Leon Fleisher : "My White House Dilemma"

[Allen]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02979.html

[Chalkperson]

A conscience is a wonderful thing and writing to the Washington Post is almost better than snubbing Our Glorious Leader...

[Barry]

Another liberal artist. There's a surprise.
It may arguably be news when one of them comes out in favor of a Republican.....a real rarity there. I bet the honorees from the late 70s were thrilled to get their awards from Jimmy.

I'm not sure why these people think anyone cares about what they think on anything other than their art.

[Joe Barron]

I'm not sure why these people think anyone cares about what they think on anything other than their art.

Yeah, for God's sake, Leon, just shut up and play. Never mind that this is America. You exist solely for our entertainment.

I swear, this is the only board I visit where I can find die-hard Bushies. The 26 percent who still approve of him seem to hang out here.

[Barry]

I'm not sure why these people think anyone cares about what they think on anything other than their art.

Yeah, for God's sake, Leon, just shut up and play. Never mind that this is America. You exist solely for our entertainment.

I swear, this is the only board I visit where I can find die-hard Bushies. The 26 percent who still approve of him seem to hang out here.

Yes, this is America, so he can say whatever the hell he wants. But since when is a newspaper obligated to give that much space to the political views of an artist?

I've never voted for Bush, so you're wide of the mark in two respects. Although I realize it's gotten to the point in "America" where it's difficult for a lot of people to understand that one can approve of some policies of the man without being a "die-hard Bushie." Politics may be an either you're with him or us proposition to you, but it isn't to me.

[Chalkperson]

I'm not sure why these people think anyone cares about what they think on anything other than their art.

I'm not sure why you think anybody cares about your opinion on anything other than music...

[Barry]

I'm not sure why these people think anyone cares about what they think on anything other than their art.

I'm not sure why you think anybody cares about your opinion on anything other than music...

I don't. And therefore, you won't see me submitting any long explanations on my views to newspapers for publication. Now if Leon wants to come to the Corner Pub and spout off a bit, then I'd welcome him ... before telling him what I think of his views that is .

[Chalkperson]

Now if Leon wants to come to the Corner Pub and spout off a bit, then I'd welcome him ... before telling him what I think of his views that is .

Does the Corner Pub have a piano...

[Barry]

Now if Leon wants to come to the Corner Pub and spout off a bit, then I'd welcome him ... before telling him what I think of his views that is .

Does the Corner Pub have a piano...

I'm sure we can work on that for someone of Leon's "musical" sensibilities .

[Donaldopato]

I have always admired Leon Fleisher as a musician and almost fainted when I had the chance to be personally introduced to him. I admire him even more now.

And yes, thankfully this is a country where Mr Fleisher can express his views about a leader this way and where those who think otherwise are free to disagree.

[Joe Barron]

But since when is a newspaper obligated to give that much space to the political views of an artist?

A newspaper is never obligated to do anything. I assume the Post gave him the column because the editors believed he had something interesting to say, and he is a public figure by virtue of receiving the KC award. If you or I had something of similar interest to say about a similar dilemma we found ourselves in, they might publish our thoughts, too. It's called public discourse. It's what newspapers do.

We are, none of us, "obligated" to stick to our own little areas of art or commerce in giving our politcal opinions. If we were, we'd have no right to vote.

[Barry]

But since when is a newspaper obligated to give that much space to the political views of an artist?

A newspaper is never obligated to do anything. I assume the Post gave him the column because the editors believed he had something interesting to say, and he is a public figure by virtue of receiving the KC award. If you or I had something of similar interest to say about a similar dilemma we found ourselves in, they might publish our thoughts, too. It's called public discourse. It's what newspapers do.

We are, none of us, "obligated" to stick to our own little areas of art or commerce in giving our politcal opinions. If we were, we'd have no right to vote.

Of course they thought he had something interesting to say. It's probably virtually identical to what the Post Editorial Board has been saying the past few years; and virtually identical to what most other celebrities have to say on similar matters. I could drop Fleisher's name and substitute Bruce Springsteen, Edward Asner, Mike Farrell .... John Lennon in a past era .... you name it. I don't deny that they have a right to speak their opinions and the Post can publish whatever they want. But if they think the public, at least beyond liberal elites from the coasts who like to think that great artists and them are of one mind, care about what celebrities have to say on political matters, I think they're off their rockers (so I suppose you can say my problem is more with the Post than Fleisher). Boy that Bruce Springsteen rally made the difference for Kerry in Ohio in '04.
If anything, the continual drum beat of celebrity liberals turns off the public. Movies with anti-war messages got crushed at the box office last year. Most Americans don't want to be lectured by celebrity elites who don't share their values.

[Chalkperson]

I could drop Fleisher's name and substitute Bruce Springsteen, Edward Asner, Mike Farrell .... John Lennon in a past error .... you name it.

I think you meant something else...actually maybe you didn't...

[Barry]

I could drop Fleisher's name and substitute Bruce Springsteen, Edward Asner, Mike Farrell .... John Lennon in a past error .... you name it.

I think you meant something else...actually maybe you didn't...

Nah. I just read over my post and changed error to era. I tend to make a lot of mistakes like that because I'm often writing while I'm in a hurry. I fix the "errors" when I notice them .

[Werner]

Well, Barry, we know that Leon Fleisher is a great artist and a formidable intellectual - not just in music, we now find out.

[Ralph]

I also will not accept an invitation to perform at the White House or even attend a State Dinner so long as Bush is President. Don't try to change my mind.

[Barry]

Well, Barry, we know that Leon Fleisher is a great artist and a formidable intellectual - not just in music, we now find out.

To some of you. Some others may now see him as misguided and naive and may think twice about buying any more of his recordings .

[Ralph]

Well, Barry, we know that Leon Fleisher is a great artist and a formidable intellectual - not just in music, we now find out.

To some of you. Some others may now see him as misguided and naive and may think twice about buying any more of his recordings .

*****

Would you think twice about buying recordings from von Karajan or Mengelberg who certainly were not "naive?"

[Barry]

Well, Barry, we know that Leon Fleisher is a great artist and a formidable intellectual - not just in music, we now find out.

To some of you. Some others may now see him as misguided and naive and may think twice about buying any more of his recordings .

*****

Would you think twice about buying recordings from von Karajan or Mengelberg who certainly were not "naive?"

I avoided Karajan recordings for years before deciding I was only depriving myself since he was long dead. Whether we should separate an artist from the art is probably a topic for another thread. It's also one we've had out at length on numerous occasions, and people are free to disagree on it.

But when a celebrity decides his or her political views are important enough to be shared with the public, he or she assumes the risk that some of their audience will be alienated by those remarks. Speech is free, but not risk free.

[Ralph]

Well, Barry, we know that Leon Fleisher is a great artist and a formidable intellectual - not just in music, we now find out.

To some of you. Some others may now see him as misguided and naive and may think twice about buying any more of his recordings .

*****

Would you think twice about buying recordings from von Karajan or Mengelberg who certainly were not "naive?"

I avoided Karajan recordings for years before deciding I was only depriving myself since he was long dead. Whether we should separate an artist from the art is probably a topic for another thread. It's also one we've had out at length on numerous occasions, and people are free to disagree on it.

But when a celebrity decides his or her political views are important enough to be shared with the public, he or she assumes the risk that some of their audience will be alienated by those remarks. Speech is free, but not risk free.

*****

I agree with your concluding remark as the example of The Dixie Chicks shows. But unless a celebrity is off the rails, e.g., a Holocaust denier, I would never boycott their products based on their views. Others feel differently.

[Barry]

I agree with your concluding remark as the example of The Dixie Chicks shows. But unless a celebrity is off the rails, e.g., a Holocaust denier, I would never boycott their products based on their views. Others feel differently.

The reality is that I wasn't about to go out and by any Fleisher recordings even before reading this piece. I was just trying to make the larger point that there are risks to making political statements.

I won't be throwing out those that I already have though .

[Chalkperson]

But when a celebrity decides his or her political views are important enough to be shared with the public, he or she assumes the risk that some of their audience will be alienated by those remarks. Speech is free, but not risk free.

I think you are using the wrong word, I doubt if he sees himself as a Celebrity but you obviously do...to us he's a piainst and an artist...go read/write about Britney Spears instead, i'm sure you will find it more interesting...

[Barry]

But when a celebrity decides his or her political views are important enough to be shared with the public, he or she assumes the risk that some of their audience will be alienated by those remarks. Speech is free, but not risk free.

I think you are using the wrong word, I doubt if he sees himself as a Celebrity but you obviously do...to us he's a piainst and an artist...go read/write about Britney Spears instead, i'm sure you will find it more interesting...

I could have used the words "artist or entertainer" instead of "celebrity" and it wouldn't have changed the point as far as what I was thinking.

[CharmNewton]

He wasn't forced to go to the luncheon. If he really didn't want to go, he just shouldn't have gone. He may have had the opportunity to make his feelings known directly to the President and might even have had a discussion with him. Every interview I've seen with the President he is an open and friendly person. Instead, he opted for a venue where he bloviate without challenge. Sounds gutless to me.

John

[Chalkperson]

I could have used the words "artist or entertainer" instead of "celebrity" and it wouldn't have changed the point as far as what I was thinking.

yea, I just think Celebrity is such a bad word nowadays, I have no problem with your point, but he's not Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie or George Clooney...and they ain't Cary Grant or Aubrey Hepburn either...

Lots of winking going on in this thread...must be a Full Moon...

[Barry]

I confess to getting wink-happy lately.

My oldest friend and I, when we were teens, both picked up a habit of using the word "man" very frequently. We wanted to stop, so we started punching each other in the arm whenever one of us would say it. That cured the habit for both of us within a week.

Not that I'm requesting anything of that sort now.

[Joe Barron]

Of course they thought he had something interesting to say. It's probably virtually identical to what the Post Editorial Board has been saying the past few years; and virtually identical to what most other celebrities have to say on similar matters. I could drop Fleisher's name and substitute Bruce Springsteen, Edward Asner, Mike Farrell .... John Lennon in a past era .... you name it. I don't deny that they have a right to speak their opinions and the Post can publish whatever they want. But if they think the public, at least beyond liberal elites from the coasts who like to think that great artists and them are of one mind, care about what celebrities have to say on political matters, I think they're off their rockers (so I suppose you can say my problem is more with the Post than Fleisher). Boy that Bruce Springsteen rally made the difference for Kerry in Ohio in '04.
If anything, the continual drum beat of celebrity liberals turns off the public. Movies with anti-war messages got crushed at the box office last year. Most Americans don't want to be lectured by celebrity elites who don't share their values.

Good grief.

[Barry]

Good grief.

I'll put you down as unconvinced.

John used the word "bloviate." It's right on the money. The more I think about it, the more I think it's incredibly self-important for a guy like Fleisher to think that just because he received an award from Bush, he needs to let everyone know he doesn't like him; as if anyone even thought about that possibililty in the first place.

[ch1525]

He probably looked pretty damn goofy wearing his little peace symbol and his ribbon. I don't think it gave the impression that he desired; "at once showing support for our young men and women in the armed services and calling for their earliest return home."

More likely it just gave the impression that he was an unappreciative jerk! He was being honored for his music, not his political viewpoints, and while he is entitled to them, they really had nothing to do with the event.

I'm with you all the way on this, Barry. "Bloviate" is right!

I've been meaning to pick up the Beethoven Piano Concerto set for a really long time now, but I think I'll have to come across a really, really good deal if I'm going to buy it now!

[Chalkperson]

Good grief.

I'll put you down as unconvinced.

John used the word "bloviate." It's right on the money. The more I think about it, the more I think it's incredibly self-important for a guy like Fleisher to think that just because he received an award from Bush, he needs to let everyone know he doesn't like him; as if anyone even thought about that possibililty in the first place.

I think you guys are totally misreading him, he thought he got an Award from The Kennedy's and was forced to go to a Bush Function, the guy is 80 after all...this is the Chatterbox, not the Pub...jeez...This Guy Makes Demon Records...be Grateful not Patronising...

[CharmNewton]

I've been meaning to pick up the Beethoven Piano Concerto set for a really long time now, but I think I'll have to come across a really, really good deal if I'm going to buy it now!

This is a good set, but I find it more notable for Szell's accompaniments than Fleischer's playing of the solo part. He clearly labors with the opening of the Emperor Concerto. Szell's later set with Gilels is preferable in my opinion.

John

[Chalkperson]

I've been meaning to pick up the Beethoven Piano Concerto set for a really long time now, but I think I'll have to come across a really, really good deal if I'm going to buy it now!

This is a good set, but I find it more notable for Szell's accompaniments than Fleischer's playing of the solo part. He clearly labors with the opening of the Emperor Concerto. Szell's later set with Gilels is preferable in my opinion.

John

Search out the Gilels/Bohm Emperor on Orfeo, unbeleivable stuff...

[Corlyss_D]

Another liberal artist. There's a surprise.

Yes. Another idiot artist who has to use his art to express contempt for the US and all those poor ignorant souls that voted for Bush.

Well, I'll return the gesture: his discs are going in the trash, and I will avoid any concerts of his in the future, broadcast, televised, or recorded.

[Corlyss_D]

I'm not sure why these people think anyone cares about what they think on anything other than their art.

I'm not sure why you think anybody cares about your opinion on anything other than music...

One might say the same thing about your opinions on anything other than photography. It wouldn't be me, of course. It would have to be someone else.

Fleisher had an opportunity to stick it to a man with far more important decisions to make than what piece of music to program for a concert and he used it. Hell, he's not even first, or only! Does anyone think Fleisher would have said these things if he actually lived in the kind of state he thinks he's living in? He's an ill-bred poseur who wants to be thought of as political protester.

The KenCen honors have a rule that if you can't show up to get the prize, you can't be awarded the prize. That's why Irving Berlin never got it, althought no one arguably was more deserving than he. I'm going to write to them and suggest if an artist can't find it in his politics to go to the White House function afterward, to pay even that small respect to the nation whose enthusiasm made him worthy of the award in the first place, he can't get the prize either.

[RebLem]

He probably looked pretty damn goofy wearing his little peace symbol and his ribbon. I don't think it gave the impression that he desired; "at once showing support for our young men and women in the armed services and calling for their earliest return home."

More likely it just gave the impression that he was an unappreciative jerk! He was being honored for his music, not his political viewpoints, and while he is entitled to them, they really had nothing to do with the event.

I'm with you all the way on this, Barry. "Bloviate" is right!

I've been meaning to pick up the Beethoven Piano Concerto set for a really long time now, but I think I'll have to come across a really, really good deal if I'm going to buy it now!

I can assure you, it will be much more your loss than his, by a factor of thousands.

And tell me, what makes you so much better than any artist that he shouldn't exercise rights that you routinely do? Why should artists be made to feel that they are second class citizens?

Posted on February 12, 2008, the 343rd day before the end of the Cheney Administration. RebLem

[Donald Isler]

This column is getting dumber and dumber.

Going to the White House isn't necessary to "pay respect to the nation." As a distinguished American artist Fleisher has already done more to enhance America's reputation than most people. Our idiot-in-chief probably never heard of him before this. If anyone stops listening to his recordings because of this, it's their loss. Leon ain't suffering.

[Barry]

I've been meaning to pick up the Beethoven Piano Concerto set for a really long time now, but I think I'll have to come across a really, really good deal if I'm going to buy it now!

This is a good set, but I find it more notable for Szell's accompaniments than Fleischer's playing of the solo part. He clearly labors with the opening of the Emperor Concerto. Szell's later set with Gilels is preferable in my opinion.

John

But I don't think anybody else matches his entrance in the slow movement of that Emperor recording. It's a moment that often brings me to tears.

[Barry]

He probably looked pretty damn goofy wearing his little peace symbol and his ribbon. I don't think it gave the impression that he desired; "at once showing support for our young men and women in the armed services and calling for their earliest return home." ...

Yeah. I'm sure that's what most of the people in the military think when they see something like that. "Thanks for your support, Leon!"

[pizza]

Judging by what I've read of the public's low esteem of Lincoln during the Civil War as a result of the individual rights he summarily suspended for security reasons, I imagine Fleisher would have declined to play at his invitation as well if he had been alive at the time.

[Ralph]

Judging by what I've read of the public's low esteem of Lincoln during the Civil War as a result of the individual rights he summarily suspended for security reasons, I imagine Fleisher would have declined to play at his invitation as well if he had been alive at the time.

*****

Ah, but I have always argued that Lincoln was within his constitutional powers when he did that.

[pizza]

Judging by what I've read of the public's low esteem of Lincoln during the Civil War as a result of the individual rights he summarily suspended for security reasons, I imagine Fleisher would have declined to play at his invitation as well if he had been alive at the time.

*****

Ah, but I have always argued that Lincoln was within his constitutional powers when he did that.

I don't think that would have swayed Fleisher!

There were many lawyers at the time who argued that he wasn't.

[Chalkperson]

I'm not sure why these people think anyone cares about what they think on anything other than their art.

I'm not sure why you think anybody cares about your opinion on anything other than music...

One might say the same thing about your opinions on anything other than photography. It wouldn't be me, of course. It would have to be someone else.

It was a joke I was not being serious, merely mimiking his words in jest...and as you know I stopped giving any of my opinions in the Pub, however, if you are throwing out his discs send them to me instead...

[Ralph]

Judging by what I've read of the public's low esteem of Lincoln during the Civil War as a result of the individual rights he summarily suspended for security reasons, I imagine Fleisher would have declined to play at his invitation as well if he had been alive at the time.

*****

Ah, but I have always argued that Lincoln was within his constitutional powers when he did that.

I don't think that would have swayed Fleisher!

There were many lawyers at the time who argued that he wasn't.

*****

Well, there were plenty who said he was. Have you read Dan Farber's "Lincoln's Constitution?" I think you would enjoy it very much.