On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

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On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Lance » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:10 am

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Elly Ney, pianist

I have long been an admirer of German pianist ELLY NEY and have collected all of her recordings over a period of years. I discovered, on another board, a discussion about Elly Ney, pros and cons. My own admiration for the pianist—upon learning about her Nazi associations (she was sometimes called Hitler's favourite pianist)—dropped considerably—not as an artist but as human being. I was so enamoured of Elly Ney's playing, especially of Beethoven, that when I visited Bavaria, I arranged to stop at her gravesite in Tutzing where her gravestone and plot were covered with mounds of beautiful flowers (something that has been done nearly every day from what I learned). Here is one person's analysis/thoughts which, I copy from the other board.
______________________________

M. R. Simpson states:

The following is an article written by British pianist Stephen Hough on the subject, entitled, "Adolph Hitler's favorite pianist", and published March 23rd, 2009:

"Most of us spend most of our moral lives in the middle - sitting on a fence broader then the gardens on either side. Our days are filled with small acts of cowardice and laziness alternating randomly with small acts of generosity and kindness. The big gestures, whether courageous or cruel, usually pass us by - more often through circumstance than through choice. But at certain times in history, circumstance demands of people difficult or demanding choices, forcing them to confront virtue and vice in real situations, when such choices involve life and death ... for themselves and for others. There were two female pianists in the last century, both Beethoven specialists and exact contemporaries, who did not sit on the broad fence like most of us, but who stood in the gardens on opposite sides with utter conviction and determination.

Elly Ney (1882-1968), it is said, was a "fanatical supporter" of Hitler. She voluntarily joined the Nazi party in 1937, participated in 'cultural education camps', became an honorary member of the League of German Girls, and wrote adoring letters to "mein Führer". According to the pianist Edward Kilenyi, who was a captain in the U.S. Army at the time, she would read extracts of Hitler's writings and solder's letters from the concert stage; and in Salzburg, where she taught during the war, she used to honor Beethoven's bust with a Nazi salute. After the war she was banned from performing in Bonn, and a request in 1952 for this ban to be lifted was refused. Her career, which had flourished in the earlier years of the century, never recovered, and just last year the mayor of Tutzing, the small Bavarian town where she died, finally removed her portrait from the Town Hall.

Dame Myra Hess (1890-1965) could easily have escaped safely to America at the outbreak of the Second World War, where she had a huge following, but she chose to abandon her international career and stay at home in central London during the worst of the bombing. After the outbreak of war all public places of entertainment were closed, but she convinced the government to allow her to start a daily series of concerts at the National Gallery which began on 10th October 1939 and continued until 1946. Although all the paintings and sculptures had been removed for safe-keeping, and occasional daytime air raids meant that the audience and musicians had to retreat to the basement, 824,000 people attended 1,698 concerts during London's darkest days. Dame Myra felt that music could give a geniune moral boost to people facing terror and hardship, and she prepared to risk her life and livelihood for that cause.

Most of us fall into the middle of these two extremes, and our various shades of moral grey can fluctuate daily, depending on all kinds of varying circumstances. Some artists who left Nazi Germany were courageous, some selfish; some who stayed there were courageous, some selfish. Some began well but descended to evil and collaboration; others began badly but later discovered heroism and humanity. I mean to prove nothing by placing these two formidable ladies next to each other in this way, except, perhaps, to pose the question: is there a moral dimension to music? Can a person who does evil things be a great artist?"
_______________________________________

Comments and thoughts? I wish M. R. Simpson would join our board. You may also want to check into the following link:

http://www.proclassics.de/EllyNey/elly-ney2e.htm
Lance G. Hill
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When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by John F » Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:43 am

Myra Hess was a patriotic Englishwoman, loyal to her king and country, and Elly Ney was a patriotic German, loyal to her Führer and country. Stephen Hough may feel that these are two extremes, but I think it's both simpler and more complex than that.
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Istvan » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:41 am

"Elly Ney was a patriotic German, loyal to her Führer and country."

I don't know if one can say that Ney was "loyal to her country" since she was too short-sighted to see that "her Führer" would eventually destroy it. If by country one means countrymen, she was distinctly disloyal since she apparently approved of them being murdered by the million.
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by John F » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:08 am

Istvan wrote:I don't know if one can say that Ney was "loyal to her country" since she was too short-sighted to see that "her Führer" would eventually destroy it.
This is not only hindsight, which neither Myra Hess nor Elly Ney had, but also an ahistorical view that ignores too much of what actually happened.

In 1937, when Elly Ney joined the Nazi Party, the Nazis had not destroyed her country but to the contrary, rescued it from economic catastrophe and even brought nearly full employment. (U.S. unemployment in 1937 was about 18%.) Moreover, the Nazi regime had begun to restore Germany to a position of international influence, and to restore German self-respect that had been badly damaged by defeat in World War I and the oppressive Treaty of Versailles. That this was done by dictatorial means mattered less in a nation which had experienced less than 15 years of democratic government in its entire history, years in which parliamentary government proved ineffective and left the country in terrible economic shape.

Under the circumstances, it would have taken more than "foresight" to see that ruin lay ahead, it would have taken something like second sight. Elly Ney can hardly be blamed for lacking that!

This is not an apologia for the Nazis but an explanation why, for a non-Jewish German like Elly Ney and millions of others, patriotic loyalty to her country also entailed loyalty to its political leader. Now that terrible episode is over, most Germans see that Nazi rule did indeed finally destroy the nation, and Elly Ney's stubborn refusal to admit she was wrong, like Winifred Wagner's, rightly made her something of a pariah.

But, I should think, no less of an artist, which is why Lance brought up Elly Ney in the first place.
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Lance » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:58 am

Anything and everything about World War II is and always has been vastly interesting to me, especially with regard to the musical arts and the Holocaust.

I found this article, which alludes to anti-Semitism of Bach, Chopin and others. I had not heretofore seen references to anti-Semitism of these composers and, frankly, find it surprising.

Here's the link:

http://www.theartsdesk.com/index.php?op ... &Itemid=24
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Istvan » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:27 am

John Francis has passed over the small matter of "KristallNacht", after which no-one could ignore what lay in store for a large section of the community, though Hitler at that period took care to 'delegate' all 'unpleasant' measures. I have no time for people like Ney, Karajan (conducting 'Tristan' to celebrate the Fall of Paris) or, even less, Goodall, a traitor to his country and to Wagner.
Last edited by Istvan on Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by JackC » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:16 am

John F wrote:
In 1937, when Elly Ney joined the Nazi Party, the Nazis had not destroyed her country but to the contrary, rescued it from economic catastrophe and even brought nearly full employment. (U.S. unemployment in 1937 was about 18%.) Moreover, the Nazi regime had begun to restore Germany to a position of international influence, and to restore German self-respect that had been badly damaged by defeat in World War I and the oppressive Treaty of Versailles. That this was done by dictatorial means mattered less in a nation which had experienced less than 15 years of democratic government in its entire history, years in which parliamentary government proved ineffective and left the country in terrible economic shape.

Under the circumstances, it would have taken more than "foresight" to see that ruin lay ahead, it would have taken something like second sight. Elly Ney can hardly be blamed for lacking that!
That is an awfully generous description of Nazi rule prior to WWII. There were other sides to the regime that were visible to all who were not prepared to close their eyes to them.

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Werner » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:18 pm

I note your comment, Jack, and while I'd agree that the potential of the Nazi regime SHOULD have been obvious to all - looking at it from today's perspective - I wonder how many people on this side of the Atlantic could see it then (in 1937.)

I don't know where you were then. I was a teenager living in Germany then, with an inkling of what was coming, indeed, attending school in England for two years, while returning home for school vacationa before being able to come to America with my family the following year.

But I digress - reading John Francis' post, on which you commented, my impression is that it was the impression of political and economic progress that held many of the (not racially endangered) Germans in thrall. I suspect that that's what impelled Elly Ney - whom I don't esteem as highly artistically as others do, and certainly not as a person, considering what else e know -to join the Party.

Time moved on - with a new dimension to life in America - then military service (From Normandy to the German/Czech border area - and my first return to Europe, with Donald, in 1965. Our trip took us through Bayreuth, where Bruce Hungerford was on the faculty of the Bayreuth Master Classes, run by Friedelind Wagner. Bayreuth was of course full of displays of pictures of earlier Festivals, some prominently featuring Elly Ney.

Of course, Ney was not the only one seduced by Hitler. Another one was Winifred Wagner, Friedelind's mother - but NOT Friedelind, who spent the wartime years in the US. A story in iteslf.
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by JackC » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:06 pm

Werner wrote:I note your comment, Jack, and while I'd agree that the potential of the Nazi regime SHOULD have been obvious to all - looking at it from today's perspective - I wonder how many people on this side of the Atlantic could see it then (in 1937.)

I don't know where you were then. I was a teenager living in Germany then, with an inkling of what was coming, indeed, attending school in England for two years, while returning home for school vacationa before being able to come to America with my family the following year.

But I digress - reading John Francis' post, on which you commented, my impression is that it was the impression of political and economic progress that held many of the (not racially endangered) Germans in thrall. I suspect that that's what impelled Elly Ney - whom I don't esteem as highly artistically as others do, and certainly not as a person, considering what else e know -to join the Party.

Time moved on - with a new dimension to life in America - then military service (From Normandy to the German/Czech border area - and my first return to Europe, with Donald, in 1965. Our trip took us through Bayreuth, where Bruce Hungerford was on the faculty of the Bayreuth Master Classes, run by Friedelind Wagner. Bayreuth was of course full of displays of pictures of earlier Festivals, some prominently featuring Elly Ney.

Of course, Ney was not the only one seduced by Hitler. Another one was Winifred Wagner, Friedelind's mother - but NOT Friedelind, who spent the wartime years in the US. A story in iteslf.
I think the things about Hitler that drew admiration from many Germans and from many others around the world, including some in the US, are fairly well understood. I suspect that if Hitler had simply stopped after the Munich Conference in 1938 and avoided war, he would today be remembered as one of the great German statesmen - even if he had deported every Jew in Germany.

But there were deeply troubling things going on in Germany after 1933 that SHOULD have been an issue even for those without the benefit of hindsight. The hateful verbal and physical attacks on the Jews, and attempt to remove the Jews entirely from German life were visible to all.

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by JackC » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:16 pm

JackC wrote:
Werner wrote:I note your comment, Jack, and while I'd agree that the potential of the Nazi regime SHOULD have been obvious to all - looking at it from today's perspective - I wonder how many people on this side of the Atlantic could see it then (in 1937.)

I don't know where you were then. I was a teenager living in Germany then, with an inkling of what was coming, indeed, attending school in England for two years, while returning home for school vacationa before being able to come to America with my family the following year.

But I digress - reading John Francis' post, on which you commented, my impression is that it was the impression of political and economic progress that held many of the (not racially endangered) Germans in thrall. I suspect that that's what impelled Elly Ney - whom I don't esteem as highly artistically as others do, and certainly not as a person, considering what else e know -to join the Party.

Time moved on - with a new dimension to life in America - then military service (From Normandy to the German/Czech border area - and my first return to Europe, with Donald, in 1965. Our trip took us through Bayreuth, where Bruce Hungerford was on the faculty of the Bayreuth Master Classes, run by Friedelind Wagner. Bayreuth was of course full of displays of pictures of earlier Festivals, some prominently featuring Elly Ney.

Of course, Ney was not the only one seduced by Hitler. Another one was Winifred Wagner, Friedelind's mother - but NOT Friedelind, who spent the wartime years in the US. A story in iteslf.
I think the things about Hitler that drew admiration from many Germans and from many others around the world, including some in the US, are fairly well understood. I suspect that if Hitler had simply stopped after the Munich Conference in 1938 and avoided war, he would today be remembered as one of the great German statesmen - even if he had deported every Jew in Germany.

But there were deeply troubling things going on in Germany after 1933 that SHOULD have been an issue even for those without the benefit of hindsight. The hateful verbal and physical attacks on the Jews, and attempt to remove the Jews entirely from German life were visible to all.

But I was not alive then, and really don't intend to pick an argument with anyone who was and knows a lot more about the times than I do.

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Modernistfan » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:07 pm

I have to respectfully disagree with John F and agree with others who state that Elly Ney should have been able to see what was going on, even in the musical sphere (the banning of the music of Felix Mendelssohn and other "Jewish" composers, as well as the music of other composers deemed "degenerate" (entartet), the firing of Jewish members of the Berlin Philharmonic, including its concertmaster Szymon Goldberg, and other orchestras, the dismissal of many esteemed pedagogues, and much more). The unfortunate fact is that Ms. Ney was a raving antisemite well before 1933.

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by fmnewyork » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:27 pm

Lance wrote:I have long been an admirer of German pianist ELLY NEY and have collected all of her recordings over a period of years.
Putting aside the philosophical and moral questions this post raises and instead focusing on her discography, Elly Ney is one of those pianists for whom I don't really know what all of her recordings entains. She made 78s and LPs on both major and minor labels. Some things even appeared on 45rpm. Colosseum have reissued all the recordings she made for them in a nice CD box, but her recordings for DG and EMI Electrola are more elusive. Does Lance or anyone have a good listing of all her non Colosseum recordings?

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by John F » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:26 pm

Kristallnacht was still in the future when Elly Ney joined the Nazi Party in 1937, and of course when Herbert von Karajan joined in 1933. It's history, folks.
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Lance » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:44 am

Yes, I have LPs or CD recordings of just about everything Ney recorded. I will attempt to formulate a listing for you embracing both formats and all labels. The very first time I heard Elly Ney play on discs, I felt I was hearing something very, very special. She had a tone quality that was rich and full, beyond words. A simple Prelude No. 1 in C Major from the Bach WTC (recorded by Colosseum) was the finest version of it I have ever heard. If you have the Colosseum box, the disc with that particular Prelude was defective in the production. I caught it immediately and Colosseum replaced the disc. As I recall, there was NO Prelude & Fugue No. 1 on the original CD transfer! What a bummer.
fmnewyork wrote:
Lance wrote:I have long been an admirer of German pianist ELLY NEY and have collected all of her recordings over a period of years.
Putting aside the philosophical and moral questions this post raises and instead focusing on her discography, Elly Ney is one of those pianists for whom I don't really know what all of her recordings entains. She made 78s and LPs on both major and minor labels. Some things even appeared on 45rpm. Colosseum have reissued all the recordings she made for them in a nice CD box, but her recordings for DG and EMI Electrola are more elusive. Does Lance or anyone have a good listing of all her non Colosseum recordings?

Farhan
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Chalkperson » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:51 am

I have pretty much all of her recordings too...but, I stopped playing them when I found out here on CMG about her Nazi affiliations...but I did enjoy them before that...
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by fmnewyork » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:18 pm

Lance wrote: If you have the Colosseum box, the disc with that particular Prelude was defective in the production.
Well, I have the box, but first I bought the 10 separate CDs that were issued at full price before there was a box. Then the box came out with 2 bonus CDs containing the rest of her Colosseum recording plus unissued material. I wasn't too happy about it, but I bought the box too. Mine at least is not defective and contains the Bach.

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by fmnewyork » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:32 pm

I'll get things started and post all the Elly Ney recordings that I have as it's easy for me to extract this info from my database. That should make it easier for others to just add anything missing to this list.

CDs
A CLASSICAL RECORD 39 Brahms, Schubert, Reger, Schumann
BAYER 200 035 Beethoven Cello Sonatas #3-5 (Hoelscher)
BAYER 200 048 Beethoven Sonatas #21,#27,#32,
BIDDULPH 82045 Mozart Concerto #15 (Hoogstraten), Beethoven Con #2 (Zaun), Strauss Burleske (Hoogstraten)
BIDDULPH LHW 33 Beethoven Sonata #4,32, Andante Favori, more
CLASSICO 2024 Beethoven Sonatas #8,#21,#31
COLOSSEUM 9025-12 Complete Colosseum Recordings
HANSSLER 94.047 Beethoven Concerto #2 (Zaun), Trio #1
HANSSLER 94.048 Mozart Concerto #15 (Hoogstraten), Schumann Quartet, Beethoven, Haydn
MELODRAM 18015 Brahms Concerto #2 (Konwitschny), Beethoven Sonata #23
PEARL 9170 Brahms Concerto #2 (Max Fiedler), Schubert Wanderer Fant, Beet Var
TAHRA 444/6 Tribute to Karl Bohm (Emperor Concerto)

LPs
DG LPEM 19084 Beethoven Sonatas #8,#31
DG LPEM 19085 Beethoven Sonatas #14,#23
ELECTROLA WDLP 561 Strauss Burleske (Hoogstraten), Schumann Kinderscenen
URANIA URLP 7101 Strauss Burleske (Rother)

45rpm
ELECTROLA 7 EGW 11-8375 Brahms Waltz Op. 39/15, Rhapsody Op. 119/4, Intermezzi Op. 76/3 & 117/1

There is an EMI Electrola LP with the Schubert Trout Quintet that I don't own. She also did the other Beethoven Cello Sonatas plus Variations with Hoelscher. Other than that I don't know what's missing from this list. It surely lists the vast majority of her recordings but I would be interested in knowing about additional recordings.

Farhan

[edit] Just searching the internet right now I found there are a couple of Melodiya LP with Beethoven Sonatas and a set of Variations that I had missed.
Farhan

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Lance » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:19 pm

Farhan, it looks like you've got most of them. I have other issues of the same material (in some cases) and perhaps you might want to have this information as well.

ALL WITH PIANIST ELLY NEY:

CD additions:
•Biddulph LHW 003-4 - Brahms: PC #2 w/Max Fiedler, Berlin PO
•Membran [TIM] 221.741 [2 CDs] - Beethoven: PC #5 (w/Bohm, 1944); Mozart: PC #15 (w/van Hoogstraten, 1935); Schubert: Wanderer Fantasy; Beethoven: Sonata #32 (1936); Strauss: Burleske (w/van Hoogstraten, 1932)
•Piano Library 329 (Italy) - Brahms: PC #2 w/Max Fiedler, Berlin PO; Schubert: Wanderer Fantasy; Beethoven: 6 Variations on La Molinara
•Urania 4233 - Beethoven: Sonata #23 (Live, 1952); Brahms: PC #2 w/Leipzig GHO, Konwitschny (Live, 1955)
•Weitblick 0020 - Brahms; PC #2 w/Leipzig GHO, Kontischny (Live, 1955)
•Arioso 007 - Beethoven: PC #5 w/K Bohm, BPO (1944)
•Naxos 8.111217 - [Women at the Piano, Vol. 3] - Beethoven: Andante Favori (1938/HMV)

LP additions
•Electrola E-83014 - Beethoven: Sonata #32 (two versions)
•Electrola/Odeon E-80838 - Schubert "Trout" Quintet [Only issue I know of and don't believe it was ever reissued on CD.]
•Heliodor 88010 - Brahms: PC #2 w/Berlin PO, Max Fiedler
•Heliodor 2548.723 - Beethoven: Piano Sonatas 8, 14, 23
•American Decca DL-9536 - Brahms PC #2 w/Berlin PO, Max Fiedler
•Electrola/Dacapo C047.29148 - Beethoven: Sonata #32 (1936); Andante Favori and other pieces + Elly Ney speaking
•Telefunken SMB 25048-T/1-3: Beethoven Complete Works for Cello and Piano w/Ludwig Hoelscher, cello [I bought this when I was in Munich, Germany years ago - have never seen another copy. Only Sonatas 3-5 have been reissued on CD by Bayer]
•Urania URRS-7-10 - Beethoven: PC #5 w/VPO, K Bohm
•10-inch Electrola E-60564 - Beethoven Trio in D Op 70/1 (Ghost) w/M-Strub, L-Hoelscher; Andante Favori
•10-inch Electrola WDLP 561: Strauss: Burleske w/Berlin State Opera Orch, van Hoogstraten; Schumann: Kinderscenen, Op. 15 (complete)
•Europa 111055.8 - Mozart: Sonata in A, K. 331; Beethoven: Sonata #32 in C Minor, Op. 111
•Klassic/Hörzu/Electrola - Beethoven: Sonatas 14 and 31
•Royale/Allegro 1556 - Anton Rubinstein: Piano Concerto #4 in D Minor, Op. 70 [Questionable attribution. Have never been able to confirm Elly Ney as the pianist though I have seen it written that she was. If you know otherwise, please advise.]
fmnewyork wrote:I'll get things started and post all the Elly Ney recordings that I have as it's easy for me to extract this info from my database. That should make it easier for others to just add anything missing to this list.

CDs
A CLASSICAL RECORD 39 Brahms, Schubert, Reger, Schumann
BAYER 200 035 Beethoven Cello Sonatas #3-5 (Hoelscher)
BAYER 200 048 Beethoven Sonatas #21,#27,#32,
BIDDULPH 82045 Mozart Concerto #15 (Hoogstraten), Beethoven Con #2 (Zaun), Strauss Burleske (Hoogstraten)
BIDDULPH LHW 33 Beethoven Sonata #4,32, Andante Favori, more
CLASSICO 2024 Beethoven Sonatas #8,#21,#31
COLOSSEUM 9025-12 Complete Colosseum Recordings
HANSSLER 94.047 Beethoven Concerto #2 (Zaun), Trio #1
HANSSLER 94.048 Mozart Concerto #15 (Hoogstraten), Schumann Quartet, Beethoven, Haydn
MELODRAM 18015 Brahms Concerto #2 (Konwitschny), Beethoven Sonata #23
PEARL 9170 Brahms Concerto #2 (Max Fiedler), Schubert Wanderer Fant, Beet Var
TAHRA 444/6 Tribute to Karl Bohm (Emperor Concerto)

LPs
DG LPEM 19084 Beethoven Sonatas #8,#31
DG LPEM 19085 Beethoven Sonatas #14,#23
ELECTROLA WDLP 561 Strauss Burleske (Hoogstraten), Schumann Kinderscenen
URANIA URLP 7101 Strauss Burleske (Rother)

45rpm
ELECTROLA 7 EGW 11-8375 Brahms Waltz Op. 39/15, Rhapsody Op. 119/4, Intermezzi Op. 76/3 & 117/1

There is an EMI Electrola LP with the Schubert Trout Quintet that I don't own. She also did the other Beethoven Cello Sonatas plus Variations with Hoelscher. Other than that I don't know what's missing from this list. It surely lists the vast majority of her recordings but I would be interested in knowing about additional recordings.

Farhan

[edit] Just searching the internet right now I found there are a couple of Melodiya LP with Beethoven Sonatas and a set of Variations that I had missed.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by lennygoran » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:11 pm

>it looks like you've got most of them<

Just today I watched the history channels show on the rise of Hitler--wonderful footage that gives you an idea of how Germans felt as Hitler rose to power. I really recommend this show. They had a little of the famous film Triumph of the Will from Riefenstahl which I was surprised to learn is still banned in Germany--they kept practicing how they filmed it maybe 50 times until they reached "perfection." And then there was all this amateur footage never before shown on TV. Regards, Len

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by fmnewyork » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:41 am

I just ordered the 2 Melodiya LPs so it appears that the main things I'm missing are the Schubert Trout and the remaining Beethoven works for piano and cello. I don't think the Trout will be too difficult to pick up, but the Beethoven set is rare and quite expensive.

I'm wondering about the Brahms Waltz in Ab on my 45rpm. I've seen an EMI LP with the other Brahms works, but not the Waltz. Could the Waltz be unique to that 45rpm? Also, the Urania LP with the Burleske looks to be little known. I checked popsike and did not find any recorded sales on it, which surprises me.

I have no information about the Rubinstein 4th.
Farhan

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by fmnewyork » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:50 am

Just realized that when listing Elly Ney's recordings we didn't consider the 78s she did that have not been reissued on CD. Here's a list of 78s that haven't been reissued (I skipped the chamber works and concertos that have been reissued):

Brunswick 78s
Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 #2
Brahms Hungarian Dance #2
Schubert/Liszt Hark Hark the Lark
Schubert/Liszt Soiree de Vienne # 6
Mendelssohn Spinning Song
Schubert Moment Musical #3
Beethoven/D'Albert Ecossaises
Debussy Feux d'artifice
Carreno Petite Valse
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody #8 (abbrev)
Chopin Etude Op. 10 #3

Electrola 78s
Schubert Moment Musical #4
Schubert Impromptu Op. 142 #4
Mozart Rondo in A Minor
Brahms Intermezzo Op. 117 #1
Brahms Rhapsody Op. 119 #4
Brahms Intermezzo Op. 76 #3
Brahms Waltz Op. 39 #15
Mozart Sonata K. 331

A few of the Electrola 78s were reissued on LP and 45rpm, but not on CD.

Looks like a good CD reissue project for an enterprising label. Until then, acquiring a complete Elly Ney collection is all the harder!

Farhan
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by Lance » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:21 pm

Farhan: Thank you for this 78-rpm Elly Ney update. There are, of course, some great gems among the Brunswick and Electrolas from the days of 78s. If I could locate someone who has all those 78s, I would enlist their services to make good transfers to CD. Do you know any 78-rpm collector who might have them all? Perhaps IPAM might be able to do this. :)
fmnewyork wrote:Just realized that when listing Elly Ney's recordings we didn't consider the 78s she did that have not been reissued on CD. Here's a list of 78s that haven't been reissued (I skipped the chamber works and concertos that have been reissued):

Brunswick 78s
Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 #2
Brahms Hungarian Dance #2
Schubert/Liszt Hark Hark the Lark
Schubert/Liszt Soiree de Vienne # 6
Mendelssohn Spinning Song
Schubert Moment Musical #3
Beethoven/D'Albert Ecossaises
Debussy Feux d'artifice
Carreno Petite Valse
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody #8 (abbrev)
Chopin Etude Op. 10 #3

Electrola 78s
Schubert Moment Musical #4
Schubert Impromptu Op. 142 #4
Mozart Rondo in A Minor
Brahms Intermezzo Op. 117 #1
Brahms Rhapsody Op. 119 #4
Brahms Intermezzo Op. 76 #3
Brahms Waltz Op. 39 #15
Mozart Sonata K. 331

A few of the Electrola 78s were reissued on LP and 45rpm, but not on CD.

Looks like a good CD reissue project for an enterprising label. Until then, acquiring a complete Elly Ney collection is all the harder!

Farhan
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by fmnewyork » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:38 am

Gathering up all the 78s is not a problem. What we really need is to find a label interested in issuing them. All of the 78s may not all fit on one CD though. It's going to be very close, but ultimately something may have to be left off.

I'll make a few inquiries and see if there's any interest at all in such a project. That interest always increases if there are people willing to sponsor the project either by buying advance copies or donating money towards the production expenses. Is there anyone willing to support this project in that way?

Farhan
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Re: On another board, a discussion about ELLY NEY, pianist

Post by fmnewyork » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:24 pm

fmnewyork
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:36 pm
I listened to a few of her 78s over the weekend and also did a bit more research on her 78rpm recordings. I found that there are additional chamber music recordings on 78rpm that have never been reissued.

There's a Dvorak Trio Op. 90 with a movement from the Mozart Trio K. 564 as a filler on the last side.
There's a movement from a Haydn Trio on a strange 78 where the other side contains a recording by Kempff.
There's a Schubert Trio Op. 99.
There's a record with Hoelscher containing a Boccherini Rondo and the Gluck Melody.
The Schubert Trout Quintet 78s has a movement from the Trio Op. 100 as a filler.
One additional solo item looks be be some Schubert dances included as a filler in the Wanderer Fantasy 78 set.

Lastly I found an error in my earlier posting. She plays Soiree de Vienne #7 rather than #6. The record doesn't state which one so naturally one would assume No. 6, but it's #7. The earlier post has been edited and corrected.

I'm now starting to think that if we take all the information found in the various postings in this thread we'd have a near complete if not complete Elly Ney discography (not listing every issue of every recording, but accounting for all of her recordings).

Farhan


CharmNewton
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:00 pm
I haven't seen mention of her recording of the Brahms Op. 8 Trio with Schub and Hoelscher, issued on Brunswick 78s in the U.S. Has that recording been re-issued?

John


fmnewyork
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:40 pm
CharmNewton wrote:
I haven't seen mention of her recording of the Brahms Op. 8 Trio with Schub and Hoelscher, issued on Brunswick 78s in the U.S. Has that recording been re-issued?
John


A few chamber works not otherwise available were grouped together on a CD issued by the now defunct LP store "A Classical Record." That CD contained:


Brahms Trio Op. 8 (Strub, Hoelscher)
Schubert Arpeggione Sonata (Hoelscher)
Reger Liebestraum, Minuett, and Burleske (Strub)
Schumann Kinderszenen Op. 15

This is probably a very difficult CD to find now but well worth seeking out.

Farhan


dirkronk
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:17 pm
This rang a bell when I read the contents...so I went to my CD list (which hasn't been updated in many months, alas!) and found that I do, in fact, own it. (A cheer goes up!)

FWIW, here are all the items I have by Ney on CD as of sometime last year...seems to me that I also have a few downloads not itemized here. I do have several LPs, as well, but don't have those catalogued.

Elly Ney
Pre-war LvB 1936-38—sonata 4 op.7, andante favori in F, (Biddulph)
sonata 8 op.13, six variations on nel cor piu,
sonata 32 op.111 + Heiligenstadt Testament

Mozart piano cto. 15 K450 (Hoogstraten cond 1935); (Biddulph)
LvB piano cto. 2 (Zaun cond 1937); Strauss Burleske
(Hoogstraten/Berlin State Opera Orch 1932)

Art of the Piano vol. 1 (A Classical Record)
Brahms trio op.8 (w/ Sross & Hoelscher); Schubert “arpeggione” sonata;
Reger liebestraum, suite in a minor (w/Strub); Schuman kinderscenen op.15

Brahms piano cto.2 (Max Fiedler/Berlin PO 1939); (Pearl)
Schubert wanderer fantasy op.760 (c.1941);
LvB variations on nel cor piu (c.1937)

Brahms piano cto.2 (Konwitschny/Leipzig 1955) (Weitblick)

Portrait—2 CDs (Documents)
1. LvB piano cto.5 (Bohm/VPO ’44), sonata op.111 (1936)
2. Mozart piano cto.15 (Hoogstraten 1935); Schubert wanderer-fantasie (?); R.Strauss burleske (Hoogstraten 1932)

Elly Ney: Complete Edition of her Late Recordings (12 CDs) (Colosseum Classics)
1. LvB sonatas 30 op.109, 31 op.110, 32 op.111
2. “Plays original LvB piano”: andante favori WoO57; albumblatt fur Elise WoO59; “nel cor piu” 6 variations; sonata 32 op.111.
3. LvB piano cto 3 & 4 (Hoogstraten/Nurnberger Sym).
4. Schubert wanderer-fantasie; Schumann sym etudes op.13 + appendix (from posthumous works)
5. LvB sonatas 4 op.7; 8 op.13 “pathetique”; 12 op.26.
6. LvB piano cto.5 (Hoogstraten); sonata 23 op.57 “appassionata.”
7. LvB sonatas 14 op.27 “moonlight”; 17 op31/2 “Tempest”; 21 op.53 “waldstein.”
8. LvB sonata 18 op.31/3; vars in f major; adagio from Hammerklavier; 32 vars in c minor WoO80; rage over lost penny; 6 ecoissaises.
9. Mendelssohn songs w/o words (5 selections); Schubert impromptus op.90/3 & 4, moments musical op.94/2,3,4; Chopin fantasie op.49, ballade op.47.
10. Mozart rondo in a minor, sonata 11 K331, 10 K330; Schubert 15 german dances.
11. Brahms sonata #3, romanze op.185/5, intermezzi op.118/6 & 117/1, rhapsodie op.119/4, sonata #1.
12. Spoken “Heiligenstadter testament”; Brahms sandmannchen; Schubert “schlafe holder fusser knabe,” fruhlingsglaube, “weisst du wieviel sternlein stehen,” “gold’ne abendsonne”; Mozart agnus dei, andantino; Friedemann Bach kein halmlein wachst auf erden; Mendelssohn andante sostenuto; Schumann wegenlied, kind erwacht, traumerei, schlummerlied aus tem, novelette op.21, warum? Fantasiestuck; Gluck gavotte; JS Bach prelude in C, (from WTC) praludium #1, fuge #1, pralud.21, (from cantata 22) ertodt, einleitende worte von; Chopin nocturnes op.48/1, 37/2, 15/2 (Rilke poems recited by Eleonore van Hoogstraten); Brahms guten abend gute nacht.



dirkronk
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:17 pm
I'm bumping this thread about Elly Ney up because in the past couple of days, I traded a few posts about the artist (focused on her playing rather than her unfortunate political views) on another board. This caused me to think about and put into words a few things I've felt about her late (very late) recordings, which I acquired first on Colosseum LPs back in the early 1980s and later on the integral set of Colosseum CDs. In referring to her later recordings of the Wanderer Fantasy and the Waldstein, I was talking about her extraordinary facility to elicit emotional or intellectual response from the listener, and how I'd been introduced to this factor several decades back by a friend who first urged me to listen to Ney. My recent correspondent on the other board opined that he preferred Ney's early work and had often felt disappointed when trying recordings from her very late period. I responded:

"Can't say I'm really surprised that you've been disappointed. The late recordings are frustrating, because they have moments of sheer genius, and occasionally entire movements of great power or subtler emotional impact, but very few works that you can point to and say, THAT'S a performance to put ahead of anyone else's, totally satisfying all the way through. The Wanderer Fantasy qualifies (for me anyway); she plays it unlike almost anyone else I've heard, and it really works. On the other hand, I'd be hard put to give you other unqualified examples. It takes infinite patience to go through and find these moments, but when you find one, you don't forget it. Remember, Ney is pretty darn ancient here, which is a major reason (I think) that so few of the big pieces hold together as a whole. But she has also imbibed the notes, the runs, the language of the works for a lifetime; so you're hearing her play the same basic notes of a Beethoven sonata you've heard a million times by a thousand different pianists...and out of the blue, she adjusts a phrase ever so slightly and BAM! She's made your jaw drop. She's made you catch your breath. She's wrenched a tear, even a sob from you with no warning. It's like hearing a veteran actor recite a line of poetry or scripture that you've heard over and over, but the WAY he says it suddenly makes you see a depth or difference of meaning that you'd never attributed to it. If it were just me, I'd say that this kind of reaction was an aberration. But I was informed of this phenomenon years ago and remained a naysayer myself until I experienced it FOR myself. My friend Ron Moore is the one who first told me about this. He ordered the original Colosseum LPs for my favorite local record store back in the early or mid 1980s, and he literally couldn't keep them on the shelves. As soon as an order came in, every one would be sold. The buyers were mostly pianists themselves or long-time piano specialist collectors. It's not like they needed another Waldstein or Appassionata or you name the piece. They were simply out to discover and soak in those special moments. So that's the way I've always looked at Ney's late stuff: these are adjunct performances to whatever mainstream versions you prefer. But the longer I live with them, the greater the importance I see in having them available. That's why, although I still own a few particular Colosseum LPs, I searched out and purchased the box set of Colosseum CDs from Europe. Even though I dip into them infrequently, I can't see being without them."

This, in turn, got me wondering just how many other listeners have experienced this kind of revelatory response to passages played by Ney (or any other pianist, for that matter). And do you have a similar frustration-yet-admiration reaction to her late recordings? What say you, folks?

Curiously,

Dirk


Lance
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:36 am
The first time I heard Elly Ney's recordings, I didn't know very much about her at all. I happened to be in NYC at a place called Music Masters. Will Lerner was my contact there and turned out to be everybody's friend when it came to discussing or looking for private or rare recordings. I found the early Electrola disc of her Beethoven Sonata No. 32 in C Minor, Op. 111, and this was AFTER I heard some of her performances on the Colosseum LPs. So, in retrospect, it was the LATER performances wherein something triggered in the brain to tell me that I was hearing something every special and individual. Yes, she may have been a bit more feeble in those later recordings but (like Horszowski and even Artur Rubinstein in their long lives) she had much to draw from artistically and interpretively (and to think about during all those decades which may have deeply coloured her interpretations long after WWII) when performing later in life. Among the few pianists that I did NOT feel did justice to their legacy was Claudio Arrau in his last (or late) recordings for Philips [not the impressionistic music so much, nor the Liszt, but the Beethoven and Schubert recordings].

By then, I wanted to collect every note recorded by Elly Ney. When I was in Munich, I asked in a major record store about her recordings and the staff never heard of her! (Well, after all, she was not held in the highest esteem after WWII, understandbly, particularly by the Jewish population). In Munich, after much persuasion, I was able to pick up a stereo LP copy (3 LPs) of the complete Cello Sonatas of Beethoven w/Ludwig Hoelscher of which only a couple sonatas have reappeared on CD. I found a Schubert "Trout" Quintet (rather highly priced LP) on Electrola in NYC on one hunting occasion. That has never been reissued in any format.

On CD, today I have recordings issued on A Classical Record, Beyer, Biddulph, Classico, Colosseum, Hanssler, Melodram, Membran ([TIM], Pearl, Piano Library, Urania, and Weitblick. On LP, I have much of the same (all the Colosseum 10" and 12" recordings in stereo where issued, now all in the Colosseum boxd set) with some material never reissued on CD by EMI or independents (the "Trout" being one item). It would be a wish to have EMI give us an "Icon" box with all of her recordings,most of which were made in the days of the 78-rpm electrical period, and some made on early recording tape. I doubt this will ever happen because Elly Ney is only of interest to, particularly, piano aficionados.

It really mattered not too much to me if it was Ney's early recordings or the later ones. There was, simply put, something very special in her approach to Beethoven and Schubert, much like there was with Artur Schnabel. I visited Elly Ney's gravesite in Tutzing, Bavaria when I was in Germany. At that time, I did not realize or know anything about her antisemitic views. When I hear Elly Ney's recordings today, the thought crosses my mind about how such an incredible artist could have these feelings about other human beings and yet make music that takes you to another dimension spiritually/emotionally. There may be—and certainly are—pianists who play as good as or better than she in an overall evaluation (such as Solomon, Serkin, E. Fischer, Schnabel) but there is still an ingredient in Ney's playing that is so unique that one cannot put one's finger immediately on it.

I can't recall if I mentioned it or not in a prevous post, but the Colosseum boxed set had a gross error in it. The very first thing I wanted to hear out of that box was said to contain the Bach WTC Prelude and Fugue #1. It was shown as being ON the disc and appears on the jacket. However, it was nowhere to be heard—or found. I immediately made contact with Colosseum who was happy I discovered the problem. I was sent an immediate replacement disc because the Ney recording of tis is the most amazing performance I ever heard of this work, which all piano students have played. Her piano tone is to die for, as they say. Depending on when you bought the Colosseum boxed set, you may want to check this out and determine if you need a replacement CD. ♫

_________________
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]
Image


dirkronk
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:59 pm
Lance wrote:

I can't recall if I mentioned it or not in a prevous post, but the Colosseum boxed set had a gross error in it. The very first thing I wanted to hear out of that box was said to contain the Bach WTC Prelude and Fugue #1. It was shown as being ON the disc and appears on the jacket. However, it was nowhere to be heard—or found. I immediately made contact with Colosseum who was happy I discovered the problem. I was sent an immediate replacement disc because the Ney recording of tis is the most amazing performance I ever heard of this work, which all piano students have played. Her piano tone is to die for, as they say. Depending on when you bought the Colosseum boxed set, you may want to check this out and determine if you need a replacement CD. ♫

Well, I'll have to check. I fear I bought the box several years back, so I might have a hard time getting a sympathetic ear from the web merchant or the manufacturer at this late date. Still, with an endorsement like the one you give the WTC prelude & fugue, Lance, I can hardly just sit still and NOT track the thing down if my box doesn't have it!

Thanks,

Dirk



Lance
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:05 am
I bought my set many years ago, too [May 2003, $54/USD]. The price was great for 12 CDs, but the postage was horrendous! On mega-sets, it's not a bad idea to immediately check to see if all the CDs are there, and then to check to see if the proper CD is in the proper sleeve. In some cases, I have even checked the timings to make sure the CD is the proper one. I don't believe you will have a problem getting a replacement disc if you discover you don't have the correct one. Just write to Colosseum directly. I'm sure they want to make it as right as possible since some people don't play every disc as soon as they get them.
dirkronk wrote:
Well, I'll have to check. I fear I bought the box several years back, so I might have a hard time getting a sympathetic ear from the web merchant or the manufacturer at this late date. Still, with an endorsement like the one you give the WTC prelude & fugue, Lance, I can hardly just sit still and NOT track the thing down if my box doesn't have it!
_________________
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]
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Cliftwood

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:29 pm
For those interested in a remarkable in depth analysis into that period, which discusses Ney at great length, I recommend :

The Twisted Muse; Musicians and their music in the Third Reich.

The author is Michael Kater.


Lance
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:01 pm
The Twisted Muse: Musicians and Their Music in the Third Reich was the book our dear friend, Werner Isler, recommended to me a few years ago. Upon receiving it, I was shocked to read about many musicians therein that I did not realize or know they were involved with Nazis. I was especially disturbed by reading the comments about Elly Ney, who I always placed on a pianistic pedestal. One really does wonder what these highly gifted artists of all fields could possibly be thinking about when they take such actions against their fellow human beings. Michael Kater has written several books that are most revealing and we've spoken about them many times on CMG.
Cliftwood wrote:
For those interested in a remarkable in depth analysis into that period, which discusses Ney at great length, I recommend :

The Twisted Muse; Musicians and their music in the Third Reich.

The author is Michael Kater.
_________________
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]
Image
Farhan

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