How is Hindemith faring these days?

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piston
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How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by piston » Wed May 22, 2013 7:23 pm

The Portland (Maine) symphony is performing is Mathis der Maler tonight, one of his best works. What about the legacy of this very prolific composer? Will he be remembered for a half dozen works and, like Honegger, everything else will slowly fade away?
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Modernistfan » Wed May 22, 2013 9:12 pm

Not very well, unfortunately. Hindemith has fallen prey to the same anti-modernist bias that has taken a lot of tonal but sometimes dissonant modernists almost completely out of the repertoire. Other composers who would fall in this category would include Arthur Honegger and William Schuman; there are many others. Honegger called this around 1950 or so--he said that the backlash arising from the hostility of much of the audience to the Second Viennese School (Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern) would spread and take him out of the repertoire. At most, there are occasional performances of the "Symphonic Metamorphosis on Themes of Carl Maria von Weber" and the "Mathis der Maler" Symphony. Luckily, he has fared extremely well on recordings, especially from the German cpo and Wergo labels.

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Steinway » Wed May 22, 2013 10:09 pm

Hindemith's Symphony in E Flat is a magnificent work that is never performed by any major orchestra and this is a reality that boggles my mind. There are a few recordings, with Bernstein's NY Philharmonic the definitive one.

Who knows this work and can comment on the lack of recognition of this composer's tour de force ?

Thanks for any responses that may appear.

Steinway, formerly cliftwood.

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Chalkperson » Wed May 22, 2013 11:09 pm

It may be even less, maybe four works...
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Klipspringer » Wed May 22, 2013 11:50 pm

I really enjoy Hindemith and just a day or so ago listened to Gould's Complete Sonatas for Brass and Piano. It was really interesting musc, and there were some very lovely pieces there.

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by THEHORN » Thu May 23, 2013 10:30 am

Riccardo Muti did the Hindemith symphony several years ago with the New York Philharmonic .

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by jbuck919 » Thu May 23, 2013 4:09 pm

Modernistfan wrote:Not very well, unfortunately. Hindemith has fallen prey to the same anti-modernist bias that has taken a lot of tonal but sometimes dissonant modernists almost completely out of the repertoire. Other composers who would fall in this category would include Arthur Honegger and William Schuman; there are many others. Honegger called this around 1950 or so--he said that the backlash arising from the hostility of much of the audience to the Second Viennese School (Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern) would spread and take him out of the repertoire.
Is it that really? How then would you explain the continued success of Poulenc? I am not so sure of this as not to be willing to entertain evidence to the contrary, but my sense is that a composer who complains that he will lose his audience by association with Schoenberg because of some overriding bias against modern music that does not sound like Benjamin Britten is engaging in some combination of egotism, denial, and sour grapes. In case no one has noticed it, the Second Viennese School along with Bartok and Stravinsky are still prospering relatively speaking, as are "tonal modernists" like Prokofiev and Shostakovitch, while as you point out yourself many other tonal modernists have fallen out of favor. Er, could that be because of a lack of something in much of their music to maintain people's interest enough to keep them in the repertory outside of non-specialist CDs? The argument you are presenting sounds a little like someone in the 19th or even early 20th century claiming that Albinoni and Kuhnau are only neglected because they lost their audience in the backlash against Bach.

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by John F » Thu May 23, 2013 5:02 pm

piston wrote:The Portland (Maine) symphony is performing is Mathis der Maler tonight, one of his best works. What about the legacy of this very prolific composer? Will he be remembered for a half dozen works and, like Honegger, everything else will slowly fade away?
New York City Opera presented the complete opera "Mathis der Maler" and much as I wanted to be enthusiastic, I thought its best music was in the MdM symphony. "Cardillac" is more consistently effective, and I like the piece for viola and strings, "Der Schwanendreher." But in general I'm not drawn to his music, and when I hear a piece like the Symphony in E flat, I'm left with an empty feeling (though Steinway likes it).

Hindemith was no forbidding modernist. His music was not atonal, and indeed less dissonant than works by Bartok (for example) that are often played and recorded. His orientation was neobaroque, "back to Bach" as it used to be said. The "Kleine Kammermusik" presents no great difficulties to a modestly educated ear, and it sounds like great fun to play.



If Hindemith had consistently composed at his best level, we'd hear much more of his music than we do. But I think he composed far too much music, always well made but often using second-rate material, not just uninspired but uninteresting, which he expertly put through the motions. For me the results are often dry and unrewarding.
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by piston » Thu May 23, 2013 7:50 pm

John Francis wrote:
New York City Opera presented the complete opera "Mathis der Maler" and much as I wanted to be enthusiastic, I thought its best music was in the MdM symphony.
Interesting that the symphonic suite preceded the opera and was composed in 1934 Germany. There's something about this medieval story of an artist who questioned how much his societal contributions should be politically related, should be intended to affect people's minds about their own political world.
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by piston » Thu May 23, 2013 7:55 pm

And, incidentally, Hindemith was married to a Jewish woman, who is all too often not identified in Hindemith related sketches.
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Lance » Thu May 23, 2013 8:01 pm

Hmmm ... Gould's Sonatas for Brass & Piano was the one disc of his I avoided. Maybe I should reconsider.
Klipspringer wrote:I really enjoy Hindemith and just a day or so ago listened to Gould's Complete Sonatas for Brass and Piano. It was really interesting musc, and there were some very lovely pieces there.

Chris
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by piston » Thu May 23, 2013 8:09 pm

And there's the direct connection with Harold Shapero in 1940....
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by John F » Thu May 23, 2013 11:38 pm

piston wrote:Interesting that the symphonic suite preceded the opera and was composed in 1934 Germany. There's something about this medieval story of an artist who questioned how much his societal contributions should be politically related, should be intended to affect people's minds about their own political world.
The symphony was composed not before but concurrently with the opera, though it was finished and premiered first. Also in 1934, Berg extracted and orchestrated Five Symphonic Pieces from his draft of "Lulu" both as a preview of the opera and a way to earn some money; of course Berg didn't live to complete the opera.
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Modernistfan » Fri May 24, 2013 2:56 pm

Regarding jbuck919's comments, although there is no really objective way to quantitate this, I think that Poulenc is generally far more tuneful and audience-friendly than Hindemith and the other composers I named (Honegger, William Schuman, to whom I would add Denmark's Vagn Holmboe, Norway's Harald Sæverud and Finland's Einar Englund, among many others). As far as Prokofiev and Stravinsky, despite good recordings, only a few pieces by these composers are heard with any frequency, and the Rite of Spring still gives a lot of listeners the galloping heebie-jeebies. Check and see how many times (I should say how infrequently) most American orchestras have played the Prokofiev symphonies, with perhaps the First ("Classical") Symphony being the exception. Even the Fifth, long considered Prokofiev's most popular symphony, is played far less often than it was a generation ago. Good luck trying to find performances of the dissonant Second and Third Symnphonies; they are extremely rare. (Again, there are excellent recordings, including the complete sets by Gergiev and Järvi in my collection.) For Stravinsky, basically some of his neoclassical works are performed, and that is just about it.

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by jbuck919 » Fri May 24, 2013 4:40 pm

Modernistfan wrote:Regarding jbuck919's comments, although there is no really objective way to quantitate this, I think that Poulenc is generally far more tuneful and audience-friendly than Hindemith and the other composers I named (Honegger, William Schuman, to whom I would add Denmark's Vagn Holmboe, Norway's Harald Sæverud and Finland's Einar Englund, among many others). As far as Prokofiev and Stravinsky, despite good recordings, only a few pieces by these composers are heard with any frequency, and the Rite of Spring still gives a lot of listeners the galloping heebie-jeebies. Check and see how many times (I should say how infrequently) most American orchestras have played the Prokofiev symphonies, with perhaps the First ("Classical") Symphony being the exception. Even the Fifth, long considered Prokofiev's most popular symphony, is played far less often than it was a generation ago. Good luck trying to find performances of the dissonant Second and Third Symnphonies; they are extremely rare. (Again, there are excellent recordings, including the complete sets by Gergiev and Järvi in my collection.) For Stravinsky, basically some of his neoclassical works are performed, and that is just about it.
All of the relatively well-represented composers you name composed works in various genres, which are frequently programmed by soloists and chamber combinations, in addition to their orchestral commonplaces. Also, ensembles of various higher orders, but other than the great philharmonics in their season programming, take those composers seriously, though I would not claim that every large-scale work they wrote is in common repertory. Much of this music is represented chiefly on recordings by excellent and often famous performers, which is also true of a huge amount of music from the greatest masters.

On the other hand, the composers you consider to be neglected are, with the exception of a few pieces as already state, rarely performed in any genre even outside the mainstream programming of major symphony orchestras or other fine ensembles. And having heard after many years a performance of a Hindemith organ sonata by no less than Thomas Murray a couple of summers ago, I can understand why. I once thought his neo-contrapuntal angularity to be a neat thing, but now its soullessness leaves me cold.

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by John F » Sat May 25, 2013 2:22 am

Prokofiev and especially Stravinsky are performed more often in America than Modernistfan believes, and then there's the rest of the world. Stravinsky is most often represented by the three famous early ballets - and this year, the centenary of "Le Sacre du Printemps," it's been performed by just about every orchestra that can afford to hire the Wagner tubas. But his other active concert repertoire is far broader than "some of his neoclassical work," as with the New York Philharmonic's three-week Stravinsky festival in 2010 conducted by Valery Gergiev; the orchestra will end this season with an all-Stravinsky program, "Petrushka" and "Le Baiser de la Fée." In the opera house, "Oedipus Rex" and "The Rake's Progress" are performed here and there every season. And that's not to count performances by ballet companies, notably New York City Ballet, which comprise not only his ballet scores but much else.

Prokofiev is hardly a rarity in American concert programs either. The violin concertos are both being performed this season at the Philharmonic, the 3rd piano concerto is a worldwide favorite, the fifth symphony is performed more often than Modernistfan believes, his piano sonatas figure in many recital programs, "Alexander Nevsky" is among the more frequently programmed 20th century choral works, and the Metropolitan Opera has been introducing his operas into its repertoire. And then there's "Peter and the Wolf."

Of course neither composer rivals Beethoven or Tchaikovsky in frequency of performances. But the relevant comparison is with Hindemith, and for many years the German has hardly been even an also-ran.
Last edited by John F on Sat May 25, 2013 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by lennygoran » Sat May 25, 2013 6:39 am

John F wrote:
piston wrote: "Cardillac" is more consistently effective,
I wanted to see this in Boston but couldn't make it up there. Netflix had it on DVD and Sue and I enjoyed it--very different but very dramatic!


"Wolfgang Sawallisch conducts this acclaimed staging of Paul Hindemith's ambitious opera of the goldsmith Cardillac, whom fortune seems to favor and then abandon, featuring Donald McIntyre and Maria de Francesca-Cavazza in the starring roles. Filmed in 1985 at the Bavarian State Opera and directed by the legendary Jean-Pierre Ponnelle, the production captures every nuance of Hindemith's powerful tale of love, suspicion and betrayal.

Cast:
Donald McIntyre, Wolfgang Sawallisch, Bavarian State Opera, Bavarian State Orchestra, Maria de Francesca-Cavazza, Robert Schunk, Hans Günter Nöcker, Josef Hopferwieser, Doris Soffel, Karl Helm"

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by dulcinea » Sun May 26, 2013 2:50 am

Rat=Advice:
Since Herr Hindemith is in the same position as many of his contemporaries of being represented only by a bare fistful of works--the weasels, stoats, martens, rodents, ferrets and mustelids only play MATTHIS and WEBER--I urge most strongly that you do not therefore dismiss him as a minor second rater, as happened to Vivaldi when he was known only for the FOUR SEASONS concerti.
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by John F » Sun May 26, 2013 4:39 am

Which works by Hindemith lead you to rate him higher than that? While I'm at it, which works by Vivaldi? :mrgreen:
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by dulcinea » Sun May 26, 2013 7:10 pm

John F wrote:Which works by Hindemith lead you to rate him higher than that?
Ratschlag=piece of advice:
read other people's writings with attention so you will not misunderstand them--unless your deliberate intention is to be leichtfertig=frivolous.
The very fact that I know so little of PH's music warns me against dismissing it, because it reminds me of the long times during which Jack Bach was remembered only as the father of John Christian and CPE.
As for Vivaldi, I have listened to the entire BRILLIANT CLASSICS VIVALDI EDITION, plus several works, such as complete operas, that are not included in it. How well do you know il Prete Rosso?
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Chalkperson » Sun May 26, 2013 11:03 pm

dulcinea wrote:
John F wrote:Which works by Hindemith lead you to rate him higher than that?
Ratschlag=piece of advice:
read other people's writings with attention so you will not misunderstand them--unless your deliberate intention is to be leichtfertig=frivolous.
The very fact that I know so little of PH's music warns me against dismissing it, because it reminds me of the long times during which Jack Bach was remembered only as the father of John Christian and CPE.
As for Vivaldi, I have listened to the entire BRILLIANT CLASSICS VIVALDI EDITION, plus several works, such as complete operas, that are not included in it. How well do you know il Prete Rosso?
The comparison of Hindemith to Vivaldi is a real stretch, and I don't think you would say the same thing if you listened to the entire works of Hindemith, if you want a truer comparison I would liken him to Zelenka...

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by John F » Mon May 27, 2013 12:50 am

dulcinea wrote:read other people's writings with attention so you will not misunderstand them--unless your deliberate intention is to be leichtfertig=frivolous.
The very fact that I know so little of PH's music warns me against dismissing it, because it reminds me of the long times during which Jack Bach was remembered only as the father of John Christian and CPE.
I wrote that he "composed far too much music, always well made but often using second-rate material, not just uninspired but uninteresting, which he expertly put through the motions. For me the results are often dry and unrewarding." You then urged "most strongly" that Hindemith not be dismissed as a "second-rater." after If you weren't contradicting me - and your using my word "second-rate" makes me think you were - and if you know so little of his music, less than I do, then what is your "advice" based on, and to whom is it directed?
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by dulcinea » Mon May 27, 2013 10:30 am

It is a waste of my time to keep correcting you when you miss my point so completely.
Vivaldi was dismissed unheard in the time when JSB and GFH were regarded as the entire Baroque, and that is something that should not be done to anybody. The weasels and other mustelids only play the easy Stravinsky, which is obviously a disservice to Gospodin Igor. The weasels have this weird misconception that people are born already familiar with the easy standards, and that that is all they will ever like. You already know that I have been moving beyond the easy standards for two decades, and that also applies to PH and his contemporaries. You have works of Herr Hindemith that you recommend?: GUT!; I will look them up. Just do not expect me to dismiss unheard someone whom I might easily like, rather than dislike.
Do I make sense?
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by RebLem » Mon May 27, 2013 12:56 pm

OK, so I went and got my entire Hindemith collection, al 8 inches of it.

1--The 3 Piano sonatas--Glenn Gould--1 CD
2--The 5 sonatas for brass and piano--Glenn Gould+--2 CDs
3--Complete sonatas, Vols 1-7--Ensemble Villa Musica--7 CDs
4--Octet for clarinet, bassoon, horn, violin, 2 violas, cello & bass (1957) |Septet for wind instruments (1948) |Sonata for 4 horns (1952)--St Luke's Chamber Ensemble--1 CD
5--Mathis der Maler Symphony |Concerto for winds, harp, & orch |Konzertmusik for brass & strings, Op. 50--Jiri Belohlavek, cond., Czech Phil--1 CD
6--Symphonia Serena |"Die Harmonie der Welt" Symphony--Blomstedt, Gewandhausorchester Leipzig--1 CD
7--"Mathis der Maler" Sym |Symphonic Metamorphosis of Themes by Weber |Konzertmusik for brass and strings, Op. 50 |Der Schwanendreher (Concerto after old folk songs for viola & small orchestra) |Nobilissima Visione Suite |duplicate of listing #6--Blomstedt, San Francisco Sym in CDs 1 & 2--3 CDs
8--Symphonic Dances |Ragtime |Pittsburgh Symphony--Jan Pascal Tortelier, BBC Phil--1 CD
9--The 7 Chamber Concerti--Ensemble Modern, Markus Stenz, cond--2 CDs
10--When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd--William Stone, baritone, Jan DeGaetani, mezzo-soprano, Robert Shaw, Atlanta Symphony--1 CD
11--Cardillac--Keilberth, cond, Koln RSO & Chorus & soloists--2 CDs

And yes, I have listened more than once to about a third of the above. I particularly like the Oboe Sonata on Vol 5 of the Ensemble Villa Musica series, the symphonies, and When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd.

And I am astonished by the short shrift given to Arthur Honegger in this thread. In addition to the more popular works like the symphonies and Joan of Arc at the Stake, I have a four cd set of his complete chamber music which I love immensely and have reviewed in CMG.
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Chalkperson » Mon May 27, 2013 1:34 pm

dulcinea wrote:It is a waste of my time to keep correcting you when you miss my point so completely.
Vivaldi was dismissed unheard in the time when JSB and GFH were regarded as the entire Baroque, and that is something that should not be done to anybody. The weasels and other mustelids only play the easy Stravinsky, which is obviously a disservice to Gospodin Igor. The weasels have this weird misconception that people are born already familiar with the easy standards, and that that is all they will ever like. You already know that I have been moving beyond the easy standards for two decades, and that also applies to PH and his contemporaries. You have works of Herr Hindemith that you recommend?: GUT!; I will look them up. Just do not expect me to dismiss unheard someone whom I might easily like, rather than dislike.
Do I make sense?
Dulcinea, who like her ancestor Don Q rushes to the defense of those who need to be helped and protected
That's fine, but Hindemith is simply not that great, you are defending somebody whose work you never heard, it does not warrant repeated listenings, only a very few pieces stand the test of time. If he is not played on your local Radio Station it's because he is so overshadowed by his contemporaries, the only Hindemith I would recommend is Mathis der Maler, in Symphonic form, not the Opera. I like the opera Cardillac but it can't be listened to without the visuals, some of the Sonatas are OK, once. The Chamber music has a few nice neo Baroque bits but I rarely if ever play it...

If I was your local Radio station I would not play his music either...

The Vivaldi revival you seem so attached to is because it's wallpaper music, very nice wallpaper of course. I'm not quite like John as I consider him highly but I play him as background music, I never sit and just listen to him like I do with the other two, he will always comes third to Bach and Handel, and there is good reason for that. In fact I would rank him equal third, with Telemann...
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by jbuck919 » Mon May 27, 2013 2:20 pm

Chalkperson wrote:I'm not quite like John as I consider him highly but I play him as background music, I never sit and just listen to him like I do with the other two, he will always comes third to Bach and Handel, and there is good reason for that. In fact I would rank him equal third, with Telemann...
Assuming you were referring to me (and you might not have been but then might as well have been), in what way are we not alike in this matter? :) That is exactly how I deal with Vivaldi (background music), I also rate him equal with Telemann, and the only difference between us is that this still makes him important for you while it makes him delightful but expendable for me. Ranking him third after Bach and Handel is misleading: It implies some significance equivalent to ranking Haydn third after Beethoven and Mozart. We are talking about different orders of artistry entirely. If there is a third Baroque composer, it is Scarlatti, but I haven't made much progress in advancing that opinion here over the years. :)

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by dulcinea » Mon May 27, 2013 2:50 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
dulcinea wrote:It is a waste of my time to keep correcting you when you miss my point so completely.
Vivaldi was dismissed unheard in the time when JSB and GFH were regarded as the entire Baroque, and that is something that should not be done to anybody. The weasels and other mustelids only play the easy Stravinsky, which is obviously a disservice to Gospodin Igor. The weasels have this weird misconception that people are born already familiar with the easy standards, and that that is all they will ever like. You already know that I have been moving beyond the easy standards for two decades, and that also applies to PH and his contemporaries. You have works of Herr Hindemith that you recommend?: GUT!; I will look them up. Just do not expect me to dismiss unheard someone whom I might easily like, rather than dislike.
Do I make sense?
Dulcinea, who like her ancestor Don Q rushes to the defense of those who need to be helped and protected
That's fine, but Hindemith is simply not that great, you are defending somebody whose work you never heard, it does not warrant repeated listenings, only a very few pieces stand the test of time. If he is not played on your local Radio Station it's because he is so overshadowed by his contemporaries, the only Hindemith I would recommend is Mathis der Maler, in Symphonic form, not the Opera. I like the opera Cardillac but it can't be listened to without the visuals, some of the Sonatas are OK, once. The Chamber music has a few nice neo Baroque bits but I rarely if ever play it...

If I was your local Radio station I would not play his music either...

The Vivaldi revival you seem so attached to is because it's wallpaper music, very nice wallpaper of course. I'm not quite like John as I consider him highly but I play him as background music, I never sit and just listen to him like I do with the other two, he will always comes third to Bach and Handel, and there is good reason for that. In fact I would rank him equal third, with Telemann...
As far as Dulcinea is concerned there is no such thing as wallpaper music, unless you are willing to besmirch the music of Chopin that way because she uses it to inspire her imagination when doing a demanding drawing. As for the operas of AV they demand as much attention as those of the 19th century masters.
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by piston » Mon May 27, 2013 7:45 pm

RebLem wrote:OK, so I went and got my entire Hindemith collection, al 8 inches of it.

1--The 3 Piano sonatas--Glenn Gould--1 CD
2--The 5 sonatas for brass and piano--Glenn Gould+--2 CDs
3--Complete sonatas, Vols 1-7--Ensemble Villa Musica--7 CDs
4--Octet for clarinet, bassoon, horn, violin, 2 violas, cello & bass (1957) |Septet for wind instruments (1948) |Sonata for 4 horns (1952)--St Luke's Chamber Ensemble--1 CD
5--Mathis der Maler Symphony |Concerto for winds, harp, & orch |Konzertmusik for brass & strings, Op. 50--Jiri Belohlavek, cond., Czech Phil--1 CD
6--Symphonia Serena |"Die Harmonie der Welt" Symphony--Blomstedt, Gewandhausorchester Leipzig--1 CD
7--"Mathis der Maler" Sym |Symphonic Metamorphosis of Themes by Weber |Konzertmusik for brass and strings, Op. 50 |Der Schwanendreher (Concerto after old folk songs for viola & small orchestra) |Nobilissima Visione Suite |duplicate of listing #6--Blomstedt, San Francisco Sym in CDs 1 & 2--3 CDs
8--Symphonic Dances |Ragtime |Pittsburgh Symphony--Jan Pascal Tortelier, BBC Phil--1 CD
9--The 7 Chamber Concerti--Ensemble Modern, Markus Stenz, cond--2 CDs
10--When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd--William Stone, baritone, Jan DeGaetani, mezzo-soprano, Robert Shaw, Atlanta Symphony--1 CD
11--Cardillac--Keilberth, cond, Koln RSO & Chorus & soloists--2 CDs

And yes, I have listened more than once to about a third of the above. I particularly like the Oboe Sonata on Vol 5 of the Ensemble Villa Musica series, the symphonies, and When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd.

And I am astonished by the short shrift given to Arthur Honegger in this thread. In addition to the more popular works like the symphonies and Joan of Arc at the Stake, I have a four cd set of his complete chamber music which I love immensely and have reviewed in CMG.
Reblem. You are perhaps labeling me wrong. Of course, Honegger's music is in my repertoire. King David. Joan of Arc. The symphonies and symphonic "movements." I also have his piano music ..... And more, such as his film music and concerti.

But.... his star and Milhaud's star are simply not shining as bright as they used to. Of the six, Poulenc has been rising, Milhaud and Honegger have been falling, and the other three never got on top of the totem pole.

I do not know why Honegger invested so much energy in oratorios. He had real potential as a symphonic music composer.

However one looks at the situation, Honegger has had less traction than Poulenc into this century.
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

RebLem
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by RebLem » Fri May 31, 2013 4:05 am

Of course, I also have some Hindemith on a fair number of multi-composer CDs. I just got through listening to a wonderful work, Konzertmusik for piano, brass, & harps, Op. 49 performed by the Berlin PO under Hindemith in 1955. Monique Haas is the pianist, and its on CD 7 of her 8 CD set of all her recordings for DGG.
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Steinway » Fri May 31, 2013 10:30 am

RebLem wrote:Of course, I also have some Hindemith on a fair number of multi-composer CDs. I just got through listening to a wonderful work, Konzertmusik for piano, brass, & harps, Op. 49 performed by the Berlin PO under Hindemith in 1955. Monique Haas is the pianist, and its on CD 7 of her 8 CD set of all her recordings for DGG.
Reb..

That's an impressive list of Hindemith's works, but I strongly suggest you listen to a recording of his Symphony in E Flat, recorded by Bernstein and the NY Philharmonic on Sony in 1964. There are a few others, includingTortelier on Chandos and Kegel on Berlin Classics.

I'd love to know your appraisal of this one.

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by Heck148 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:55 am

Steinway wrote:Hindemith's Symphony in E Flat is a magnificent work that is never performed by any major orchestra and this is a reality that boggles my mind. There are a few recordings, with Bernstein's NY Philharmonic the definitive one.
I agree wholeheartedly - the Eb Symphony is a terrtific work, one of the best of the many great 20th century synphonies that are un- or underperformed. Hindemith's Eb is a major work in every respect, quite a challenge for the orchestra...unfortunately, instead of this great piece, we get yet another Tchaik 5 of rach-y 2.

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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by karlhenning » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:30 pm

John F wrote:Hindemith was no forbidding modernist. His music was not atonal, and indeed less dissonant than works by Bartok (for example) that are often played and recorded. His orientation was neobaroque, "back to Bach" as it used to be said. The "Kleine Kammermusik" presents no great difficulties to a modestly educated ear, and it sounds like great fun to play.
Yes, this manner was one of Hindemith's signal talents.

Employing the Billy Wilder dictum, You're as good as the best thing you've done, I find that Hindemith wrote at his best in a great many pieces: all the Kammermusiken, really, the Ludus tonalis, Das Marienleben, and the Opp. 49 & 50 Konzertmusiken. I am tempted to add Cardillac there . . . .

Cheers,
~Karl
Karl Henning, PhD
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Re: How is Hindemith faring these days?

Post by karlhenning » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:34 pm

Chalkperson wrote:. . . I like the opera Cardillac but it can't be listened to without the visuals...
But, my dear fellow, I've done it .. . and repeatedly : )

Cheers,
~Karl
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
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