Hold on Now, It's About to Get Really Nasty

[JackC]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... obama.html

So Jimmy Carter has come out and said that a large part of the opposition to Obama is due to racism.

So pretty soon one either supports Obama or risk being called racist. wonderful

I'm sure that many of the people who oppose Obama's policies, many of whom are independents who have drifted away from Obama, will not take kindly to being accused of being racist.

This is Gates times 100. Thanks for those helpful calming words, Jimmy, you m*ron. The man is a positive menace.

[Barry]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... obama.html

So Jimmy Carter has come out and said that a large part of the opposition to Obama is due to racism.

So pretty soon one either supports Obama or risk being called racist. wonderful

I'm sure that many of the people who oppose Obama's policies, many of whom are independents who have drifted away from Obama, will not take kindly to being accused of being racist.

This is Gates times 100. Thanks for those helpful calming words, Jimmy, you m*ron. The man is a positive menace.

While Carter is obviously right in decrying comparisons between Obama and Hitler and saying Presidents should be treated with respect, his selectivity is nauseating. Did he sleep through the past eight years (I suspect it's more likely that he agreed with the Bush=fascist mantra from the left)? http://images.google.com/images?q=bush% ... =en&tab=wi

Of course, in Carter's case, selective outrage is par for the course. There are very few public figures who haven't committed serious crimes who I dislike as much as him. Those feelings grow stronger virtually every time he makes a public statement.

EDIT: I didn't click on the video, but I saw Carter's quotes that I described in an on-line article:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/polit ... acism.html

I agree with Jack. People who are genuinely acting out of racial hatred deserve to be called on it. But too many people on the left are using the term too widely and I'm sure it's breeding the kind of resentment I felt when McCain, who I admire greatly, was accused of running a racist campaign for running ads or doing other things that had nothing whatsoever to do with race (not to mention charges in the press that the only reason McCain could be within striking distance in the polls was because of racism). People had better be careful or Jack is right about how ugly this is going to get. Those who oppose Obama's policies shouldn't have to walk on eggshells in expressing their opinions, as long as they do so without regard to race and with the proper amount of respect for the President, and I'm afraid too many people on the left have a difficult time accepting that there are valid reasons that have nothing to do with race or hate to criticize the President.

[rwetmore]

To me this is great news. It's a sign that they are getting desperate, and that's a most welcome thing this early in the game.

[Barry]

To me this is great news. It's a sign that they are getting desperate, and that's a most welcome thing this early in the game.

Well I don't enjoy this one bit and I don't think any political benefits that may go to the GOP as a result of it are worth any increased race-based hostility in the country.

[JackC]

To me this is great news. It's a sign that they are getting desperate, and that's a most welcome thing this early in the game.

Well I don't enjoy this one bit and I don't think any political benefits that may go to the GOP as a result of it are worth any increased race-based hostility in the country.

I agree. This has the potential to rip the already torn political fabric of the country wide open.

[rwetmore]

Well I don't enjoy this one bit and I don't think any political benefits that may go to the GOP as a result of it are worth any increased race-based hostility in the country.

I mean it's great news because it signifies they're losing on substance.

[rwetmore]

This has the potential to rip the already torn political fabric of the country wide open.

I have to disagree here. I think the vast majority of people on both sides know this is BS.

[Werner]

One point of disagreement and two of agreement:

No, R Wetmore, nobody is getting desperate. Obama and team are operating in extraordinary circumstances and have to take extraordinary step to extricate us from the inherited mess. In an atmosphere like this, some silly things get said. As we come out of the economic difficutles, the numbers and spirits are apt to improve, and road ahead will look more encouraging.

I am more in sync with the feelings excpressed by Jack and Barry as regards the respect due the president.

As far as Mr. Carter goes, I think we all have learned to take his opinions with more than the proverbial grain of salt. Concerning racism, with the history of this country it is not surprising that a marginal remnant of racism expresses itself in the political arena. Like any extreme opinion, that just can't be ignored - BUT I do not believe that this is a major part of the oppoition to Obama, and I agree with Jack and Barry about the potential effect of such a statement on our political dialog, which, as you know, is not in such great shape as is, IMO.

[rwetmore]

No, R Wetmore, nobody is getting desperate. Obama and team are operating in extraordinary circumstances and have to take extraordinary step to extricate us from the inherited mess.

Which means what exactly in the context of this thread? If you want to continue repeating the standard spoon fed mantra from the administration, please at least do where it makes contextual sense.

[Corlyss_D]

One really great thing about the libs over-reliance on the race card: We're very close to the end of the label's radioactivity. They have not been circumspect about how they use it. Once it achieves the status of "bitch" or "bastard," it's rhetorical usefulness is finished.

[keaggy220]

Carter has gone the way of the NYT's. No one takes him seriously except the faithful.

[jbuck919]

Look folks, you can't have it both ways. If Carter is a loose cannon speaking only for himself when it serves your purpose to denigrate him, he can't suddenly become the spokesman for others when it's your purpose to denigrate them.

[RebLem]

One point of disagreement and two of agreement:

No, R Wetmore, nobody is getting desperate. Obama and team are operating in extraordinary circumstances and have to take extraordinary step to extricate us from the inherited mess. In an atmosphere like this, some silly things get said. As we come out of the economic difficutles, the numbers and spirits are apt to improve, and road ahead will look more encouraging.

I am more in sync with the feelings excpressed by Jack and Barry as regards the respect due the president.

As far as Mr. Carter goes, I think we all have learned to take his opinions with more than the proverbial grain of salt. Concerning racism, with the history of this country it is not surprising that a marginal remnant of racism expresses itself in the political arena. Like any extreme opinion, that just can't be ignored - BUT I do not believe that this is a major part of the oppoition to Obama, and I agree with Jack and Barry about the potential effect of such a statement on our political dialog, which, as you know, is not in such great shape as is, IMO.

Werner, you don't think racism is a major part of the opposition to Obama because you live in NY. But I saw a truck go by me the other day that had the most charming little bumper sticker. It had a picture of the White House with the Confederate flag flying over it, with the caption "I have a dream, too!"

[RebLem]

Post deleted by author.

[Barry]

One really great thing about the libs over-reliance on the race card: We're very close to the end of the lable's radioactivity. They have not been circumspect about how they use it. Once it achieves the status of "bitch" or "bastard," it's rhetorical usefulness is finished.

Hume addresses that point:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ilson.html

Two things need to happen in this country; and sooner rather than later. Those on the right need to call out those who clearly ARE basing their opposition to the President on race (like the person with the bumper-sticker Rob mentioned). And those on the left had better start being VERY careful about throwing the charge of racism out there with a wide net; at least if they have any interest in avoiding both the resentment and anger that those of us who oppose many of the President's policies for reasons that have nothing to do with race and the weakening of the impact of racism charges that Corlyss and Hume mentioned. And of course, most importantly, both of those things need to happen because we don't want race relations to take a longterm slide backwards in this country after generations of progress.

[JackC]

Werner, you don't think racism is a major part of the opposition to Obama because you live in NY. But I saw a truck go by me the other day that had the most charming little bumper sticker. It had a picture of the White House with the Confederate flag flying over it, with the caption "I have a dream, too!"

You could spot signs like that BEFORE the election. No one denies that there are some bigots out there who oppose Obama because be is black. You can find bigots and extremists, on the left and on the right, on any issue.

The point is that the fact that there are some bigots out there does not show that the opposition to Obama that has developed is racially motivated. It has more to do with the direction in which he wants to take the country. There are a lot of people who are not comfortable with a trillion dollar stimulus package that contains what seems to many to be too much political pork, a budget with a 2 trilion dollar deficit, a "climate control" bill that includes "cap and trade" which will not crimp Al Gore's lifestyle, but which will make energy very much more expensive for most people and eliminate many jobs in the short run, and of course, healthcare reform that is to cost another trillion dollars.

You and others may think all of this is all wonderful, but a lot of people think, rightly or wrongly, that it is irresponsible and will do substantial long-term damage to our econony going forward. Whether they are right or wrong, their opposition has nothing to do with race. Bill and Hillary are white, but their attempt to nationalize healthcare was a disaster. It cost the Dems the House in 1994 and almost brought down his presidency before it started.

Obama has decided to take on this issue at his own political risk and has discovered that it is still very much a hot-button issue. But if Hillary were in the White House instead of Obama, and was doing the same things, the opposition would be just as the vitriolic. In fact, I suspect it might even be worse.

It was irresponsible for Carter to suggest that race is behind this. The man never ceases to find ways to do damage.

[Cyril Ignatius]

When I was a student, I used to read all the books about Jimmy Carter, including the ones he had written. But as I learned more, my sense of him went from that of a hero to that of a major jerk. He is clearly one of the worst President's we ever had, and he is unquestionably the most vain, obnoxious and obtuse Ex-President of modern times.

This statement on Obama's opposition is typical Carteresque blather.

[Werner]

I don't know whether it's increasing age and the attendant mellowness or something worse, but here I find myself in civilized agreement with a few guys on the other side of the argument.

Cyril, no need to argue with your statement - as one of 1980's "ABC - Anyone But Carter" voters, I think I'm a charter member of that club.

Barry, your argument for a civilized tone in the discussion - so hard to avoid, even in the Pub, isn't it? - will find no disagreement from me.

And, Jack, while i suspect that you and I should perhaps stick to discussing Schubert interpreters, your mention of bigots and extremists is apt. I seem to remember that you accused me of name-calling in an earlier post. Going back over my own posts, I don't see any names I've called anybody. On the other hand, you can find threads with "fraud," "Commie," Socialist," and such, launched by guess what side of the argument.

All of which avoids the real argument, which you have stated, I think, correctly. I don't hold myself out as an expert but I've been around for a while - and even so, I'm not comfortable with huge deficits and such things. Nor am I comfortable with self-professed experts on public policy on the right wing - not referring to you - as mentioned by Corlyss in the Docs thread. To me that's just another political promotional scam like all the others.

So we have that difference of opinion you state, and, realizing the problems, I'm on the other side of the argument. We seem to have gotten ourselves into this difficult economic situation by fealty to old orthodoxies and failures of regulatory authority, and there is just no way we can get out of it by orthodox means. Much the same applied to the Hoover/FDR transition in a different time and a different context.

If the economic recovery proceeds - we seem to be in the middle of the turnaround, probably the toughest stage,- the mood should lighten, and the deficit shrink with better times ahead.

As for health care, what all the vocal opposition ignores and doesn't dare admit is that this has been handled with greater efficiency, lower costs, and, just to mention one example, greater longevity in practically all the rest of the civilized world. Time to play catchup.

[karlhenning]

Barry, your argument for a civilized tone in the discussion - so hard to avoid, even in the Pub, isn't it? -

Delighted that someone else has observed the irony ; )

Cheers,
~Karl

[Barry]

Barry, your argument for a civilized tone in the discussion - so hard to avoid, even in the Pub, isn't it? -

Delighted that someone else has observed the irony ; )

Cheers,
~Karl

Care to include the rest of Werner's sentence?

KH par for the course.

[karlhenning]

Barry, your argument for a civilized tone in the discussion - so hard to avoid, even in the Pub, isn't it? -

Delighted that someone else has observed the irony ; )

Care to include the rest of Werner's sentence?

KH par for the course.

A: What complaint do you have with my post, exactly?

B: All of Werner's remark is immediately above.

Barry par for the course. Yawn.

Cheers,
~Karl

[nut-job]

Although I count myself an Obama supporter in most things, I find Carter's accusation baseless. (Not that I rule out that race was an influence on Rep. Wilson's attitutes, but there is no evidence to base such an accusation on.) Although I agree that some of Carter's post-Presidential meddling has not been helpful, he has done some good things.

[JackC]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32869276/ns ... itol_hill/

Jimmy Carter has called a WHOLE LOT of independent, moderate and senior voters who are are now against Obama's policies racists. Many of those voters don't view themselves as racists and may not like being called racist.

The White House knows what a problem this could be, and now has to issue statements like these. Good work Jimmy.

[Barry]

Barry, your argument for a civilized tone in the discussion - so hard to avoid, even in the Pub, isn't it? -

Delighted that someone else has observed the irony ; )

Care to include the rest of Werner's sentence?

KH par for the course.

A: What complaint do you have with my post, exactly?

B: All of Werner's remark is immediately above.

Barry par for the course. Yawn.

Cheers,
~Karl

Werner:

"Barry, your argument for a civilized tone in the discussion - so hard to avoid, even in the Pub, isn't it? - will find no disagreement from me."

If I misinterpreted your intent in any way, Karl, I apologize. But you see, it's been so long since you have addressed anything I've written in the Pub without either sarcasm or flat out rancor, that it seemed difficult to believe that you'd suddenly break from that patten.

[Werner]

Barry:

I don't know whether you are adddressing part or all of your post to Karl, or which part you might have intended for me.

But if the major part of your post actually refers to me, I'd suggest that you're being - pardon the expression - conservative, in carrying grudges.

For the record, I may exercise my right to criticize - in which I'm certainly not alone, am I? - I may even occasionally be sarcastic, although I've not tried to be lately, but basically I try to say what I want to say as straightforward as I can. So from where I sit, I'd say that what you see is what you get. Perhaps - and I'm not being sarcastic - if you keep this in mind, you'll understand me better. And I'll try to extend the same courtesy to you.

[Barry]

Barry:

I don't know whether you are adddressing part or all of your post to Karl, or which part you might have intended for me.

But if the major part of your post actually refers to me, I'd suggest that you're being - pardon the expression - conservative, in carrying grudges.

For the record, I may exercise my right to criticize - in which I'm certainly not alone, am I? - I may even occasionally be sarcastic, although I've not tried to be lately, but basically I try to say what I want to say as straightforward as I can. So from where I sit, I'd say that what you see is what you get. Perhaps - and I'm not being sarcastic - if you keep this in mind, you'll understand me better. And I'll try to extend the same courtesy to you.

You had nothing to do with the exchange, Werner, other than incidentally. I thought Karl was using an incomplete quote of yours to take one of his usual sarcastic potshots at me, but I may have misinterpreted.

[living_stradivarius]

Even Al Sharpton says this health care debacle shouldn't focus on race

[piston]

I do occasionally enjoy being the devil's advocate.....

Carter had his qualities and his flaws, like every president.

Let's try to be scientific, here. On the basis of CMG Pub thread frequency or, if you will, of the ratio of anti-Obama Pub threads per all other Pub threads, how does he fare compared to president Bush at any point of the latter's presidency in CMG Pub history? Were the anti-Bush threads ever so numerous and so predominant on a single Pub page, let alone on several successive ones?

Perhaps Carter has a point. It isn't so much the anti-Obama rhetoric that is racist but the unwillingness to accept anything, absolutely anything, coming from this president. And surely one can identify a few posters who belong in that category.

[JackC]

I do occasionally enjoy being the devil's advocate.....

Carter had his qualities and his flaws, like every president.

Let's try to be scientific, here. On the basis of CMG Pub thread frequency or, if you will, of the ratio of anti-Obama Pub threads per all other Pub threads, how does he fare compared to president Bush at any point of the latter's presidency in CMG Pub history? Were the anti-Bush threads ever so numerous and so predominant on a single Pub page, let alone on several successive ones?

Perhaps Carter has a point. It isn't so much the anti-Obama rhetoric that is racist but the unwillingness to accept anything, absolutely anything, coming from this president. And surely one can identify a few posters who belong in that category.

I don't accept any of his current economic/social policies now. I think we would be better off in the long run if none of them get passed. The only thing that I support is the need to do what is required to rescue the banking/financial system. Bush was doing it, and Obama has continued it. That was good.

But the trillion dollar "stimulus" package?? NO! (but I would have supported a big but less porked filled bill if used ito build some infrastructure etc.)

As for the climate bill, cap and trade, the trillion dolar budget busting healthcare bill - NO.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that he is black. If it were Bill, Hillary or Al Gore peddling the same stuff, my positon would be the same.

By the way, there were a whole bunch of Dems who were against Bush who had an "unwillingness to accept anything, absolutely anything, coming from [that] president". He was called a liar and every other name in the book by prominent Dems. The people more to the extreme left carried the same Hitler/Nazi signs againt Bush that the fruitcakes on the right are now carrying.

Our politics are getting nastier and nastier.

Carter is not helping because he called too many people racist. It will hurt Obama and the Dems with moderates, independents and seniors who have come to oppose Obama's policies, but know they are not racists and don't appreciate being called racist.

[RebLem]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32869276/ns ... itol_hill/

Jimmy Carter has called a WHOLE LOT of independent, moderate and senior voters who are are now against Obama's policies racists. Many of those voters don't view themselves as racists and may not like being called racist.

The White House knows what a problem this could be, and now has to issue statements like these. Good work Jimmy.

Well, you have to work with the ex-presidents you have, not the ex-presidents you wish you had, as Rummy might say. And voters are not necessarily entitled to everything they want.

Let us not forget where Carter lives. He lives in a small, rural Georgia town. He has lived there all his non-naval life. And it is a place with a long history of racism. Its the kind of place where people these days may not want to use the N word in public at a town hall meeting when the cameras are rolling, but if the cameras are not around and the two of you are standing in line at a checkout counter in a supermarket, its often a different story. It seems to me that one ought to respect the views that develop from such experience.

[JackC]

Let us not forget where Carter lives. He lives in a small, rural Georgia town. He has lived there all his non-naval life. And it is a place with a long history of racism. Its the kind of place where people these days may not want to use the N word in public at a town hall meeting when the cameras are rolling, but if the cameras are not around and the two of you are standing in line at a checkout counter in a supermarket, its often a different story. It seems to me that one ought to respect the views that develop from such experience.

Sorry, that might be an explanation/justification for some local from Plains, Georgia, but it doesn't work for a man who went on to be governor of Georgia and then the President of the US. Not only SHOULD he have a broader perspective, he has a responsibilty to understand that as a former President of the US, his words matter a whole lot. He should not be calling a large portion of the US population that now opposes Obama policies racist.

This is just the latest in a long line of these screw ups. He is always prepared to assume and say the worst about the US. Don't forget he sat next to Michael Moore at the Democrat convention in 2004, and no one hates the US more than Michael Moore. I think there is something deeply wrong with him, perhaps he hates the country that ended up hating and rejecting him (the hardest thing for a politician). Regardless, he is a fool and a disgrace. He should never have been President.

[Kevin R]

I find it ironic that a man who used racially questionable tactics in his run for governor is now playing the race card against those who have the gall to push back against Obama's power grab. Is it possible, just possible, that those who oppose this boondoggle do so on ideological grounds, and not because of race? Carter is such a disgraceful man, but he always has been.