Poll: How many times have you heard Beethoven's Sym5?

[IcedNote]

I was thinking about listening habits today. As I've said on here before, I rarely just sit down to listen to classical music--98% of my listening is for the purpose of "studying." I've also made it no secret that I listen to other types of music (e.g. hip hop, metal, electronic, jazz) *way* more than classical.

That lead me to thinking about how many times I've actually heard a masterpiece from beginning to end. So, why not take Beethoven's Symphony 5? I think I've only heard it twice all the way through, uninterrupted. Maybe three times. Maybe.

I've posted this question on Twitter to musicians of my generation, and I'll share trends if I get enough responses.

I'm assuming that some of you have heard it 100+ times, either because you listen to music a lot or because you've played it countless times in orchestras or whatever.

Curious,

-G

[hangos]

Thousands of times, complete! It does of course help that there are lots of different recordings .....
Martin

[scififan]

This is is guess, but since I probably listen to some version at least once a year it's probably close. I should add that there are some pieces to which I listen more frequently than the Bethoven Fifth.

[John F]

I can't even guesstimate, but less often than you might think, considering how many years I've been listening to classical music. My parents didn't have a recording of it; I got my own in my teens and listened to it often enough to fix the music in my memory; but somewhere along the line, I found I don't really care for that piece, except for the first movement, and I haven't heard it at all for at least 20 years. The Eroica Symphony, that's an entirely different matter.

I'm curious. What is it you want to find out from the answers to your question? Surely not the mere numbers, I shouldn't think that information would be much use or interest to you, me, or anyone.

[jbuck919]

but somewhere along the line, I found I don't really care for that piece, except for the first movement, and I haven't heard it at all for at least 20 years.

Of course, Beethoven himself preferred the Eroica and affirmed that when someone supposed it should be the Fifth. I guess you could say that the Fifth is relatively minor.

(You will forgive me if I still love the whole Fifth Symphony.)

[RebLem]

Just as a guess, I entered 51-99. Not really sure, it may be more. I do own 22 sets of the Beethoven symphonies and about 10 other individual recordings of the Fifth, all of which I have listened to at least once, and a number of which, including those by Reiner, C Kleiber, and Zander, plus the Szell recording with the Concertgebouw in addition to his recording in the Cleveland set, which I have listened to multiple times--most of them less than 10 times, but Reiner many more than that--its still my favorite recording of the work, and it was my first!

[Heck148]

I think I've performed Beethoven Sym#5 more than any other symphony - so I have to count in all of those performances and rehearsals...

Some performances were really terrific, some distinctly unmemorable.
this is a great work, tho, and when done well, is clearly a masterpiece of towering stature...

When i hear performers like Reiner/CSO, or Toscanini/NBC perfprm this symphony, I'm reminded of what a powerful work it truly is.

[diegobueno]

Of course, Beethoven himself preferred the Eroica and affirmed that when someone supposed it should be the Fifth. I guess you could say that the Fifth is relatively minor.

Good one!

[Steinway]

"this is a great work, tho, and when done well, is clearly a masterpiece of towering stature..."

I completely agree with this assessment and would add the 6th as Beethoven's two greatest symphonic works.

I've listened to Beethoven's symphonies many times for many years and never tire of the
5th and 6th.

[josé echenique]

I also much prefer the Eroica (and most other Beethoven symphonies) to the 5th. Having said that, one of the most memorable concerts I have ever heard was hearing Carlos Kleiber and the Vienna Philharmonic performing the Fifth. The cumulative power of that performance was unforgettable, not even their excellent DG recording can compare with the live concert.

[THEHORN]

I've also heard it countless times and performed it a number of times . It's a masterpiece that's become so familiar it's easy to take it for granted . But I really want to hear so many lesser known but worthwhile symphonies. I still haven't heard all 27 of Nikolai Myaskovsky . But do conductors ever program his symphonies live ?
The only one I know of in recent years was a recent performance of no 6 in London with Vladimir Jurowski and his London Philhamronic . Bravo to him for giving the London audience a chance to hear something out of the ordinary like this !
But we just keep on getting the umpteenth Beethoven symphony cycle every year. Of course, we all love his symphonies. And there will be another one in Carnegie hall this season . Ho hum .
Why not a cycle of all nine Dvorak symphonies , plus the other orchestral works, the concertos, and perhaps the great but neglected Requiem ? Everybody knows the last three Dvorak symphonies but the first six are rarely heard live, which is a pity .
Why don't conductors other than a few courageous ones who are willing to think outside the box like Neeme Jarvi ,
program such wonderful symphonies as the one by Paul Dukas, the Balakirev first, the four by Franz Berwald,
the four by Roussel ( the 3rd is occaisionally performed), the "Color symphony" by Arthur Bliss, the two by Wilhelm Stenhamar, the three by Czech composer Zdenek Fibich, the three of Max Bruch , the Glazunov symphonies,
the four by Saint-Saens other than the familiar "Organ" symphony, the early one by Wagner, and so many others ?

[jbuck919]

I've also heard it countless times and performed it a number of times . It's a masterpiece that's become so familiar it's easy to take it for granted . But I really want to hear so many lesser known but worthwhile symphonies. I still haven't heard all 27 of Nikolai Myaskovsky . But do conductors ever program his symphonies live ?
The only one I know of in recent years was a recent performance of no 6 in London with Vladimir Jurowski and his London Philhamronic . Bravo to him for giving the London audience a chance to hear something out of the ordinary like this !
But we just keep on getting the umpteenth Beethoven symphony cycle every year. Of course, we all love his symphonies. And there will be another one in Carnegie hall this season . Ho hum .
Why not a cycle of all nine Dvorak symphonies , plus the other orchestral works, the concertos, and perhaps the great but neglected Requiem ? Everybody knows the last three Dvorak symphonies but the first six are rarely heard live, which is a pity .
Why don't conductors other than a few courageous ones who are willing to think outside the box like Neeme Jarvi ,
program such wonderful symphonies as the one by Paul Dukas, the Balakirev first, the four by Franz Berwald,
the four by Roussel ( the 3rd is occaisionally performed), the "Color symphony" by Arthur Bliss, the two by Wilhelm Stenhamar, the three by Czech composer Zdenek Fibich, the three of Max Bruch , the Glazunov symphonies,
the four by Saint-Saens other than the familiar "Organ" symphony, the early one by Wagner, and so many others ?

I think there should be a big box set with all those works. You know, get it all over with at one time.

[maestrob]

Beethoven V is rarely done right, unlike VII, which is better-crafted for the conductor. The transition between IIIrd & IVth movements is particularly tricky: the tempo is supposed to slow down slightly at the start of IV but not too much, to add weight to the opening chords. Solti & Szell (Concertgebouw) both get this wrong: Solti by maintaining a steady tempo between the two movements, and Szell by reversing Beethoven's clearly marked tempi!

The two best recordings I have of Beethoven V are Toscanini and HVK 1963, both of which manage the tempi correctly. I listen to each about once a year. For HIP I prefer Gardiner, but his orchestra lacks the weight of Toscanini or Berlin.

[Heck148]

But we just keep on getting the umpteenth Beethoven symphony cycle every year. Of course, we all love his symphonies. And there will be another one in Carnegie hall this season . Ho hum .

Yes, the same warhorses are over-programmed, overplayed, and some vastly over-rated...
That's a whole new thread topic, of course.

[IcedNote]

I wonder if the younger generation of musicians has a different relationship to this masterwork (perhaps stalwart masterworks in general?) than older generations. Responses I've gotten from friends and colleagues suggests that my crop of people (say, <40 years old) don't listen to the old masterworks all that frequently. Most say they've listened to Beethoven 5 just a handful of times. Hell, one young professor at a very fine institution told me three times! And I don't think this just has to do with age--i.e. older people simply have had more time to listen to the piece numerous times. Another factor could be the simple difference between the LISTENER and the DOER. The young people responding to my poll are all active composers/performers, so perhaps we're just too busy "doing" music rather than simply listening to it.

Thoughts?

-G

[jbuck919]

Most say they've listened to Beethoven 5 just a handful of times. Hell, one young professor at a very fine institution told me three times!
Thoughts?

3 X 5 = 15

[Burbage]

I haven't counted. But I reckon it must be at least a six times in concerts, at least a dozen on the radio and about twice a year from recordings. Depending on my age, that would put me somewhere north of forty times.

I can't usefully add to the observations of others, except to respectfully suggest that younger people have probably listened to the piece less because they've, so far, had less time.

[some guy]

I've listened to Beethoven's fifth many times, as I have done with all of the rest of the standard repertoire as well as outside the standard. I lose track of how many times I listen to something somewhere between 37 and 43, though, so could not vote in this poll.

But I do have something to add to the age discussion, which is that I listened to Beethoven's fifth more frequently between ages 9 (when I started out) and 20 (when I "discovered" twentieth century music) than any time after. Same for countless other works from before 1906. Those years included most of my active years as a performer, too, in various school ensembles and later in some community organizations. Small potatoes all, but it all kept me very busy playing.

I don't suppose I've listened to Beethoven's fifth more than a half dozen times since 1972 (time to rectify that, maybe!!), but I had listened to it enough before then to have been able to have chosen the 100+ option with some degree of certainty. (If only I didn't lose track around the fortieth listen....)

That is, for some lily-gilding, I could have chosen that option had this poll been given when I was 20. So much for the age theory. Of course I've had more time in the last 40 years to have listened to Beethoven's fifth 100's more times. But my interests had shifted somewhat in '72, and so my time has been more devoted to everything from Ives to the present, an ever shifting present, with new delights and new adventures every year.

[Tarantella]

I find LvB's 5th is one I can happily do without. Perhaps it's been overplayed, I don't know, but there are so many other things to hear (like the aforementioned Ligeti) that there just isn't TIME to be going over a lot of already-covered ground. I like to keep myself occupied with the particular Beethoven pieces I love rather than those which have become a bit cliched. Sorry Ludwig..!!

[slofstra]

I would guess between 25 and 125 times. I don't see that option. Really, you should have warned me 40 years ago, and I would have kept better track. I've heard it enough times that when I listen to it, the music feels like it's going through a well worn rut in my brain. I've got it even worse with the 9th, a performance of which we attended just last night. I don't think I will ever tire of either one, but I found my attention did lapse a few times last night, as the element of surprise is totally gone. I focus more closely on individual instruments and the construction of the piece.