Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

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How would you describe your mind?

Poll ended at Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:39 pm

open--heck, I don't believe anything anyway!
5
36%
semipermeable--I might let new ideas in or old ones out
8
57%
closed but not locked--knock hard & I'll look through the peephole
1
7%
hermetically sealed--hell will freeze over before this opens!
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 14

NancyElla
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Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by NancyElla » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:39 pm

How certain are you in your beliefs? How open are you to new ideas, opinions that differ from your own, or information that conflicts with something you believe?

I'd like to be absolutely certain in what I believe and to feel utterly convinced that I'm always right (just ask my husband!). Unfortunately, however, my life has provided me ample evidence that my judgment is not always perfect and that things are not always what they at first appear to be, so I attempt to maintain some level of openness to contrary points of view. Keeping in mind Mark Twain's observation that "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so," I try to consider at least the possibility that I may be wrong about things. What about you?

Go ahead and vote in the poll, but I'm really much more interested in the discussion. :lol: Have you ever changed a strongly held opinion? How did that happen? Do you engage in dialogue (not shouting matches) with people who hold views very different from your own? Do those people influence your thinking? Do you influence their thinking?

What type of information, if any, would get you to reconsider a strongly held opinion or belief? Are there some beliefs you hold that you consider to be absolute truth, not subject to any revision or modification?
Last edited by NancyElla on Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"This is happiness; to be dissolved into something complete and great." --Willa Cather

THEHORN
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by THEHORN » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:20 pm

I like to think I have an open mind, but I don't think I'm the kind whose mind is so open his brains have fallen out !





:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

NancyElla
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by NancyElla » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:38 pm

THEHORN wrote:I like to think I have an open mind, but I don't think I'm the kind whose mind is so open his brains have fallen out !





:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You talkin' to me? When you say that, smile! (oh, so you did.) :lol:
"This is happiness; to be dissolved into something complete and great." --Willa Cather

MarkC
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by MarkC » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:57 pm

Interesting poll......and, did you yourself choose and phrase those choices?
If so -- nice job!

Me: semi-permeable.
Don't expect me to be sane, I'm playing Scriabin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ySs4aQ8 ... D6&index=0

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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by Corlyss_D » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:14 pm

THEHORN wrote:I like to think I have an open mind, but I don't think I'm the kind whose mind is so open his brains have fallen out !
Quoting George Will! Maybe there's hope for you yet. :wink:

On the instant poll, this is not scientific, is it? :lol:

Depends on the issue.

On some things I am open to facts that persuade me I need a new perspective (e.g., maybe HIP/OI Shubert won't sound horrible).

On some my mind is not subject to change. (Politics is not one of them despite what you might think. I used to be a liberal Democrat, so see?)

On 90% of what crosses my radar, I don't care one way or the other. If I don't care, I usually defer to others who do. It means more to them.
Corlyss
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Madame
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by Madame » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:20 pm

Very good topic ... but as to which choice, it depends on the subject. And my discernment quotient of the moment!

MarkC
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by MarkC » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:22 pm

Madame wrote:.....as to which choice, it depends on the subject. And my discernment quotient of the moment!
Sounds like that's either "semi-permeable" or "closed but not locked."

Pick one. :)
Don't expect me to be sane, I'm playing Scriabin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ySs4aQ8 ... D6&index=0

Madame
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by Madame » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:28 pm

MarkC wrote:
Madame wrote:.....as to which choice, it depends on the subject. And my discernment quotient of the moment!
Sounds like that's either "semi-permeable" or "closed but not locked."

Pick one. :)
I ... I .... I'll think about it tomorrow ...

IcedNote
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by IcedNote » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:56 pm

I chose "open"; I'll believe anything with sufficient evidence. ;)

-G
Harakiried composer reincarnated as a nonprofit development guy.

NancyElla
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by NancyElla » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:20 am

MarkC wrote:Interesting poll......and, did you yourself choose and phrase those choices?
If so -- nice job!

Me: semi-permeable.
I voted "semipermeable" too, although for me it is frequently more of a goal than a state of being. When I find myself too far toward either extreme, I try to move back toward the center. My degree of openness of mind varies not only by issue but also by the day, the hour, the amount of sunlight, the morning news. . . .

Yes, the categories and descriptions are mine. They are completely unscientific, of course, but phrased in general the way I think about my own state of mind.
"This is happiness; to be dissolved into something complete and great." --Willa Cather

living_stradivarius
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by living_stradivarius » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:51 am

hmmm does 'open' mean being unable to say 'no?' :)
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RebLem
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by RebLem » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:42 am

Closed but not locked--knock hard & I'll look through the peephole.

Having said that, however, I must say that, while I am a liberal on most things, I am conservative about some things. I am aganst the loosening of voter registration restrictions and the expansion of the number of people authorized to register people to vote under HAVA. I agree with the Republicans on the census--that its supposed to be an enumeration, no statistical sampling allowed. And I believe Anita Hill lied about Clarence Thomas--I didn't at first, but as the hearings proceeded, I thought Sen. Orrin Hatch came up with a very convincing theory of how she came up with those accusations.

Sometimes, I find fault in nearly everyone's ideological model. Let me write of two examples. First, sex education. The "abstinence only" people think giving information on birth control to kids gives them permission to have sex. They are wrong, mostly because kids get their values from their parents and their peers, not their teachers very often. Secondly, what the other side is usually saying is something my father and his father said to each other when I was a child in the 40's and 50's, in such a way that they left the distinct impression it was an old, long standing, family joke. Upon parting at the end of a visit, one or the other would say, "Well, be good. But if you can't be good, be careful." I suspect this is a joke which is not unique to my family. Did yours have it, too?

The other side is wrong, too. They want to dispense birth control information on the presumption that it will lead to markedly fewer pregnancies. Thirty one years as a public aid caseworker dealing with pregnant, unmarried teens for all but six of them has taught me that the vast majority of teens who get pregnant did so because they wanted to get pregnant. They are kids with neglectful parents, or, more often, just a neglectful mother and an absent father who think a child will love them. A young man is just one of those unpleasant things like labor pains you have to put up with for a while to get a baby. And, if they are at all churched, and a sizable number are, there is another reason. They go to church on Sunday and get completely ignored, even pushed around, as 6, 7, 8, 9 year olds. But at the end of the service, they see all the blue-haired ladies make a beeline for the newest, youngest mother in the congregation. Then its all smiles and gentleness, and a welcoming into the Sisterhood. A young 12 or 13 year old girl who has never had much attention from her mother or female relatives or the older women in her church finds that welcoming enormously seductive. She craves it, and will do what she has to do to get it.

A third way, the one which has, in my view, the most promise, has been gaining some ground in recent years. Dolls have been developed which mimic in many ways, the behavior of a newborn child. Young, at risk teens are given these ydolls, and they then learn that a baby doesn't love anyone. A baby does four things--it eats and cries, and poops and pees. That's it. Nothing else. It doesn't give anything. It only takes, or seeks to. It can be enormously draining for young people who are totally unprepared for it. And, they learn, before it is too late.

Now, another thing in a totally different area, international macro behavior. Right wingers see Third World leaders nationalizing industries, and think they are operating on the same sort of tired, proven wrong models as European Communist parties--you seize the means of production to end capitalist greed and exploitation of workers. But what right wingers do not understand is that Third World leaders nationalize industries for totally different reasons. They have populations with a strong Libertarian streak in them, who resent being taxed by the government because they are poor and can't afford to pay. So, Third World leaders turn to socialism as a way of insuring an independent income stream for government operations so they don't have to bother the common folk for the money to sustain government operations. This is something right wingers just do not seem to understand, and their approaches are doomed to failure until they do.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
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Teresa B
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by Teresa B » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:27 am

Open, because all too often I've found reality to be counterintuitive. (...Or have I actually found reality at all? :D )

Teresa
"We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." ~ The Cheshire Cat

Author of the novel "Creating Will"

DavidRoss
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by DavidRoss » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:39 am

Semi-permeable. Some things are known through direct experience. i.e. individuals are never the sum of all the stereotypes we might apply to them, or if you guzzle a pint of whiskey on top of a few beers and glasses of wine then you'll probably regret it later. I'm not likely to change my mind about such direct knowledge.

On the other hand, synthetic knowledge deduced through logical analysis of known or suspected facts is never certain and thus always open to correction as more information becomes available. Premises may be mistaken, or relevant data may be unknown at the time conclusions are formed. I hope that I always remain open to full and fair consideration of all relevant facts, rather than selecting only those convenient to predetermined conclusions. And I hope that I always retain the intellectual integrity to let my beliefs be determined by rational analysis of such facts.
"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
"Truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it; but, in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill

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Brendan

Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by Brendan » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:00 pm

A truly open mind can only be brought about with religious practice. :wink:

http://www.openmindzen.com/

81. Until our minds in purity have transcended our own being and that of all things sequent to God, we have not yet acquired a permanent state of holiness. When this noble state has, by means of love, been established in us, we shall know the power of the divine promise. For we must believe that where the intellect, taking the lead, has by means of love rooted its power, there the saints will find a changeless abode. He who has not transcended himself and all that is in any way subject to intellection, and has not come to abide in the silence beyond intellection, cannot be entirely free from change.
82. . . . he who has advanced altogether beyond intellection, and has renounced it because he has transcended it, has come to dwell to some extent in unity.

Maximus the Confessor – First Century on Theology and the Incarnate Dispensation of the Son of God [Philokalia Volume 2, Faber & Faber 1981 p132]

THEHORN
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by THEHORN » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:12 am

Why is a mind like a parachute? It doesn't work unless it's open !






:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

rwetmore
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by rwetmore » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:47 am

I would say in general I have an open mind - that is I'm always operating under the assumption that I could be persuaded if the weight of the facts, logic and evidence are there. This does not mean that I don't have a high degree of certainty about a lot of my beliefs because I do. It does mean that if significant contradictory evidence for any such belief were to be discovered, my belief would change.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

DavidRoss
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by DavidRoss » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:59 pm

rwetmore wrote:I would say in general I have an open mind - that is I'm always operating under the assumption that I could be persuaded if the weight of the facts, logic and evidence are there. This does not mean that I don't have a high degree of certainty about a lot of my beliefs because I do. It does mean that if significant contradictory evidence for any such belief were to be discovered, my belief would change.
There is a great deal of evidence in your posts that supports the rationality you describe. If only everyone were equally rational, and equally aware of the difference between rationality and rationalization. :wink:
"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
"Truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it; but, in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill

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rwetmore
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by rwetmore » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:13 pm

DavidRoss wrote:There is a great deal of evidence in your posts that supports the rationality you describe. If only everyone were equally rational, and equally aware of the difference between rationality and rationalization. :wink:
Well thanks. I do try. I'm under no illusion though - I have biases and life experiences like everyone else. I do try to discipline myself to be rational as much as a can.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

Corlyss_D
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by Corlyss_D » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:16 pm

The best we can do as mere mortals is to be aware of our biases and let that awareness make us a tad more humble about disagreements of opinion.
Corlyss
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Madame
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by Madame » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:35 pm

“Believe nothing, entertain possibilities” ... Caroline Casey

dulcinea
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by dulcinea » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:45 pm

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
but that of openmindedness certainly is.
The website of EL VOCERO reports that Gov Fortun~o presented as an argument in favor of PR statehood the fact that more than a 100 languages are spoken in cities such as LA, NYC and SF, which--he says--proves Spanish has a place in the US Reich; several readers' replies showed that its authors bought that argument.
To which I replied: So Mexican Spanish, Polish, Chinese and Vietnamese are spoken in the big cities of the USA... So what? Mexico, Poland, China and Vietnam are not states of the USA, so there is no relation between languages spoken in the big cities of the USA and the political status of the countries from which those languages come, including nations such as PR, Guam and American Samoa!
Not only is that argument fundamentally fallacious, but it's made totally ridiculous by the fact that it is proposed by a ,,Puerto Rican'' :lol: :lol: :lol: whose Spanish is so poor that it is constantly lampooned by the comedians of PR.
Truly, the quality of openmindedness is sadly wasted on two-legged jackasses.
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

Corlyss_D
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Re: Your mind--Open, Semipermeable, Closed, Hermetically Sealed?

Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:52 pm

Madame wrote:“Believe nothing, entertain possibilities” ... Caroline Casey

:D Love it!
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

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