated listening IMO) works you mention here. For all that I worship Bach and merely adore Scarlatti, I don't know if I could manage that if it were the only music in existence!

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Chalkperson » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:44 pm

Cliftwood wrote:Chalkie..

I didn't know you were a Scarlatti devotee! :D

I assume you have a good number of recordings. We need to compare notes! :lol:

I have had a passion for DS for many years!
I have every decent Scarlatti Keyboard disc that I know of, for Piano renditions I especially like Anthony di Bonaventura's discs on Titanic and Centaur, Maria Tipo on EMI, Constantin Scherbakov on Naxos, Yevgeny Sudbin on BIS, Andras Schiff on Decca and Ivo Pogorelich on DG.....
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by diegobueno » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:51 pm

IcedNote wrote:I find his counterpoint to be absolutely exhausting. I mean, it's magnificent, but hot damn, one can only take so much!

Who's with me? :mrgreen: :?

-G
Considering how complex Bach's counterpoint is, how endlessly and ingeniously inventive, and how intense and concentrated the writing is, I can see how a little would go a long way. I would tend to think that anyone who doesn't easily tire while listening to Bach isn't really listening too closely.
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Tiger » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:25 pm

diegobueno wrote:
IcedNote wrote:I find his counterpoint to be absolutely exhausting. I mean, it's magnificent, but hot damn, one can only take so much!

Who's with me? :mrgreen: :?

-G
Considering how complex Bach's counterpoint is, how endlessly and ingeniously inventive, and how intense and concentrated the writing is, I can see how a little would go a long way. I would tend to think that anyone who doesn't easily tire while listening to Bach isn't really listening too closely.
I can't agree. I know many, including myself, who listen daily to Bach with total concentration and never tire of the experience. One doesn't tire of music from a composer who is a musical soul-mate.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Guitarist » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:20 pm

Vandy wrote:I'd like to suggest a couple of works that are enough to renew anyone's passion for simply being alive.

Violin Sonata No.1 - Fugue
Violin - Rachel Podger
or
Guitar - Julian bream
I play this piece on the guitar--I never tire of it! I'm currently working on a transcription of the Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, BWV 565. Now, that piece separates the men from the boys on the guitar! I recently read that it might have been originally intended for for the violin or lute, and Bach (or someone) arranged it for organ. Some figurations definitely fall nicely under the fingers and certainly suggest a string instrument, while others are just plain punishing! I'll keep at it for a while, but I may have to admit defeat.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by IcedNote » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:39 pm

Hm...people are really taking what I said and running with it! I guess I should have been more specific. :)

I can listen to Bach for 30 minutes every day, no problem. Hell, I'd even enjoy it. But trying to make it past an hour or so is brutal...unless it's a piece that's actually meant to be longer than an hour (e.g. St Matthew's Passion). That's not a problem. But it's when I try to listen to the WTC straight through or something that presents a problem. Too much.

However, I can listen to all 32 Beethoven piano sonatas consecutively and be AOK.

Does that clarify anything? Or do you still think I'm nutso? ;)

-G
Harakiried composer reincarnated as a nonprofit development guy.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Trilogy » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:59 pm

IcedNote wrote:I find his counterpoint to be absolutely exhausting. I mean, it's magnificent, but hot damn, one can only take so much!

Who's with me? :mrgreen: :?

-G
His fugues are [almost] too much to handle, but that is the power of, JSB 8)


I can't get enough Bach.

"Music embodies feeling without forcing it to contend and
combine with thought, as it is forced in most arts and
especially in the art of words. If music has one advantage
over the other media through which a person can represent
the impressions of the soul, it owes this to its supreme
capacity to make each inner impulse audible without the
assistance of reason...Music presents at once the intensity
and the expression of feeling. It is the embodied and
intelligible essence of feeling, capable of being apprehended
by our senses. It permeates them like a dart, like a ray, like
a mist, like a spirit, and fills our soul."


- Franz Joseph Liszt

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by jbuck919 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:15 pm

IcedNote wrote:Hm...people are really taking what I said and running with it! I guess I should have been more specific. :)

I can listen to Bach for 30 minutes every day, no problem. Hell, I'd even enjoy it. But trying to make it past an hour or so is brutal...unless it's a piece that's actually meant to be longer than an hour (e.g. St Matthew's Passion). That's not a problem. But it's when I try to listen to the WTC straight through or something that presents a problem. Too much.

However, I can listen to all 32 Beethoven piano sonatas consecutively and be AOK.

Does that clarify anything? Or do you still think I'm nutso? ;)

-G
I don't know, Garrett. Anyone who would listen to all 32 sonatas at a sitting....

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by IcedNote » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:37 pm

jbuck919 wrote:I don't know, Garrett. Anyone who would listen to all 32 sonatas at a sitting....
<puts on flame suit>

I hear a much greater wealth of variety in Beethoven than Bach. I attribute some of this to the style(s) of the times, but I also attribute some of it to Beethoven being the better composer. In general, I think Beethoven has more things to say than Bach and more ways in which to say them. Therefore, I don't grow tired of Beethoven in the same way I do Bach.

<zips up flame suit>

-G
Harakiried composer reincarnated as a nonprofit development guy.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Steinway » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:42 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
Cliftwood wrote:Chalkie..

I didn't know you were a Scarlatti devotee! :D

I assume you have a good number of recordings. We need to compare notes! :lol:

I have had a passion for DS for many years!
I have every decent Scarlatti Keyboard disc that I know of, for Piano renditions I especially like Anthony di Bonaventura's discs on Titanic and Centaur, Maria Tipo on EMI, Constantin Scherbakov on Naxos, Yevgeny Sudbin on BIS, Andras Schiff on Decca and Ivo Pogorelich on DG.....
Chalkie..

Hard to dispute those recordings you listed. I would add Babayan, Pletnev, Tomsic and Andjaparidze . :lol:
Last edited by Steinway on Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Tiger » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:43 pm

IcedNote wrote:Hm...people are really taking what I said and running with it! I guess I should have been more specific. :)

I can listen to Bach for 30 minutes every day, no problem. Hell, I'd even enjoy it. But trying to make it past an hour or so is brutal...unless it's a piece that's actually meant to be longer than an hour (e.g. St Matthew's Passion). That's not a problem. But it's when I try to listen to the WTC straight through or something that presents a problem. Too much.

However, I can listen to all 32 Beethoven piano sonatas consecutively and be AOK.
My hat's off to you. Three Beethoven sonatas at one sitting is my max.

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Tiger » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:48 pm

IcedNote wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:I don't know, Garrett. Anyone who would listen to all 32 sonatas at a sitting....
<puts on flame suit>

I hear a much greater wealth of variety in Beethoven than Bach. I attribute some of this to the style(s) of the times, but I also attribute some of it to Beethoven being the better composer. In general, I think Beethoven has more things to say than Bach and more ways in which to say them. Therefore, I don't grow tired of Beethoven in the same way I do Bach.

<zips up flame suit>
So that's what it comes down to - Bach's not your cup of tea. :(

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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Chalkperson » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:46 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
IcedNote wrote:Hm...people are really taking what I said and running with it! I guess I should have been more specific. :)

I can listen to Bach for 30 minutes every day, no problem. Hell, I'd even enjoy it. But trying to make it past an hour or so is brutal...unless it's a piece that's actually meant to be longer than an hour (e.g. St Matthew's Passion). That's not a problem. But it's when I try to listen to the WTC straight through or something that presents a problem. Too much.

However, I can listen to all 32 Beethoven piano sonatas consecutively and be AOK.

Does that clarify anything? Or do you still think I'm nutso? ;)

-G
I don't know, Garrett. Anyone who would listen to all 32 sonatas at a sitting....
You mean, like me... :D
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Prometheus » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:47 pm

IcedNote wrote:
Or do you still think I'm nutso? ;)

-G
Not at all. Like many have expressed throughout this post, Bach is one of my favorites and I could listen to a Bach marathon and be delighted with it. That said, we all have our opinions and yours is every bit as respectable as all of ours.

jbuck919
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by jbuck919 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:13 am

IcedNote wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:I don't know, Garrett. Anyone who would listen to all 32 sonatas at a sitting....
<puts on flame suit>

I hear a much greater wealth of variety in Beethoven than Bach. I attribute some of this to the style(s) of the times, but I also attribute some of it to Beethoven being the better composer. In general, I think Beethoven has more things to say than Bach and more ways in which to say them. Therefore, I don't grow tired of Beethoven in the same way I do Bach.

<zips up flame suit>

-G
You are correct that Beethoven is Bach's (and every other composer's) superior (now it's my turn to duck) and that this status is fully embodied in the sonatas. It's just difficult for me to imagine that kind of listening marathon, especially if you allow that the music commands attention and the attention span of mere mortals is limited. Of course, the same would be true of listening to the real-time equivalent of works of Bach, but I didn't think we were talking about prodigious feats of listening necessarily.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Jack Kelso
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Jack Kelso » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:37 pm

Most musicologists don't go in for unproductive comparisons of great composers so far removed in time and style as J.S. Bach and Beethoven. The former wrote sooo much more. Does that mean the quality of Bach's work is less than one-tenth musical value per work compared with Beethoven---since he wrote more than 10-times the amount Beethoven wrote? Or course not.

How about Handel and Wagner? Same thing. Or Mozart vs. Mahler......

Popularity contests do not conjure up understanding.

Tschüß,
Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

Lance
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Re: I tire easily of listening to Bach

Post by Lance » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:41 pm

Well, you might not need those little blue pills if you listened to music MORE and ... ah well, you get the idea, eh? :P
Tiger wrote:
Lance wrote:You mean you indulge in both on a DAILY basis? No wonder they call you "Tiger!"
I owe it all to my little blue pills. :)
Lance G. Hill
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When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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