What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

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Lance
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What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Lance » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:53 pm

Are you happy with what you are finding, online or offline? Do you think the classical CD market is healthy at the moment - and what about the younger set? Are they buying CDs or downloading?

Europe still seems to be strong, as is England insofar as new issued or reissues go. It would appear to me that the USA is dropped quite a few notches. If it wasn't for some of us "older" timers, I can't imagine how much worse classical CDs markets would be in the USA. Barnes & Noble superstores and really dwindling fast insofar as selection is concerned. I hear Amazon, however, is doing good things for the classical market. One pays higher prices, but service is decent, and no post if you spend $25/USD.
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Prometheus » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:36 pm

The days of browsing through the bins at Borders and Barnes and Noble seem to be no more. It seemed as though Borders was purposely trying to get rid of its cds last year as they had multiple in store sales of 40% off all cds. I certainly bought quite a few as it was so cheap. They have never bothered to really restock since that sale and they then condensed the Classical section by two thirds.

Online has been okay. I have not ordered anything online since December as I have been slowly going through my stack of cds that I have not listened to yet before purchasing any more. I find Amazon and Arkiv to both have a good selection.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Guitarist » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:56 am

I buy most of my CDs via Amazon, but I rarely buy from them! Other vendors have better prices. Actually, unless the CD is used, MDT in England is sometimes less expensive. 95% of my purchases are SACDs, which seem to be a dying breed. The only decent CD stores are in the Bay Area, Amoeba Music. Man, I so miss browsing at Tower... :(

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by CharmNewton » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:11 am

It's never been better to be a classical music collector. I have gobs of yet unplayed CDs to prove it as well.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Ken » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:19 am

Lance wrote:and what about the younger set? Are they buying CDs or downloading?
As a member of this set (I assume!), I'll pitch in my personal experience: "yes and yes, though not at the moment."

When I do buy music I still prefer to have the hard-copy CD in front of me, jewel case, liner notes and all. Often (if not in the rule) buying the physical CD through avenues like Amazon (plus the resellers) or MDT can be just as affordable as downloading; some download services that charge by the track (like Amazon or eMusic) are such rip-offs for discs with many tracks---solo piano discs, for example. Paying a rate per minute of recorded music would be a much more suitable strategy, but this per-track model was transferred from the glorious world of the three-minute pop music song. The iTunes idea of charging a flat rate per album is OK, but usually no more affordable than the websites I'd mentioned.

That said, sometimes when I spontaneously want to hear an unknown work that I would normally not buy a whole CD for, I download this music. There are also the occasional times where (usually depending on the label) a particular album that I've got my sights on will be much cheaper as a download as as a hard copy.

But I say "not at the moment" since, as most of the members of the 'younger set', I'm not quibbling right now about whether I should buy a CD or download electronic tracks but rather about somewhat more important questions such as "where will my rent money come from?" or "which discount wurst product seems to be the least un-nutritious for the least money?" or "is it cheaper to pay the occasional black-riding fine on the streetcar or to buy an overpriced monthly pass?" Someday I'll buy music again!
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Jack Kelso » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:13 am

There are several decent department stores (e.g., Kaufhof, Karstadt, Müller-Markt, etc.) plus the SATURN stores, Multimarkt----and then online at jpc (in Hannover, but they ship world-wide).

We prefer actual old-fashioned "shopping" for nothing in particular.....until something hits our eye and bingo! But it's generally jpc when we really NEED a particular recording.

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Jack
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by josé echenique » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:25 am

Things can´t be good when important record labels like ERATO and TELDEC have been closed, and most of the big record stores like Tower and Virgin are history.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by ContrapunctusIX » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:47 am

I think the physical storefront market for CDs is pretty much dead, outside of a few good used CD shops in Boston. Going to Borders or Barnes & Noble is just depressing at this point, and the last actual record store (Newbury Comics) probably carries no more than 100 classical CDs in stock at any given time.

That said, I find the online markets to be excellent. If there's a recording I absolutely must have, there's a good chance I can find it on one of the Amazon sites, GEMM, or eBay.

Being part of the "younger set" - I would say I buy both physical CDs and mp3s. Someone else in this thread mentioned it, and my rationale is similar. If I find some specific works I want that are part of a larger collection I don't necessarily care about, I'll usually just download specific tracks. A specific example of this would be, seeing the Complete Brahms Edition on the DGG webshop but only really being interested in Wilhelm Kempff's recordings of some of the solo piano works. The entire set costs a fortune, both as mp3s and as a physical album, whereas buying only the tracks I wanted cost less than a single disc.

Another factor for me: if the mp3s are readily available at a reasonable cost and the physical album is OOP and expensive, that will usually be enough to push me in the direction of just downloading the album rather than paying a premium to have the CD in hand.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by JackC » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:11 am

I've just discovered a new resource -- my local library. The Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh is right on my way home from work. They have a huge collecton of CDs, and had most of the CDs that I had been contemplating buying recently. If you want them to get something they dont have, they'll do that too.

I have started ripping all of my CD collection into Apple lossless files. I can take out 5 CDs at a time (Big "box sets" count as only 1 CD!!) from the library. I take them home and them rip then into lossless files. (If i want to make a CD to play on regular CD players that's simple thing to be done from itunes.)

For example, I have owned the LPs of Solti's Ring cycle for a long time. I never purchased it on CD. It costs about $150. Last night I stopped by the library and took it out (along with Bernstein's Tristan- which I also had only on LP), and burned it into lossless files. It took about 10 minutes for me to park, get it, and be on my way. Since the library card is free, I "saved" about $200.

It's a great resource, and the days of my buying new CDs are over.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Ted Quanrud » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:32 am

Hi Lance --

For those of us who live "out in the sticks," things have never been better.

True, I miss the obligatory stop for a few hours in the bins at Rose Records on my annual visit to Chicago. Now, however, I don't have to wait for that annual visit -- I don't even have to leave my home for access to more CDs than any store could possibly carry.

It is also true that we have seen some major labels disappear and others becomes shadows of their former selves, but we have also seen the emergence of numerous small labels, offering a far wider selection of both repertoire and performers. We are no longer held hostage to what and who a small group of record company executives think we should be allowed to hear. And thanks to online journals and forums like this, information on these new recordings is readily available. No more waiting the the latest issue of Fanfare or ARG to arrive in the mail or at the library

I think it is likely that the CD will disappear in the not-to-distant future and be replaced by downloads. Based on my experience with downloads, I'm rather looking forward to that day. Instant gratification is very nice.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by moldyoldie » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:45 am

I find browsing and sampling at Amazon to be as easy and pleasurable as at any bricks & mortar. The selection of new and used CDs (and other media) is unsurpassed, no matter the genre.
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Lance » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:57 am

Thank you for many excellent and well-thought-out responses. It is really interesting to see that the 'younger set' is greatly attracted to downloads. At my age, I want the real thing and thus, having collected CDs since their inception, am very pleased what I have amassed in all these years (not to mention a huge LP collection). Insofar as downloads for me, I shall not take that route at this point in life no matter what.

I have also given very careful thought and consideration to the acquisition of newer artists on the scene today and am being very selective about instrumentalists, pianists included. Little consideration is being given to new recordings of orchestral works since so much has already been amassed by soloists, conductors/orchestra of the very best of those from the past. Many of us older collectors will hear new performances on the radio or in recorded form visiting with our collector friends. We're leaving the buying of new artists of today's generation largely to those of the same generation. Today's generation really must support their own generation as we have supported ours in the past. Naturally, I have my eye on artists today such as Hamelin, Volodos, Hough and a couple of handfuls of others (including James Levine and some vocaliasts) that have been leading the scene for the past 20 or more years. They are still of great interest to me. The Lang Langs, Yundi Lis, and Yuja Wangs aren't really doing much for me, hard as I try. They all sound pretty much the same - excellent technique, no soul (for the most part) in their artistry. I could not be happier with my collecting decisions!

Keep your comments coming!
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by DavidRoss » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:02 am

There are more CDs than ever before, and unlike those who revere "Golden Age" recordings and performers of the past, I find that many recent recordings and contemporary musicians equal or improve on those of the past.

Yes, B&Ms are disappearing, but those of us who don't live in major urban areas can shop internationally--quickly, conveniently, and cheaply. We scarcely miss the disappearance of large B&M record stores, though we still mourn their passing--especially Tower, a Sacramento company that was a part of many of our lives for four decades.

The used market through Amazon is okay, but Ebay sucks now. I miss the days several years ago before commercial Ebay sellers destroyed that once thriving market.

Long ago I traded the the purity of LPs for the convenience of CDs. (The industry gave us little choice!) The jury is still out on the longevity of commercial CD pressings, but so far, so good...and I trust them more than I trust digital files existing only on my hard drive--though I foresee a day when solid state drives will be durable and inexpensive enough for reliable, affordable storage media.
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by maestrob » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:54 am

When CDs first came out in 1983, I bought like a madman to replace my LP collection. Now, I buy much less: about one new disc/week, but I find that there are more than enough new releases of VERY high quality material to keep me going. The labels may change, but the music's still being made and recorded.

Mostly, I shop Amazon and MDT, and find good prices on both sites. Surely, I miss browsing in Tower at Lincoln Center (and especially their cutout store on Lower Broadway), but times change.

As for the future, well, I'll let you know when there's a shortage of new issues on the day I finish opening the 100 or so new CDs I haven't had time to hear yet! :lol:

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by absinthe » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:33 pm

I don’t know about music shops. Those in Marseille and Brighton UK are nothing to write about. I haven’t visited HMV in Oxford Street for years or anywhere in Paris that anyway seemed a dilution of what was available in London. Farringdon’s…and there was an outfit along The Strand, name eludes me right now...have gone.

The market seems buoyant but UK shops can’t carry everything. They're somewhat smaller than their American equivalents. MDT lists between 350 and 500 releases per month (March was 491). To stock comprehensively a dealer would need space for 5000 for the year plus guessing the quantities for new issues. A bit easier for mail outfits like MDT.

I download when I want to sample an album or for a single track. Just convenience. I’m no collector. But I was pleased to get Ferneyhough’s 10 minute Cassandra’s Dream Song for £0.79 from Amazon. A work I find ethereal and rather beautiful. 79p? A bargain.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Chalkperson » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:04 pm

JackC wrote:I've just discovered a new resource -- my local library. The Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh is right on my way home from work. They have a huge collecton of CDs, and had most of the CDs that I had been contemplating buying recently. If you want them to get something they dont have, they'll do that too.

I have started ripping all of my CD collection into Apple lossless files. I can take out 5 CDs at a time (Big "box sets" count as only 1 CD!!) from the library. I take them home and them rip then into lossless files. (If i want to make a CD to play on regular CD players that's simple thing to be done from itunes.)

For example, I have owned the LPs of Solti's Ring cycle for a long time. I never purchased it on CD. It costs about $150. Last night I stopped by the library and took it out (along with Bernstein's Tristan- which I also had only on LP), and burned it into lossless files. It took about 10 minutes for me to park, get it, and be on my way. Since the library card is free, I "saved" about $200.

It's a great resource, and the days of my buying new CDs are over.
Is that not illegal... :mrgreen:
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Chalkperson » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:10 pm

Having Manhattan's only CD Store (J+R) across the street allows me the luxury of browsing the racks, unfortunately there are no longer any other stores left, the thrill of finally finding a CD after looking everywhere for it is now a thing of the past, I agree that Amazon's Marketplace is the cheapest and easiest way to buy Classical Music, but, the fun is taken out of it because you can pretty much always find whatever you are looking for, as far as new releases are concerned it seems we are living in a Golden Age, so much comes out each week and the Budget Boxes offer great bargains, like Guitarist I also buy SACD's when they are available, it's not dying completely but most of the majors have stopped putting out SACD's, unfortunately...
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by JackC » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:20 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
JackC wrote:I've just discovered a new resource -- my local library. The Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh is right on my way home from work. They have a huge collecton of CDs, and had most of the CDs that I had been contemplating buying recently. If you want them to get something they dont have, they'll do that too.

I have started ripping all of my CD collection into Apple lossless files. I can take out 5 CDs at a time (Big "box sets" count as only 1 CD!!) from the library. I take them home and them rip then into lossless files. (If i want to make a CD to play on regular CD players that's simple thing to be done from itunes.)

For example, I have owned the LPs of Solti's Ring cycle for a long time. I never purchased it on CD. It costs about $150. Last night I stopped by the library and took it out (along with Bernstein's Tristan- which I also had only on LP), and burned it into lossless files. It took about 10 minutes for me to park, get it, and be on my way. Since the library card is free, I "saved" about $200.

It's a great resource, and the days of my buying new CDs are over.
Is that not illegal... :mrgreen:
I checked. You're right. It is. I'll stop right away.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Modernistfan » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:34 pm

There are several distinct, albeit interrelated issues here:

(1) Despite downloading, the issuance of physical CDs (including SACDs) does not appear to be slowing. Whatever slackening there is from the majors has more than been made up by the independents, and, more recently, by the rise of the labels directly run by orchestras and other ensembles (the London Philharmonic, London Symphony, Chicago Symphony and others). However, the majors are still active, despite the fact that they do not market aggressively in the United States, are still too focused on the physical appearance (as distinguished from the musical worth) of their artists, and have all but abandoned new recordings of contemporary music, with some exceptions (EMI has issued some important recordings of major works by Thomas Ades in recent months). Deutsche Grammophon's "20/21" series of contemporary music is moribund. The majors seem to want to constantly re-re-re-record the same old stuff, despite the fact that there are already too many recordings of the staples of the repertoire out there. Also, the majors still are top-heavy with bureaucracy and take far too long to get recordings out.

(2) As far as the United States goes, the brick-and-mortar record store is just about dead. Borders and Barnes & Noble have drastically cut their classical stock to the point where these stores are barely worth browsing. San Diego has nothing, and Los Angeles now has, basically, Amoeba and a few stores that are worth browsing for used recordings, most notably Record Surplus in West Los Angeles and CD Trader in Woodland Hills. Canterbury Records in Pasadena is also worth noting.

(3) That leaves online. I now get something like 95% of my CDs online. Amazon often has good deals, even with their shipping charges. I also must mention ArkivMusic and HBDirect. The recent strengthening of the dollar means that there are now decent prices to be had in Europe; I frequently buy from Presto Classical and MDT in England. MDT has especially good prices on BIS, Hyperion, Harmonia Mundi, and Chandos, and those prices are permanent. Those deals, coupled with the pound now drifting south of $1.50, means that those labels are now substantially cheaper ordered from MDT than in the United States. I also order from jpc in Germany; they have a lot of special deals on CPO and some other labels, and their shipping charge, although high, is on a per-order rather than a per-item basis, This means that it is most cost-effective to wait and assemble a large order, as the shipping charge then becomes almost insignificant on a per-item basis. jpc stocks many recordings of rare repertoire and contemporary music not generally available in the United States or even England, including many issues from Wergo only available in Germany. Again, with the Euro in the $1.36-$1.37 range as compared with $1.60 or so not that long ago, these prices are also improving.

I have not yet gotten into downloads, although I will probably start soon. I would like some advice on burning downloads to CDs so that I have the ability to play the downloaded music, for example, at work. When I do start buying downloads, I will certainly not buy mp3, but will buy one of the higher-resolution formats.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by stenka razin » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:59 pm

It is very depressing to be able to go to my local Borders and Barnes and Noble and find very limited new CD releases. The joy of looking for CDs in retail stoes is just about over, sadly. :( :( :( :(

In place of this, I use the following online classical venues for obtaining my classical CDs:

1-Records International-Supurb quality selection.

2-Presto-Excellent selection.

3-Amazon-Large selection and very fast.

4-Barnes and Noble-Excellent prices.

5-Arkiv-Wonderful website and hard to find CDs.

6-Buywell-Great Eloquence supplier.

7-J&R-Good online choice.
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by fishgrit » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:09 pm

I think the market for physical CDs will inevitably wither. The retail stores are declining and online stores are positioning themselves for a transition from CDs to downloads.
I think there are some positive aspects of the download market - the distribution economics are favorable, lossless and hi-rez formats are gaining ground, and it is now much easier for composers and performers/ensembles to promote and sell because they don't have to make an investment in CD production and distribution. Independent labels also now have access to good online distribution.
As the classical music download market grows I would expect there will be many more online stores and supporting sites that are dedicated to classical music. In fact I could envisage that some of these sites will want to build online communities that enhance their appeal - has CMG been approached yet to affiliate with such a site?
The other good news is that the second hand market for classical CDs is booming around here. I buy hundreds of great CDs each year in library sales and used stores for $2 -$3 each

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Seán » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:42 pm

Lance wrote:Are you happy with what you are finding, online or offline? Do you think the classical CD market is healthy at the moment - and what about the younger set? Are they buying CDs or downloading?
As a newbie I will claim to be in the younger category. :roll: I buy CDs locally and online and LPs when I can get them locally. And yes I am very happy with the range of variety of classical music that is available. There is a great deal out there that is new to me so CMG is an invaluable resource to assist me in my quest.
Seán

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Seán » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:48 pm

absinthe wrote:I don’t know about music shops. Those in Marseille and Brighton UK are nothing to write about. I haven’t visited HMV in Oxford Street for years or anywhere in Paris that anyway seemed a dilution of what was available in London. Farringdon’s…and there was an outfit along The Strand, name eludes me right now...have gone.
I was in HMV about 18 months ago and it was very good indeed.
Seán

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by dirkronk » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:40 pm

Here in south Texas, as elsewhere, new CD stock (B&N, Border's) is pretty well dead...but the used market continues to thrive (1/2 Price Books, CD Exchange, a few others). And since the retailers mainly understand rock, jazz and C&W...and remain virtually clueless about classical...I can often find incredible bargains. Of course, I can also find ridiculous prices from some individual stores where they think 15-year-old LaserLights or Vox CDs are "collectible" and slap $25 price tags on them! Dust...lots and lots of dust on their stock...

Like Guitarist, I buy via Amazon but usually not FROM them, unless I'm getting box sets (which puts me immediately into their $25/no-shipping-charge level) and/or they're competitive with the low-price dealers (usually they're not). I really do bargain hunt at "other" dealers there, however, since I have to slap that $2.99 shipping charge on every individual item.

Meanwhile, I still dabble in vinyl. A huge buy of LPs -- the last remnants of vinyl from the music library at one of the local universities -- just came into the local 1/2 Price, for example. Mostly operas and choral, which I don't usually mess with...but I managed to find about 20 items worth taking home for less than a buck each. One highlight: a near-mint copy of the Hollywood String Quartet's Kodaly album in the original Capitol pressing. Sometimes you luck out.

:wink:

Dirk

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by RebLem » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:54 pm

Just a couple days ago, I met a young man at a dog park. I'm not sure how young, but definitely under 30, and probably under 25. Conversation got around to music, and I said I loved classical music. He said he had had a casual interest in it for a while because classical music played in the background where he worked all the time, and he had grown to like some of it. He asked me if I could recommend a couple of symphony recordings for him to listen to to get him started on a more serious journey of discovery. Just on the spur of the moment, I recommended the EMI Klemperer Mahler 2, and the Levine CSO CD of the Prokofiev 1 & 5. I thought it would be a good idea to suggest one of the longest of symphonies and one of the shortest, and one in between. I don't know how it will work out for him, but the interest is out there.
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Jack Kelso » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:47 am

JackC wrote:
Chalkperson wrote:
JackC wrote:I've just discovered a new resource -- my local library. The Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh is right on my way home from work. They have a huge collecton of CDs, and had most of the CDs that I had been contemplating buying recently. If you want them to get something they dont have, they'll do that too.

I have started ripping all of my CD collection into Apple lossless files. I can take out 5 CDs at a time (Big "box sets" count as only 1 CD!!) from the library. I take them home and them rip then into lossless files. (If i want to make a CD to play on regular CD players that's simple thing to be done from itunes.)

For example, I have owned the LPs of Solti's Ring cycle for a long time. I never purchased it on CD. It costs about $150. Last night I stopped by the library and took it out (along with Bernstein's Tristan- which I also had only on LP), and burned it into lossless files. It took about 10 minutes for me to park, get it, and be on my way. Since the library card is free, I "saved" about $200.

It's a great resource, and the days of my buying new CDs are over.
Is that not illegal... :mrgreen:
I checked. You're right. It is. I'll stop right away.
Years ago I would check out CD's from the local German library and record them onto cassette tapes. The librarian knew what I was doing but didn't say it was illegal. The cassettes still sound terrific!

Tschüß,
Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Lance » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:46 am

That's what I mean. Who is ever going to know what anyone is doing with regard to copying discs, etc. Of course, it's a given that we will do our best to follow rules and regulations via the "honour" system because we each possess such personal integrity. As long as we are not selling the stuff [any copies we may have made] for profit, who can complain? On the other hand, I don't know a single person who has NOT copied something for a friend or family member. No monies are/were interchanged. This, of course, means that a sale for that particular recording is lost. So, if a person wants to listen to YOUR copy, what problem would there be in that? The problem in copying is so large that it is impossible to control. There was a time when CD makers were fixing CDs so they were NOT copyable. I do know some people who made a cassette- or reel-to-reel copy of the original CD and then transferred it back to a recordable CD.
Jack Kelso wrote:
JackC wrote:
Chalkperson wrote:
JackC wrote:I've just discovered a new resource -- my local library. The Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh is right on my way home from work. They have a huge collecton of CDs, and had most of the CDs that I had been contemplating buying recently. If you want them to get something they dont have, they'll do that too.

I have started ripping all of my CD collection into Apple lossless files. I can take out 5 CDs at a time (Big "box sets" count as only 1 CD!!) from the library. I take them home and them rip then into lossless files. (If i want to make a CD to play on regular CD players that's simple thing to be done from itunes.)

For example, I have owned the LPs of Solti's Ring cycle for a long time. I never purchased it on CD. It costs about $150. Last night I stopped by the library and took it out (along with Bernstein's Tristan- which I also had only on LP), and burned it into lossless files. It took about 10 minutes for me to park, get it, and be on my way. Since the library card is free, I "saved" about $200.

It's a great resource, and the days of my buying new CDs are over.
Is that not illegal... :mrgreen:
I checked. You're right. It is. I'll stop right away.
Years ago I would check out CD's from the local German library and record them onto cassette tapes. The librarian knew what I was doing but didn't say it was illegal. The cassettes still sound terrific!

Tschüß,
Jack
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by JackC » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:15 am

Now let's discuss how "copyrights" have been effected by the fact one can find almost anything on the internet for free, "cut and paste" it and send it anywhere or to anyone. :lol:

There comes a point at which to have laws that are not enforced and are not enforceable accomplishes nothing, other than to encourage disrespect for law generally.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Wallingford » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:30 pm

Lance, I prefer (like you) a tangible physical medium of some sort to carry my music, but with a twist: up until last fall, I subscribed to Rhapsody.com, which had (& still has, I believe) a hell of a selection--which, at the "unlimited download" fee of $14, I used for burning a terrific number of albums, or potpourri compilations of my own. Between the classicals and the pop albums, I went happily insane! And RhapsodyPlayer has its own 10-band equalizer, so I could compensate to some extent for the almost unbearably shrill sound of my computer; all I needed to do was wire my tape deck/CD burner to my computer.

Really, it does seem accepting what "imperfect" albums the record companies dish out, is all but a thing of the past.
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by josé echenique » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:07 am

I think the Classical Music market is very different from others. Most of us, the Beethoven buyers, would want the original cd because we want the information, the artwork, and would like to keep the recording for many, many years (remember that a burned cd will certainly not last very long, maybe that´s ok with pop music because kids will listen to a song for 6 months and then move to something else).
I admit I have made copies of deleted recordings or very hard to get recordings, for friends, but if the recording had been available they would have purchased it.

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by DavidRoss » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:28 am

Wallingford wrote:up until last fall, I subscribed to Rhapsody.com
I love resources like Rhapsody and last.fm and naxos.com that allow me to hear recordings that I'm considering purchasing. (Although the sound quality is not very good, it's more than adequate for auditioning works and performances.) If I like something I buy it. These days I rarely buy CDs that I haven't heard first--at least substantial tracks, enough to tell me whether I want it or not. And I'm also grateful that the cost of CDs is so low. I can buy a recording of the San Francisco Symphony that I can hear dozens or hundreds of times for a fraction of the cost of attending one live performance of the work. What a bargain!

Furthermore, I believe that people are entitled to be compensated for their work. Although I do some volunteer work, for the most part I expect to be paid for my labor. Just because someone is a musician or recording engineer or producer or CD press operator or packager or shipping clerk or even marketer does not mean he or she is not entitled to be paid for their labor instead of being ripped off. Even if lots of folks are sexually abusing their children and enforcement of child protection laws is so imperfect that most will never be caught, it still doesn't seem right to me.
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Corlyss_D » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:09 pm

Lance wrote:Are you happy with what you are finding, online or offline?
Yes.
Do you think the classical CD market is healthy at the moment
I'm concerned the record companies haven't figured out the handle on either pricing or delivery medium. I don't think we'll get a clearer picture of the future of the music market until they do. Meanwhile, Apple is creating the standard by default. It's as if the trucking companies were setting prices on physical goods delivered, regardless of what the manufacturer says. Logically, it makes no sense.
- and what about the younger set? Are they buying CDs or downloading?
I dl stuff I can't get my hands on at all or for a reasonable price. Apple has a surprising lot of albums NLA in physcial form.

I gave up on brick-and-mortar stores. The minute Music Boulevard became faster and cheaper and had a wider selection of classical music, it was only a matter of time before I quit patronizing them. I don't even visit used bookstores any more because brick-and-mortar stores are so expensive compared to what I can get on Amazon from 3rd parties and because I have so much that I need to avoid expensive impulse buying. I buy what I'm looking for hb on Amazon often for $0.01 plus postage. I rarely pay more than $5/book at the outside. The minimum price at a really good used bookstore just 5 mi. away is half list price + tax for pbs and minimum $13 + tax for hbs, more if the book is popular, hard to get, ordered, or rare. It just makes no economic sense for me to shop brick-and-mortar any more.
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by bombasticDarren » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:37 pm

Seán wrote:I was in HMV about 18 months ago and it was very good indeed.
I pop into the Oxford Street branch every couple of months Sean and I have noticed both the size of the displays decrease as well as the back catalogue they hold - it is less deep now :x

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Seán » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:54 pm

bombasticDarren wrote:
Seán wrote:I was in HMV about 18 months ago and it was very good indeed.
I pop into the Oxford Street branch every couple of months Sean and I have noticed both the size of the displays decrease as well as the back catalogue they hold - it is less deep now :x
That's a real pity. Very soon we will only be able to get CDs on the net...the days of browsing in shops will be gone, forever. :(
Seán

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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Chalkperson » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:15 pm

Seán wrote:
bombasticDarren wrote:
Seán wrote:I was in HMV about 18 months ago and it was very good indeed.
I pop into the Oxford Street branch every couple of months Sean and I have noticed both the size of the displays decrease as well as the back catalogue they hold - it is less deep now :x
That's a real pity. Very soon we will only be able to get CDs on the net...the days of browsing in shops will be gone, forever. :(
Eventually, Internet Retailers won't even keep the stock themselves, you will pay them and they will place the Order with the Distributer which will in turn ship you the product...the Retailer will end up as the middleman who get's paid a service charge, consumers are more likely to buy from Retailers than Distributors because they are able to showcase many other distributors CD's, it also won't be that long before Naxos owns the distribution rights to the lion's share of Classical Labels, they keep adding them all the time...
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Lance » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:58 pm

I believe this is what ArkivMusic and H&B are already doing as are some of Amazon's suppliers ... shipping directly from the distributor, such as Qualiton, Naxos, etc. It is also happening with DVDs.
Chalkperson wrote:
Seán wrote:
bombasticDarren wrote:
Seán wrote:I was in HMV about 18 months ago and it was very good indeed.
I pop into the Oxford Street branch every couple of months Sean and I have noticed both the size of the displays decrease as well as the back catalogue they hold - it is less deep now :x
That's a real pity. Very soon we will only be able to get CDs on the net...the days of browsing in shops will be gone, forever. :(
Eventually, Internet Retailers won't even keep the stock themselves, you will pay them and they will place the Order with the Distributer which will in turn ship you the product...the Retailer will end up as the middleman who get's paid a service charge, consumers are more likely to buy from Retailers than Distributors because they are able to showcase many other distributors CD's, it also won't be that long before Naxos owns the distribution rights to the lion's share of Classical Labels, they keep adding them all the time...
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by RebLem » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:21 pm

Lance wrote:I believe this is what ArkivMusic and H&B are already doing as are some of Amazon's suppliers ... shipping directly from the distributor, such as Qualiton, Naxos, etc. It is also happening with DVDs.
I got one CD in an Archiv order shipped to me directly from Ontario just last week. I think it was an Analekta.
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Chalkperson » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:01 pm

RebLem wrote:
Lance wrote:I believe this is what ArkivMusic and H&B are already doing as are some of Amazon's suppliers ... shipping directly from the distributor, such as Qualiton, Naxos, etc. It is also happening with DVDs.
I got one CD in an Archiv order shipped to me directly from Ontario just last week. I think it was an Analekta.
Yes, ArkivMusik started off this way of selling CD's, when they first opened I had a very interesting chat with their CEO, I called because I ordered six discs which arrived in no less than five seperate deliveries, I enquired if this is why the Shipping Charges were so high, he dodged the question, but, basically explained that because the Arkiv CD reissue program all came direct from Arkiv then using the distributers warehouses made the most sense...I can see most Classical Music retailing eventually going this way, it also means slightly more profit for the Distributors...
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Jack Kelso » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:47 am

JackC wrote:Now let's discuss how "copyrights" have been effected by the fact one can find almost anything on the internet for free, "cut and paste" it and send it anywhere or to anyone. :lol:

There comes a point at which to have laws that are not enforced and are not enforceable accomplishes nothing, other than to encourage disrespect for law generally.
Well, how about DVD recorders? We record movies from t.v.---and there's nothing wrong with that. If there were, why do they manufacture those DVD recorders in the first place? Of course, these movies have to be watched in German (doesn't matter to us), whereas if you buy them you get them in English (as well as other languages) too!

Tschüß,
Jack
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Re: What's your opinion of the classical CD market?

Post by Chalkperson » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:33 am

Jack Kelso wrote:
JackC wrote:Now let's discuss how "copyrights" have been effected by the fact one can find almost anything on the internet for free, "cut and paste" it and send it anywhere or to anyone. :lol:

There comes a point at which to have laws that are not enforced and are not enforceable accomplishes nothing, other than to encourage disrespect for law generally.
Well, how about DVD recorders? We record movies from t.v.---and there's nothing wrong with that. If there were, why do they manufacture those DVD recorders in the first place? Of course, these movies have to be watched in German (doesn't matter to us), whereas if you buy them you get them in English (as well as other languages) too!
Copyright Law is very simple, you can record Television, Music, Radio Shows and anything that is Broadcast and it is not illegal, if however, you pass that copy on to a friend to view , or, try to sell it to someone then you have broken the Law, if you rip a CD and sell or give away the original CD then if you do not destroy your copy then you have broken the Law, if you rip a CD and no longer want the original disc then it must be destroyed, you can't just give it away, of course as it is highly unlikely that you will be discovered or face legal action then you are expected to remain within the Law, it's like running a red light in your car, most likely nobody will see you doing it, but, if someone does then you must expect to be ticketed for this offense...as I said previously it is all about prior knowledge, if you knowingly download something that is Copyrighted from the Internet then you have broken the Law...best..chalkie
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