Carl Paladino's Not So Excellent Adventures

[RebLem]

Tea Party NY Gov Candidate's E-Mails Exposed: Racism, Porn, Bestiality

Zachary Roth | April 12, 2010, 11:39AM | TPMMuckracker

An online news outlet in New York state has obtained dozens of emails, many of them racist and sexually graphic, which it reports were sent by Carl Paladino, the Tea-Party-backed Republican candidate for governor of New York, to a long list of political and business associates. One email shows a video of an African tribal dance, entitled "Obama Inauguration Rehearsal," while another depicts hardcore bestiality.

Paladino's campaign manager, Michael Caputo, would not comment on specific emails, but acknowledged to TPMmuckraker that Paladino had sent emails that were "off-color" and "politically incorrect," saying that few such emails represented the candidate's own opinion. Caputo accused Democrats of wanting to change the subject from substantive issues to "having sex with horses."

The news outlet that obtained the emails, http://www.WNYmedia.net , a western New York media company, says it confirmed that at least some of the emails were authentic by contacting several people who had received them.

Paladino, a wealthy western New York real-estate developer, has become a darling of the Tea Party movement over the last year, and launched his campaign for governor last week after being urged to do so by Tea Party leaders. Paladino is staunchly opposed to abortion and same-sex marriage, and has said he considers himself "the only Republican in the race who agrees 100 percent with conservative values."

But the slew of emails, obtained by http://www.WNYmedia.net , a western New York media company, depict a different side of the candidate. Here are descriptions some of the most eyebrow-raising:

• An October 2009 email with a photograph showing President Obama and the First Lady dressed in 70s-era blaxploitation pimp and prostitute costumes while attending a formal event at the White House. [The doctored photo can be found at the link for this story. RebLem]

• A December 2008 email showing a video of African tribesmen performing a traditional dance. The video is entitled "Obama Inauguration Rehearsal."

• A September 2009 email entitled, "Easy Steady Big Fella....XXXX," with a photograph that graphically depicts a horse having sex with a woman.

• A January 2010 email, containing a hardcore pornographic video entitled "Miss France 2008 F[***]ing."

• A July 2009 email showing a photograph of an airplane landing directly behind a group of black men. The caption reads: "Holy Sh*t. run ni**ers, run!"

When one recipient complained about the "Obama inauguration" email, calling Paladino a racist, Paladino responded by apologizing "if that is offensive." He added: "I'm not a racist and have never related Obama's color to my political distaste for him....I'm not sensitive to ethnic humor."

Other emails from Paladino are here-- http://wnymedia.net/paladino/ [WARNING: Not for the faint of heart. RebLem] All the emails were either originally sent, or forwarded, by Paladino, WNYmedia confirms. The emails went to a long list of Paladino associates, in local and state government, politics, and business.

In a statement to TPMmuckraker, Caputo, the campaign manager, said:

Carl Paladino has forwarded close friends hundreds of email messages he received. Many of these emails he received were off color, some were politically incorrect, few represented his own opinion, and almost none of them were worth remembering.

We're not surprised the political establishment feels threatened by Carl's drive the take Albany back for taxpayers. Our campaign won't be wading through the details of what is just another liberal Democrat blog smear. It figures that members of the Party who brought us record taxes, record spending and record debt would want to change the topic from reform to having sex with horses and S&M parlors.

The S&M parlor is a reference to one of Paladino's rivals for the GOP nomination, Steve Levy, who, it was reported today, once lived with an ex-con who had pleaded guilty in a mortgage fraud scheme involving an S&M club.

Paladino lacks the institutional support enjoyed by the front-runners for the GOP nomination, former congressman Rick Lazio and Levy, a county executive. But Paladino has said he's willing to spend $10 million of his own fortune on the race, meaning he could be a factor nonetheless.

This is hardly the first time that the outspoken Paladino, 63, has courted controversy. He recently said that health-care reform "will kill more Americans through deteriorating health care than were lost on 9/11." After Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-NY) criticized the comment, Paladino declared in a letter in response: "I am not impressed that you kissed enough asses to chair a committee of politicians in the Congress."

In 2008, he said at a public forum in Buffalo that the only reason Public Schools Superintendent James Williams had been hired was because he is black.

And we recently learned that the long-married, conservative Paladino fathered a child during an extramarital affair in the 90s.

Late Update: Paladino has responded to the email brouhaha at a press conference, declaring he's not a racist , and adding:

To any of the ladies I've offended [You think only "ladies" were offended, Carl? Shows how totally out of touch you are. RebLem], I apologize. I say this to the men out there who have never opened a graphic image on the Internet: Don't vote for me. For those who have, I welcome your vote.

Separately, his spokesman, Caputo, accused Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, the front-runner for the Democratic gubernatorial nomination, of being behind the leak. [Good for him, if true. RebLem]

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... ?ref=fpblt

[jbuck919]

Here's what the New York Post (aha, you were expecting the Times, weren't you?) has to say:


New York Post Updated: Tue., Apr. 13, 2010, 4:20 AM home
Bigot from Buffalo

Last Updated: 4:20 AM, April 13, 2010

Posted: 1:33 AM, April 13, 2010

New York's Tea Party movement -- which last fall helped drive the tax- protest defeat of two county executives -- has been ga-ga of late over Buffalo millionaire developer Carl Paladino, who proposes to spend $10 million of his own money to run for governor this fall.

The movement had better reconsider -- fast.

Because it turns out that the self-described "angry man" is something of a magnet for e-mails studded with hard-core pornography and vile racism -- which he then passes along to a whole lot of others.

WNYmedia, an upstate leftist blog, reproduced eight of the e-mails, including one with a video of a woman engaged in bestiality and another, labeled "Obama Inauguration Rehearsal," that shows African tribesmen dancing.

One video, which showed a purported beauty queen having sex, was praised by Paladino as "a keeper." Another, showing a woman engaged in oral sex, was labeled: "This is talent."

Pretty classy, huh?

Um, no.

Sure, it's hard to control an e-mail in-box. The "forward" button, on the other hand, doesn't push itself.

Paladino sounds like a low-rent version of Eliot "Client 9" Spitzer.

And this isn't the first embarrassment for Paladino, who formally launched his statehouse bid last week.

After he roundly denounced Gov. Paterson's admitted infidelities as evidence of Albany corruption, it emerged that Paladino had himself fathered a daughter in an extramarital affair with one of his employees.

Late yesterday, Paladino's campaign issued a statement denouncing disclosure of the e-mails as a "liberal Democrat blog smear."

That is, it's all somebody else's fault.

And we thought Carl Paladino was supposed to be a stand-up guy.

Guess not.


Copyright 2010 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.

[Guitarist]

And we thought Carl Paladino was supposed to be a stand-up guy.

Now it's time for him to step down.... What a sorry excuse for a human.

[Teresa B]

I wonder when conservatives who keep defending teabaggers will finally notice that the so-called leaders are racists? Oh well, my fervent hope is that the Tea Party runs Sarah Palin in 2012.

Teresa

[John F]

Oh, I think the GOP should nominate Paladino and he should be himself in the campaign. Cards on the table. These people should subject themselves to the people's vote, not just friendly talk show hosts and meaningless straw polls. Then at least we'd know where the country stands, for better or worse.

[Barry]

I wonder when conservatives who keep defending teabaggers will finally notice that the so-called leaders are racists? Oh well, my fervent hope is that the Tea Party runs Sarah Palin in 2012.

Teresa

I've already acknowledged that there are racists at tea party events. And I'll take your prompt and acknowledge some of the movements leadership are racists. But I still stand by my earlier claims that most people who go to tea party events don't do so for anything related to race. I walked past a small tea party event on Independence Mall last year. There was not even a hint of anything unrelated to economic issues. We also had a larger tea party in the suburbs and while I wasn't at that one, again, there were no reports of anything unrelated to economic issues being said or displayed on signs.

And I'm still waiting for YOU to acknowledge that rank-and-file tea partiers go to those events, for the most part, because of their economic concerns, and not because the President is black. In fact, they protest the Congress as much as they do the President.

[karlhenning]

NY Tea Party Gov hopeful Carl Paladino sent racist emails

You know, given the nature of grammar in headlines, I actually read sent in passive voice at first, giving Paladino the benefit of the doubt.

Cheers,
~Karl

[Barry]

I've repeatedly shown photos that give conclusive proof that there are also haters who did horrendous things at left wing rallies throughout the Bush years.

I recently read a book on left wing extremists from the 60s and 70s that provides ample evidence that some of the leaders of the anti-Vietnam War movement were not only Communist sympathizers, but that they actually met with and took direction from leading members of regimes in Communist countries who were our avowed enemies, not to mention whole-sale political murderers in virtually every case.

Did that render the anti-war movement invalid or those who went to protests as sharing the values of those leadership figures?

As I've said before, the double standard is not only sickening, but the clear effort by Democrats to paint those who oppose the President as a bunch of Klans-men who have no valid concerns on their mind is absolutely infuriating; not to mention terrible for the country.

The anger I've felt over the extent to which some liberals have attempted to paint opposition to the Democrats' agenda as being driven mainly by racism and hatred and not valid opposition to their policies has driven me almost to the point where I want to throw my arms up and just walk away from politics altogether. Who needs this crap. Unfortunately, I don't see it changing any time soon. If race relations slide backwards in this country, it won't be only because of the actions of genuine racists. It will be every bit as much the result of the efforts of some on the left to take the actions of a few and label an entire movement with what they did. Do you not think there are going to be repercussions for doing that? Do you even stop to think about the bitterness it causes when you tell people their valid concerns are nothing more than race-driven hate?

To hell with you.

[RebLem]

I've repeatedly shown photos that give conclusive proof that there are also haters who did horrendous things at left wing rallies throughout the Bush years.

I recently read a book on left wing extremists from the 60s and 70s that provides ample evidence that some of the leaders of the anti-Vietnam War movement were not only Communist sympathizers, but that they actually met with and took direction from leading members of regimes in Communist countries who were our avowed enemies, not to mention whole-sale political murderers in virtually every case.

Were any of these people millionaire real estate developers?

Did any of them have credentials like these, obtained from Paladino's bio @ his own company's website?
http://www.ellicottdevelopment.com/abou ... -paladino/

Carl Paladino, CEO

As CEO of Ellicott Development Company, which he founded in 1973, and a life-long advocate of the City of Buffalo, Carl is best known for championing strategic ideas and plans to bring new life to the city and region.

To his credit, Carl has consistently invested in Western New York, beginning his career with his largest single real estate purchase to this day, the acquisition of the Ellicott Square. Now, Ellicott Development Co. manages over 2 million square feet of office, retail and residential space, making Ellicott Development the largest private landlord in downtown Buffalo today. Carl is a risk-taker, unafraid to pioneer strategic retail developments in the most economically depressed areas of Buffalo, Syracuse, and Albany.

Carl attended St. Bonaventure University and the Syracuse University College of Law. He received his Juris Doctor degree in 1971 and traveled to Fort Bliss, Texas to serve in the U.S. Army. Carl returned to Buffalo the following year, eventually undertaking the management role for the New York City-based owners of the Ellicott Square, and establishing the law firm of Paladino, Cavan, and Quinlivan. He retired from service as a Captain in 1981.

As a successful and experienced businessman, forever loyal to the City of Buffalo, Carl is frequently sought out to share his leadership and expertise with many organizations. He is a Director of Buffalo Place, Inc., a Trustee of Bishop Timon/St. Jude High School, a Director of Buffalo Civic Auto Ramps, and a former Director of the Horizons Waterfront Commission. He is also former member of the Executive Board of the Niagara Frontier Council of the Boy Scouts of America, and the Advisory Boards of Erie Community College and D’Youville College. Carl is also a former Trustee of St. Bonaventure University and past Chairman of the Buildings and Grounds Committee, having presided over the planning and construction of many of the physical improvements and renovations seen at the college today.

In 1991, Carl was honored by the City of Buffalo as Buffalonian of the Year and in 1993 as Alumnus of the Year by St. Bonaventure University. Most recently, Leadership Buffalo honored Carl with the Leadership Impact Award for having the vision, energy and commitment in the removal of the tollbooths on the city’s borders.

A life-long resident of the City of Buffalo, Carl is honored to be married to Mary Catherine Hannon and is blessed with three children: William, Danielle, and Patrick; and 3 grandchildren, Carl William and Grace Catherine, Claire Ryan.

Carl Paladino, CEO

[Barry]

One was a U.S. Congressman and current mayor of Oakland. Ron Dellums assisted and allowed some of these leftist radicals who were actively involved with some of our sworn enemies and some of the more ruthless regimes in the world at the time, as well as being some of the high profile anti-Vietnam War activists of the day, to use his office to further their work. He was also personally involved with these foreign governments and also vocally anti-war. Is that credentialed enough for you?

As disturbing as it may be, I really do believe you see racism almost everywhere, Rob. I think you're genuinely sincere; and of course, also profoundly wrong about how far we've progressed as a country and what the most serious dangers are to African Americans now and in the future. But unfortunately, there are a lot of Democrats who aren't as principled as you who are latching on to painting right wingers and all tea-baggers as racist loonies for political gain. They may get some short-term benefit on playing this up. it's going to have such horrendous consequences in terms of pushing the level of hostility in this country beyond even where it is now (on both sides; both those who seem to see racism everywhere and are pushed on by these reports; and also those who are strongly opposed to the President's agenda for strictly policy reasons, but who now feel like they're being lumped in with the people in these isolated cases), that I would hope some of the people on your side would stop and think about what they're doing before pushing this strategy any further.

We're reaching the ultimate PC nightmare in this country. It's difficult to be strongly critical of the President without people on the left raising their eyebrows and wondering whether the opposition is valid or based on racism. That will naturally lead to a chilling of speech on the part of conservatives. They won't feel comfortable being honest about their political views because they won't want to be accused of racism. Then if the next election isn't completely in line with the polls in what for liberals is the wrong direction, they'll scream "Bradly Effect," without even considering that their actions brought it about in the first place.

If people on the left can go to an anti-war rally without being depicted as a raving hater because a couple people at the rally or even, without their knowledge, some of the people organizing the rallies have some questionable ties, then people on the right need to be able to express their discomfort with the Democratic agenda without being depicted as knuckle-dragging racists if we're ever going to get anywhere in this country. Not only are most of the people who go to tea bag rallies not doing anything wrong; they're actively engaging in a way that is praise-worthy.

[RebLem]

Barry, you chose to ignore the central point of my last post. It was possible to do that because the central point was unspoken. I thought it would be so obvious that no one could escape it. But, apparently not, so let me be specific.

Carl Paladino is a racist and a sexist, and as vile a one as you can get short of actual physical violence. That is obvious from the kind of emails he sends to, apparently, a pretty wide circle of friends. He is also a millionaire real estate developer, one of the most prominent citizens of Buffalo, NY, which I emphasize partly because my niece Jessica lives and works in Amherst, right next door (she's the senior curator of the Amherst Museum), and her husband is an engineer at a major firm in Buffalo. Mr. Paladino circulates crude racist videos showing African tribesmen dancing in grass skirts and labelling them "Obama Inauguration Rehearsal," before Obama had any kind of presidential record to attack, and who circulates videos with sneering commentary of women having sex with animals. One wonders what sort of chance for advancement or even basic fair treatment a black man or a woman would have in his company. And yet, though these videos have been pretty widely distributed, it does not keep him from being one of the most prominent citizens of a major Northern city. We are not talking Selma, Alabama here. He has been on the boards of two Roman Catholic educational institutions, and a member of the board of the region's Boy Scout council, among other things. He is part of the warp and woof of his community, one of its most prominent and admired leading citizens. I believe that this demonstrates that virtually any kind of racism or sexism is acceptable to the citizens of that community; they apparently draw the line only at physical violence.

What I'd really like to see is the results of a detailed search of Mr. Paladino's computer, showing what kind of response he got to these emails from other prominent citizens. Maybe that would explain why his campaign manager is still able to say with a straight face that he is not a racist or sexist. It looks like no one has ever taken him to task for this, although someone must have been disgusted, or these things would never have come to the attention of the press.

And then we wonder where pedophile clergy come from.

[Barry]

Barry, you chose to ignore the central point of my last post. It was possible to do that because the central point was unspoken. I thought it would be so obvious that no one could escape it. But, apparently not, so let me be specific.

Carl Paladino is a racist and a sexist, and as vile a one as you can get short of actual physical violence. That is obvious from the kind of emails he sends to, apparently, a pretty wide circle of friends. He is also a millionaire real estate developer, one of the most prominent citizens of Buffalo, NY, which I emphasize partly because my niece Jessica lives and works in Amherst, right next door (she's the senior curator of the Amherst Museum), and her husband is an engineer at a major firm in Buffalo. Mr. Paladino circulates crude racist videos showing African tribesmen dancing in grass skirts and labelling them "Obama Inauguration Rehearsal," before Obama had any kind of presidential record to attack, and who circulates videos with sneering commentary of women having sex with animals. One wonders what sort of chance for advancement or even basic fair treatment a black man or a woman would have in his company. And yet, though these videos have been pretty widely distributed, it does not keep him from being one of the most prominent citizens of a major Northern city. We are not talking Selma, Alabama here. He has been on the boards of two Roman Catholic educational institutions, and a member of the board of the region's Boy Scout council, among other things. He is part of the warp and woof of his community, one of its most prominent and admired leading citizens. I believe that this demonstrates that virtually any kind of racism or sexism is acceptable to the citizens of that community; they apparently draw the line only at physical violence.

What I'd really like to see is the results of a detailed search of Mr. Paladino's computer, showing what kind of response he got to these emails from other prominent citizens. Maybe that would explain why his campaign manager is still able to say with a straight face that he is not a racist or sexist. It looks like no one has ever taken him to task for this, although someone must have been disgusted, or these things would never have come to the attention of the press.

And then we wonder where pedophile clergy come from.

I understand what you're saying, Rob. I'm not denying he's a horrible guy. But how is my comparison off point? Rob Dellums continued and continues to win elections in a major city in spite of being open about where his sympathies were for years; be it with mass-murdering Communist regimes, or smaller-scale thugs like the Black Panthers. There is simply very little you can claim in the way of behavior from right wing extremists (with whom I have no more sympathy with than you do) that I can't find a counter-example for on the extreme left. The differences are that the press makes it easy for you to find these examples while the types of examples I have posted on here numerous times have to be found by those willing to seek and I wouldn't claim that everyone who went to anti-war rallies, be they in the 60s or a few years ago during the Iraq War, are tainted by the actions of some of the leaders of those movements or those who did things like hanging a Bush doll dressed in a Nazi uniform from a noose.

Further, if you and others only stuck to individual cases and never made efforts to blanket the entire tea party movement, and by inference, all those who participate in it because of these individual cases that arise, I might feel differently. But you know as well as I do that that hasn't been the the case.

And the worst part about that is that in many cases (not on this board, but in the real political world), it's been done for political gain and nothing more.

I'm done arguing about this. I've let you and others know how strongly I feel about it. You're going to do what you feel is right, and I'm going to continue to feel you're being grossly unfair at times in terms of the double standard you operate by and also letting your understandable hatred for racism make you take your eye of the ball in terms of what the most serious problems facing blacks are.

[RebLem]

I understand what you're saying, Rob. I'm not denying he's a horrible guy. But how is my comparison off point? Rob Dellums continued and continues to win elections in a major city in spite of being open about where his sympathies were for years; be it with mass-murdering Communist regimes, or smaller-scale thugs like the Black Panthers. There is simply very little you can claim in the way of behavior from right wing extremists (with whom I have no more sympathy with than you do) that I can't find a counter-example for on the extreme left. The differences are that the press makes it easy for you to find these examples while the types of examples I have posted on here numerous times have to be found by those willing to seek and I wouldn't claim that everyone who went to anti-war rallies, be they in the 60s or a few years ago during the Iraq War, are tainted by the actions of some of the leaders of those movements or those who did things like hanging a Bush doll dressed in a Nazi uniform from a noose.

Further, if you and others only stuck to individual cases and never made efforts to blanket the entire tea party movement, and by inference, all those who participate in it because of these individual cases that arise, I might feel differently. But you know as well as I do that that hasn't been the the case.

And the worst part about that is that in many cases (not on this board, but in the real political world), it's been done for political gain and nothing more.

I don't think you do understand, Barry. My point is that Paladino, in his native habitat (Buffalo and environs) is the emperor who has no clothes, and no one dares tell him about it because every museum, every charity, every educational institution, seeks his larghesse. That is why he is, I believe, genuinely surprised at the public reaction to his statements from people who see him clearly and have no hope of their or their causes being recipients of his larghesse. "I've been in business 30+ years and never had this kind of reaction before, so you must be the one who is out of line when he objects," he seems to be saying. From his perspective, its a reasonable statement. No one in the Buffalo area dares to tell him the truth about himself. Not only does money talk, it shuts other people up.

By contrast, plenty of people were always willing to tell Ron Dellums stuff he didn't want to hear.

[Teresa B]

I've repeatedly shown photos that give conclusive proof that there are also haters who did horrendous things at left wing rallies throughout the Bush years.

I recently read a book on left wing extremists from the 60s and 70s that provides ample evidence that some of the leaders of the anti-Vietnam War movement were not only Communist sympathizers, but that they actually met with and took direction from leading members of regimes in Communist countries who were our avowed enemies, not to mention whole-sale political murderers in virtually every case.

Did that render the anti-war movement invalid or those who went to protests as sharing the values of those leadership figures?

No. Just because there were communist sympathizers doesn't mean everyone was a communist, just as NO, not EVERYONE in the Tea Party crowd is a racist, and YES, if their complaint is that they feel they suffer too many taxes, or too many entitlements, they have a right to protest peacefully.

As I've said before, the double standard is not only sickening, but the clear effort by Democrats to paint those who oppose the President as a bunch of Klans-men who have no valid concerns on their mind is absolutely infuriating; not to mention terrible for the country.

The anger I've felt over the extent to which some liberals have attempted to paint opposition to the Democrats' agenda as being driven mainly by racism and hatred and not valid opposition to their policies has driven me almost to the point where I want to throw my arms up and just walk away from politics altogether. Who needs this crap. Unfortunately, I don't see it changing any time soon. If race relations slide backwards in this country, it won't be only because of the actions of genuine racists. It will be every bit as much the result of the efforts of some on the left to take the actions of a few and label an entire movement with what they did. Do you not think there are going to be repercussions for doing that? Do you even stop to think about the bitterness it causes when you tell people their valid concerns are nothing more than race-driven hate?

To hell with you.

This is totally uncalled for. And it's too bad that you are so blindsided by opposition to the President Obama that you don't see that you are trying to heave the responsibility for the damaging of race relations on Democrats who call out racism, when it rightfully belongs on the racists themselves. I am perfectly willing to agree that not every teabagger is acting out of racism. But as opposed to commies who were leading non-commies in the Vietnam era, the consequences of racists whipping up crowds in this country could lead to one, or a few idiots taking very, very horrific action against our president.

...And just for the record, where were all these Tea Partiers when Bush was taking us into a preemptive war in Iraq and spending $50 gazillion/day?

Teresa

[SaulChanukah]

Once the Republicans turn to racism in order to promote anything, they will become losers.

Obama's skin color shouldn’t be the issue, his policies should be criticized, and that's about it.

Too bad that within the Republican establishment there are a number of peasants who let their voices heard, their voices need to be shut out and let the reasonable, and honorable people take charge, free of any racism and bigotry.

I personally dislike Rush, because he speaks with arrogance thinking that he knows what's the very best for this country and everyone else is stupid.
I also believe that Palin is not capable to lead this country, she gets nervous when confronted with complex questions. She might be smart, but if she cant show it with clear well articulated answers to difficult questions, then she gives the impression of incompetence, and the American people cant afford this now.

Obama in my opinion is in fact an idiot, but he is articulate and well spoken, and that's about the only reason he was elected, besides the hype of his skin color.
Regrettably, what a person says and how he says it, shows those of us who don't know him on a personal level, his level of education and intelligence.
Americans were enamored by his empty rhetoric, but you can't blame them because they thought they were electing someone who was smart and wise, but when the smooth talk cleared out, they were confronted with the reality, that this man was nothing more then a one man act show.

If Palin wants the American people to be impressed by her, she needs to work on her communication skills. She needs to bring some formality to the discussion, and stop talking like a mom who talks to her children. The American people are not her kids or her close relatives, she needs nobility and elegance, things she lacks desperately.

What the Republicans and the American people need today firstly is not a woman candidate. They need an honorable well spoken highly charismatic individual that can communicate his message clearly and give answers to the difficult questions in an organized and calm manner. The decisions that will be needed to be made in the near future shouldn’t be infused with 'emotions' but with intelligence, that's is why in these difficult times, a woman candidate will be a mistake.

[Barry]

This is totally uncalled for. And it's too bad that you are so blindsided by opposition to the President Obama that you don't see that you are trying to heave the responsibility for the damaging of race relations on Democrats who call out racism, when it rightfully belongs on the racists themselves. I am perfectly willing to agree that not every teabagger is acting out of racism. But as opposed to commies who were leading non-commies in the Vietnam era, the consequences of racists whipping up crowds in this country could lead to one, or a few idiots taking very, very horrific action against our president.

...And just for the record, where were all these Tea Partiers when Bush was taking us into a preemptive war in Iraq and spending $50 gazillion/day?
Teresa

The problem isn't calling out racism when it's really there (and it obviously is in the case of Paladino). But you went beyond that in your earlier post on this thread, as you usually do. As I've told you over and over, obviously without getting through to you, the problem is attaching the label of "racist" to a movement that is overwhelmingly comprised of people who are interested in valid issues that have nothing to do with race because of the actions of a few of its members. They're behaving as American citizens should behave, and you're labeling their movement as racist. In fact, you're much more like those you hate than you apparently realize. How many people around this country watch their local news, especially if they live in or near a major city, and develop unfair stereotypes of Africa-Americans because on an everage night on that news, they see three stories about violent crimes committed by African Americans and then jump to the kinds of racist conclusions we all hate. I'm trying to determine a difference between that and you labeling the entire Tea Party movement as a racist endeavor based on these reports of isolated people who actually do and say racist things, but I can't.

Ask John McCain, and if he was still alive, Admiral Stockdale whether there were any consequences to the actions of those "commies." In fact, ask those from the North Vietnamese leadership who are still around. Then ask the family members of those who were murdered by that leadership.

On your last paragraph, while I would love to see wasteful spending eliminated like everyone else, as a matter of principle, I would guess that I'm like a majority of Americans in thinking defense spending shouldn't be skimped on and that domestic cuts should come first. I'm aware that you consider Iraq to have been a blunder and a waste of money, but you weren't our elected leader. The man who was, quite reasonably to many people (including many leading Democrats) at the time, felt that after 9/11, Saddam needed to be disarmed or forcefully removed from power. I blame him like everyone else for doing such a lousy job in underplanning for what would happen after the invasion. I can turn your statement around and ask why the liberals who were yelling about what throwing away all of those billions on a lousy war was doing to our debt/deficit aren't up in arms about the fact that the projected debts and deficits keep getting worse under Obama. I'm also probably fairly typical in not really becoming truly alarmed about the situation with our debt/deficit and future until I heard the $9 trillion figure thrown out for a future deficit projection. It was only a few years ago that $1 trillion would have been alarming. That $9 trillion figure didn't come out until the Iraq War was winding down. The assumption in your question is wrong because your timing is off. Perhaps we should have been more alarmed sooner, but billions didn't jump to trillions until around the end of Bush's term. And even with that, the single thing I heard Republicans criticize him for more than anything else was that he "spent like a Democrat" and wasn't doing anything to get the deficit under control. Add to that the fact that so many Americans, with good reason I may add, don't believe Democratic claims that the health care reform is going to make matters better. It will instead make it even more difficult to get our finances under control. And the timing of the rallies makes more sense.

I researched this on-line a little further last night. There have actually been efforts by a couple left wingers to get those who feel like Rob and Teresa do about the Tea Baggers to infiltrate them and shout or do things (racist, homophobic, etc.) that will make them look bad, especially when there is media around. I'm beginning to take seriously the claims of some of our conservative members that some of those shouting the N-word or whatever else they shout are plants that are trying to harm the movement's reputation. That's not to say that I'm naive enough to think there are no racists at these gatherings (although I'm not going to generalize and say most people are; and even those who are may be there because of other reasons), but we're in the era of PC; not Jim Crow. Most people have the minimal intelligence necessary to figure out that it makes you look bad to most people now days when you behave like that in public.

[JackC]

It is very much the Dems fault because, for very concious political reasons, they have tried to label an entire movement- tea party - as racist. (Acknowledging the obvious fact that "not all" tea baggers are racists doesn't detract from the main thrust of the attack.)

This was false and absurd. The opposition to Obama's agenda is broad and deep. Scott Brown didn't win a miracle victory in Massachusetts because Massachusetts is racist. The tea party is composed of lots of people who are just fed up with the direction of Obama/Pelosi etc and decided to get involved politically.

This was bound to happen when Obama misread his "mandate" and tried to take a center/right country that is always suspicious of big govertment, sharply to the left.

Crying wolf on racism is a big mistake. It causes peope to disregard those cries when there is real racism at work. Also, people resent being called racist. That the Dems chose to go down this road is a shame, and also may come back to bite them.

[jbuck919]

It is very much the Dems fault because, for very concious political reasons, they have tried to label an entire movement- tea party - as racist. (Acknowledging the obvious fact that "not all" tea baggers are racists doesn't detract from the main thrust of the attack.)

This was false and absurd.

Absolutely. The tea party should be attacked for the real reasons that it is the work of the devil.

[HoustonDavid]

This article put the Tea Party in a whole new light for me, and in the interest of fairness
to both our conservative members and more liberal ones (which I certainly am) I thought
I would share it. I am really surprised nobody else beat me to it. Please take special note
of the source, make sure you read to the end: another surprise there.

Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated

The New York Times
By KATE ZERNIKE and MEGAN THEE-BRENAN
Published: April 14, 2010

Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45.

They hold more conservative views on a range of issues than Republicans generally. They are also more likely to describe themselves as “very conservative” and President Obama as “very liberal.”

And while most Republicans say they are “dissatisfied” with Washington, Tea Party supporters are more likely to classify themselves as “angry.”

The Tea Party movement burst onto the scene a year ago in protest of the economic stimulus package, and its supporters have vowed to purge the Republican Party of officials they consider not sufficiently conservative and to block the Democratic agenda on the economy, the environment and health care. But the demographics and attitudes of those in the movement have been known largely anecdotally. The Times/CBS poll offers a detailed look at the profile and attitudes of those supporters.

Their responses are like the general public’s in many ways. Most describe the amount they paid in taxes this year as “fair.” Most send their children to public schools. A plurality do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and, despite their push for smaller government, they think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost to taxpayers. They actually are just as likely as Americans as a whole to have returned their census forms, though some conservative leaders have urged a boycott.

Tea Party supporters’ fierce animosity toward Washington, and the president in particular, is rooted in deep pessimism about the direction of the country and the conviction that the policies of the Obama administration are disproportionately directed at helping the poor rather than the middle class or the rich.

The overwhelming majority of supporters say Mr. Obama does not share the values most Americans live by and that he does not understand the problems of people like themselves. More than half say the policies of the administration favor the poor, and 25 percent think that the administration favors blacks over whites — compared with 11 percent of the general public.

They are more likely than the general public, and Republicans, to say that too much has been made of the problems facing black people.

Asked what they are angry about, Tea Party supporters offered three main concerns: the recent health care overhaul, government spending and a feeling that their opinions are not represented in Washington.

“The only way they will stop the spending is to have a revolt on their hands,” Elwin Thrasher, a 66-year-old semiretired lawyer in Florida, said in an interview after the poll. “I’m sick and tired of them wasting money and doing what our founders never intended to be done with the federal government.”

They are far more pessimistic than Americans in general about the economy. More than 90 percent of Tea Party supporters think the country is headed in the wrong direction, compared with about 60 percent of the general public. About 6 in 10 say “America’s best years are behind us” when it comes to the availability of good jobs for American workers.

Nearly 9 in 10 disapprove of the job Mr. Obama is doing over all, and about the same percentage fault his handling of major issues: health care, the economy and the federal budget deficit. Ninety-two percent believe Mr. Obama is moving the country toward socialism, an opinion shared by more than half of the general public.

“I just feel he’s getting away from what America is,” said Kathy Mayhugh, 67, a retired medical transcriber in Jacksonville. “He’s a socialist. And to tell you the truth, I think he’s a Muslim and trying to head us in that direction, I don’t care what he says. He’s been in office over a year and can’t find a church to go to. That doesn’t say much for him.”

The nationwide telephone poll was conducted April 5 through April 12 with 1,580 adults. For the purposes of analysis, Tea Party supporters were oversampled, for a total of 881, and then weighted to their proper proportion in the poll. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points for all adults and for Tea Party supporters.

Of the 18 percent of Americans who identified themselves as supporters, 20 percent, or 4 percent of the general public, said they had given money or attended a Tea Party event, or both. These activists were more likely than supporters generally to describe themselves as very conservative and had more negative views about the economy and Mr. Obama. They were more angry with Washington and intense in their desires for a smaller federal government and deficit.

Tea Party supporters over all are more likely than the general public to say their personal financial situation is fairly good or very good. But 55 percent are concerned that someone in their household will be out of a job in the next year. And more than two-thirds say the recession has been difficult or caused hardship and major life changes. Like most Americans, they think the most pressing problems facing the country today are the economy and jobs.

But while most Americans blame the Bush administration or Wall Street for the current state of the American economy, the greatest number of Tea Party supporters blame Congress.

They do not want a third party and say they usually or almost always vote Republican. The percentage holding a favorable opinion of former President George W. Bush, at 57 percent, almost exactly matches the percentage in the general public that holds an unfavorable view of him.

Dee Close, a 47-year-old homemaker in Memphis, said she was worried about a “drift” in the country. “Over the last three or four years, I’ve realized how immense that drift has been away from what made this country great,” Ms. Close said.

Yet while the Tea Party supporters are more conservative than Republicans on some social issues, they do not want to focus on those issues: about 8 in 10 say that they are more concerned with economic issues, as is the general public.

When talking about the Tea Party movement, the largest number of respondents said that the movement’s goal should be reducing the size of government, more than cutting the budget deficit or lowering taxes.

And nearly three-quarters of those who favor smaller government said they would prefer it even if it meant spending on domestic programs would be cut.

But in follow-up interviews, Tea Party supporters said they did not want to cut Medicare or Social Security — the biggest domestic programs, suggesting instead a focus on “waste.”

Some defended being on Social Security while fighting big government by saying that since they had paid into the system, they deserved the benefits.

Others could not explain the contradiction.

“That’s a conundrum, isn’t it?” asked Jodine White, 62, of Rocklin, Calif. “I don’t know what to say. Maybe I don’t want smaller government. I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security.” She added, “I didn’t look at it from the perspective of losing things I need. I think I’ve changed my mind.”

[Barry]

Crying wolf on racism is a big mistake. It causes peope to disregard those cries when there is real racism at work.

That's another point I neglected top mention, but which I agree with you on strongly. It obviously still gets to me, but I believe many people on this board probably ignore claims of racism on Rob's part for the same reason they ignore allegations of anti-semitism on Saul's part. There are times when they're both right. But they throw the allegation out there so often when they aren't right, that people are going to start tuning them out, even when they're right, as in the case that started this thread.

[jbuck919]

This article put the Tea Party in a whole new light for me, and in the interest of fairness
to both our conservative members and more liberal ones (which I certainly am) I thought
I would share it. I am really surprised nobody else beat me to it.

I saw it. I just don't like to appear to give the other side grist for its mill.

Some defended being on Social Security while fighting big government by saying that since they had paid into the system, they deserved the benefits.

Others could not explain the contradiction.

“That’s a conundrum, isn’t it?” asked Jodine White, 62, of Rocklin, Calif. “I don’t know what to say. Maybe I don’t want smaller government. I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security.” She added, “I didn’t look at it from the perspective of losing things I need. I think I’ve changed my mind.”

I question the value of the education of anyone who thinks that their Social Security is a return on the their cumulative payroll tax. Or that trimming waste, a goal we all agree on when we agree on what is waste, is the answer rather than question-begging.

[Barry]

I saw it. I just don't like to appear to give the other side grist for its mill.

I've been told that by highlighting some of the massive problems that disproportionately take place within the African-American community in this country, as I have on here a number of times in recent months and years, that I give ammunition to racists. My response is that there are worse things than giving ammunition to close-minded haters who are going to exist whether we walk on egg-shells on their behalf or not (in my case, I think failing to openly and head-on address the problems that are causing the most harm to the black community will have worse consequences than giving ammunition to racists).

[JackC]

This article put the Tea Party in a whole new light for me, and in the interest of fairness
to both our conservative members and more liberal ones (which I certainly am) I thought
I would share it. I am really surprised nobody else beat me to it. Please take special note
of the source, make sure you read to the end: another surprise there.

Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated

The New York Times
By KATE ZERNIKE and MEGAN THEE-BRENAN
Published: April 14, 2010

Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45.

They hold more conservative views on a range of issues than Republicans generally. They are also more likely to describe themselves as “very conservative” and President Obama as “very liberal.”

And while most Republicans say they are “dissatisfied” with Washington, Tea Party supporters are more likely to classify themselves as “angry.”

The Tea Party movement burst onto the scene a year ago in protest of the economic stimulus package, and its supporters have vowed to purge the Republican Party of officials they consider not sufficiently conservative and to block the Democratic agenda on the economy, the environment and health care. But the demographics and attitudes of those in the movement have been known largely anecdotally. The Times/CBS poll offers a detailed look at the profile and attitudes of those supporters.

Their responses are like the general public’s in many ways. Most describe the amount they paid in taxes this year as “fair.” Most send their children to public schools. A plurality do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and, despite their push for smaller government, they think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost to taxpayers. They actually are just as likely as Americans as a whole to have returned their census forms, though some conservative leaders have urged a boycott.

Tea Party supporters’ fierce animosity toward Washington, and the president in particular, is rooted in deep pessimism about the direction of the country and the conviction that the policies of the Obama administration are disproportionately directed at helping the poor rather than the middle class or the rich.

The overwhelming majority of supporters say Mr. Obama does not share the values most Americans live by and that he does not understand the problems of people like themselves. More than half say the policies of the administration favor the poor, and 25 percent think that the administration favors blacks over whites — compared with 11 percent of the general public.

They are more likely than the general public, and Republicans, to say that too much has been made of the problems facing black people.

Asked what they are angry about, Tea Party supporters offered three main concerns: the recent health care overhaul, government spending and a feeling that their opinions are not represented in Washington.

“The only way they will stop the spending is to have a revolt on their hands,” Elwin Thrasher, a 66-year-old semiretired lawyer in Florida, said in an interview after the poll. “I’m sick and tired of them wasting money and doing what our founders never intended to be done with the federal government.”

They are far more pessimistic than Americans in general about the economy. More than 90 percent of Tea Party supporters think the country is headed in the wrong direction, compared with about 60 percent of the general public. About 6 in 10 say “America’s best years are behind us” when it comes to the availability of good jobs for American workers.

Nearly 9 in 10 disapprove of the job Mr. Obama is doing over all, and about the same percentage fault his handling of major issues: health care, the economy and the federal budget deficit. Ninety-two percent believe Mr. Obama is moving the country toward socialism, an opinion shared by more than half of the general public.

“I just feel he’s getting away from what America is,” said Kathy Mayhugh, 67, a retired medical transcriber in Jacksonville. “He’s a socialist. And to tell you the truth, I think he’s a Muslim and trying to head us in that direction, I don’t care what he says. He’s been in office over a year and can’t find a church to go to. That doesn’t say much for him.”

The nationwide telephone poll was conducted April 5 through April 12 with 1,580 adults. For the purposes of analysis, Tea Party supporters were oversampled, for a total of 881, and then weighted to their proper proportion in the poll. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points for all adults and for Tea Party supporters.

Of the 18 percent of Americans who identified themselves as supporters, 20 percent, or 4 percent of the general public, said they had given money or attended a Tea Party event, or both. These activists were more likely than supporters generally to describe themselves as very conservative and had more negative views about the economy and Mr. Obama. They were more angry with Washington and intense in their desires for a smaller federal government and deficit.

Tea Party supporters over all are more likely than the general public to say their personal financial situation is fairly good or very good. But 55 percent are concerned that someone in their household will be out of a job in the next year. And more than two-thirds say the recession has been difficult or caused hardship and major life changes. Like most Americans, they think the most pressing problems facing the country today are the economy and jobs.

But while most Americans blame the Bush administration or Wall Street for the current state of the American economy, the greatest number of Tea Party supporters blame Congress.

They do not want a third party and say they usually or almost always vote Republican. The percentage holding a favorable opinion of former President George W. Bush, at 57 percent, almost exactly matches the percentage in the general public that holds an unfavorable view of him.

Dee Close, a 47-year-old homemaker in Memphis, said she was worried about a “drift” in the country. “Over the last three or four years, I’ve realized how immense that drift has been away from what made this country great,” Ms. Close said.

Yet while the Tea Party supporters are more conservative than Republicans on some social issues, they do not want to focus on those issues: about 8 in 10 say that they are more concerned with economic issues, as is the general public.

When talking about the Tea Party movement, the largest number of respondents said that the movement’s goal should be reducing the size of government, more than cutting the budget deficit or lowering taxes.

And nearly three-quarters of those who favor smaller government said they would prefer it even if it meant spending on domestic programs would be cut.

But in follow-up interviews, Tea Party supporters said they did not want to cut Medicare or Social Security — the biggest domestic programs, suggesting instead a focus on “waste.”

Some defended being on Social Security while fighting big government by saying that since they had paid into the system, they deserved the benefits.

Others could not explain the contradiction.

“That’s a conundrum, isn’t it?” asked Jodine White, 62, of Rocklin, Calif. “I don’t know what to say. Maybe I don’t want smaller government. I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security.” She added, “I didn’t look at it from the perspective of losing things I need. I think I’ve changed my mind.”

It figures the NYT would run with this. For the folks at the NY Times, the only thing that you can call someone that is worse than "racist" is "rich, white and Republican"

The Times will not rest until they have thrown ever smear they can think of at the "tea baggers"

[jbuck919]

I saw it. I just don't like to appear to give the other side grist for its mill.

I've been told that by highlighting some of the massive problems that disproportionately take place within the African-American community in this country, as I have on here a number of times in recent months and years, that I give ammunition to racists. My response is that there are worse things than giving ammunition to close-minded haters who are going to exist whether we walk on egg-shells on their behalf or not (in my case, I think failing to openly and head-on address the problems that are causing the most harm to the black community will have worse consequences than giving ammunition to racists).

That's not quite the same thing, Barry. You are posting informatively on an issue of importance to you in a way that (so you say) some allege, probably unfairly, incidentally and unintentionally endorses a cause you do not agree with. With the Times article I would have been doing my opponents in political philosophy a favor when they can find their own material that they think might put their views in a better light. Corlyss is fond of claiming that conservative Republicans are better educated, backing it up with references; she probably would have found this or the equivalent somewhere and posted it herself.

[jbuck919]

The Times will not rest until they have thrown ever smear they can think of at the "tea baggers"

Do tell us which of the poll results shows tea party folk having an opinion or characteristic you do not share.

[HoustonDavid]

The Times will not rest until they have thrown ever smear they can think of at the "tea baggers"

Jack, I swear, if The New York Times ran an article on a conservative movement, that proved
they were correct in everything they said, did, and postered, you would find fault because it
came from "that source", the evil one.

BTW, it is not necessary to "quote" an entire piece. If you would simply highlight the portion you
wish to quote with your mouse and click on "quote" you won't have to repost very long pieces
from other members.

[JackC]

The Times will not rest until they have thrown ever smear they can think of at the "tea baggers"

Jack, I swear, if The New York Times ran an article on a conservative movement, that proved
they were correct in everything they said, did, and postered, you would find fault because it
came from "that source", the evil one.

BTW, it is not necessary to "quote" an entire piece. If you would simply highlight the portion you
wish to quote with your mouse and click on "quote" you won't have to repost very long pieces
from other members.

I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry my post upset you. And thanks for the tip on qouting an entire piece. I mean it is really valuable, really, it is, really. I've been here for years and I don't think any other poster has ever made it before!!! Keep up the good work!!!

And in the future, I will strive mightily to make this BB all that you think it should be.

[HoustonDavid]

I always thought BB referred to "Bed and Breakfast".

[RebLem]

I always thought BB referred to "Bed and Breakfast".

Its an old fashioned, mostly archaic term, which means Bulletin Board, once commonly used to refer to online communities such as this.

[HoustonDavid]

Thanks Rob, I honestly had forgotten that term. Haven't seen it in years, and I certainly
didn't recognize the abreviation. And you didn't even use Jack's sarcasm to enlighten me!!

[Teresa B]

This will be my last post on this thread, as I am accused of wrongly generalizing, not listening to those who really know, blahblahblah. Well, I suppose conversely, I am not taken seriously when I have a very real concern. The ridiculous twisting of logic here in order to hang any fault for tea party racism on liberals or democrats calling "wolf" or planting instigators has become too repugnant. As for the poll, one could argue that the fact that Tea Party sympathizers are overall better educated and wealthier than average can imply this: If they are doing well and are OK with their particular situation as far as taxes, etc, what is it that they are so angry about?

Bye,
Teresa

[Barry]

This will be my last post on this thread, as I am accused of wrongly generalizing, not listening to those who really know, blahblahblah. Well, I suppose conversely, I am not taken seriously when I have a very real concern. The ridiculous twisting of logic here in order to hang any fault for tea party racism on liberals or democrats calling "wolf" or planting instigators has become too repugnant. As for the poll, one could argue that the fact that Tea Party sympathizers are overall better educated and wealthier than average can imply this: If they are doing well and are OK with their particular situation as far as taxes, etc, what is it that they are so angry about?

Bye,
Teresa

Funny how I repeatedly have seen liberals try to label anti-Democratic/Obama protesters as bigots by attempting to point out that they have no reason to be upset with Obama's policies. It's as if they can't understand how anyone can disagree with them or think what the President and the Democrats in Congress are trying to do is wrong.

All I can say to that is, grow up. The right to peacefully assemble and air grievances with the government isn't limited to people you agree with. Even in the most lopsided Presidential elections, the winner usually gets under 60 percent of the vote. There has probably never been a policy in this country that wasn't opposed by millions of people. Are we to believe they always had some kind of sinister, ulterior motives for their opposition? You've got no lock on wisdom and the people who oppose the Democrats' policies that you think are so much common sense have valid reasons for doing so in most cases, just as you undoubtedly think you did for opposing virtually everything that came from the Bush White House.

[JackC]

This will be my last post on this thread, as I am accused of wrongly generalizing, not listening to those who really know, blahblahblah. Well, I suppose conversely, I am not taken seriously when I have a very real concern. The ridiculous twisting of logic here in order to hang any fault for tea party racism on liberals or democrats calling "wolf" or planting instigators has become too repugnant. As for the poll, one could argue that the fact that Tea Party sympathizers are overall better educated and wealthier than average can imply this: If they are doing well and are OK with their particular situation as far as taxes, etc, what is it that they are so angry about?

Bye,
Teresa

Of course you are "concerned".

The reason why I, and probably some others, don't take your "concern" seriously is that your "concern" arises out of and is grounded in a well organized effort by some to tar an entire group of people who strenuously strenuously Obama's policies as racist. But using this type of PC to try to shut people up who have very and real and legitimate concerns about the direction that this country is headed in isn't working anymore. Get used to it, because it's going to get a LOT worse.

[RebLem]

This will be my last post on this thread, as I am accused of wrongly generalizing, not listening to those who really know, blahblahblah. Well, I suppose conversely, I am not taken seriously when I have a very real concern. The ridiculous twisting of logic here in order to hang any fault for tea party racism on liberals or democrats calling "wolf" or planting instigators has become too repugnant. As for the poll, one could argue that the fact that Tea Party sympathizers are overall better educated and wealthier than average can imply this: If they are doing well and are OK with their particular situation as far as taxes, etc, what is it that they are so angry about?
Bye, Teresa

Of course you are "concerned".

The reason why I, and probably some others, don't take your "concern" seriously is that your "concern" arises out of and is grounded in a well organized effort by some to tar an entire group of people who strenuously strenuously Obama's policies as racist. But using this type of PC to try to shut people up who have very and real and legitimate concerns about the direction that this country is headed in isn't working anymore. Get used to it, because it's going to get a LOT worse.

Tell me, Jack, is it your position that I shouldn't have started this thread? t\That people who report on the obvious racism of some prominent public figures, who are candidates for public office, are doing the public a disservice with such reporting?

[JackC]

This will be my last post on this thread, as I am accused of wrongly generalizing, not listening to those who really know, blahblahblah. Well, I suppose conversely, I am not taken seriously when I have a very real concern. The ridiculous twisting of logic here in order to hang any fault for tea party racism on liberals or democrats calling "wolf" or planting instigators has become too repugnant. As for the poll, one could argue that the fact that Tea Party sympathizers are overall better educated and wealthier than average can imply this: If they are doing well and are OK with their particular situation as far as taxes, etc, what is it that they are so angry about?
Bye, Teresa

Of course you are "concerned".

The reason why I, and probably some others, don't take your "concern" seriously is that your "concern" arises out of and is grounded in a well organized effort by some to tar an entire group of people who strenuously strenuously Obama's policies as racist. But using this type of PC to try to shut people up who have very and real and legitimate concerns about the direction that this country is headed in isn't working anymore. Get used to it, because it's going to get a LOT worse.

Tell me, Jack, is it your position that I shouldn't have started this thread? t\That people who report on the obvious racism of some prominent public figures, who are candidates for public office, are doing the public a disservice with such reporting?

You're doing a great public service, very civic minded and noble of you indeed. Keep it up!

(And my "position" is that people can start whatever kind of threads they want. You'll just have to live with the fact that people might post things that you don't like on them.)

[Cyril Ignatius]

The vast majority of the bigotry today comes from your side Teresa. The media may ignore this bigotry while periodically smearing the larger Tea Party movement, but anyone who investigates the movement and its critics will find the same thing. The secular progressive elite is scared *&^ of the Tea Party movement, and they are pulling out all their guns to try to try to destroy the movement.

I wonder when conservatives who keep defending teabaggers will finally notice that the so-called leaders are racists? Oh well, my fervent hope is that the Tea Party runs Sarah Palin in 2012.

Teresa

[RebLem]

The vast majority of the bigotry today comes from your side Teresa. The media may ignore this bigotry while periodically smearing the larger Tea Party movement, but anyone who investigates the movement and its critics will find the same thing. The secular progressive elite is scared *&^ of the Tea Party movement, and they are pulling out all their guns to try to try to destroy the movement.

I wonder when conservatives who keep defending teabaggers will finally notice that the so-called leaders are racists? Oh well, my fervent hope is that the Tea Party runs Sarah Palin in 2012. Teresa

Cyril, you have trouble accepting responsibility for the people you choose as leaders. Your statement would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic and irresponsible, and so revelatory of a pathological lack of any sense of responsibility.

[JackC]

Cyril, you have trouble accepting responsibility for the people you choose as leaders. Your statement would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic and irresponsible, and so revelatory of a pathological lack of any sense of responsibility.

"You choose as leaders"

See - the insult now moves from being directed against an entire movement to "you" personally.

Reblem - maybe you could extend the "public service" you are performing by pointing some racist/fruitcake statements made by people in the Obama administration and the Democratic party. We all know those would concern you deeply.

[Barry]

Sorry to pound home on the same theme over and over, but were the rank and file anti-war protesters responsible for choosing the violent and/or Communist leaders of their movement? Was the movement invalid because there were radicals with connections in high places near the top of it?

Is a peaceful protester with valid concerns in Pennsylvania (or any of the other states) in any way responsible for who runs for governor of New York?

By the way, it was reported that there was another tea party on Independence Mall over the weekend. No problems at all. I'm sure liberals wouldn't be thrilled with some of the calls for cracking down on illegal immigration, but it hardly makes one a dangerous radical.

[RebLem]

Cyril, you have trouble accepting responsibility for the people you choose as leaders. Your statement would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic and irresponsible, and so revelatory of a pathological lack of any sense of responsibility.

"You choose as leaders"

See - the insult now moves from being directed against an entire movement to "you" personally.

Reblem - maybe you could extend the "public service" you are performing by pointing some racist/fruitcake statements made by people in the Obama administration and the Democratic party. We all know those would concern you deeply.

I know of no racist statements made by members of the Obama Administration.

As for fruitcake statements by some of his supporters, Congresswoman Dianne Watson, who came back from Cuba and said that Castro had been "chosen" as the leader of the country after the success of the revolution and that the choice had involved a search for a leader strikes me as an excellent example of primo anti-historical fruitcakery. I have said as much before.

And the condemnation of the antics of Rep. Eric Massa has been quite bipartisan. Such is not the case with Mr. Paladino. He had been condemned by a few RWers here in a pro forma way, before they then move on to blame those who are complaining about his behavior as having commited greater sins in bringing his to light. There is no moral system in the world of any religion or system of ethical thought which says that is right or just.

One other thing that really irritates me is this: we Democrats are constantly self-critical, or more precisely, critical of each other, seeking to improve our moral stance. Your position, apparently, is, "As a matter of principle, we are not going to lift a finger to let racist and sexist leaders of our movement know that their behavior is unacceptable, or do anything to get them to change it, until Democrats have achieved absolute and total perfection. We will formally condemn them when Democrats are around, but in private meetings with just one another, nothing doing."

Grow up.

[JackC]

One other thing that really irritates me is this: we Democrats are constantly self-critical, or more precisely, critical of each other, seeking to improve our moral stance. Your position, apparently, is, "As a matter of principle, we are not going to lift a finger to let racist and sexist leaders of our movement know that their behavior is unacceptable, or do anything to get them to change it, until Democrats have achieved absolute and total perfection. We will formally condemn them when Democrats are around, but in private meetings with just one another, nothing doing."

Grow up.

Anyone who could post such nonsense is beyond growing up. You're just a bigot, plain and simple, but as Woody Allen said, for the Left!

[RebLem]

One other thing that really irritates me is this: we Democrats are constantly self-critical, or more precisely, critical of each other, seeking to improve our moral stance. Your position, apparently, is, "As a matter of principle, we are not going to lift a finger to let racist and sexist leaders of our movement know that their behavior is unacceptable, or do anything to get them to change it, until Democrats have achieved absolute and total perfection. We will formally condemn them when Democrats are around, but in private meetings with just one another, nothing doing."

Grow up.

Anyone who could post such nonsense is beyond growing up. You're just a bigot, plain and simple, but as Woody Allen said, for the Left!

Yes, I suspect you think anyone who thinks its morally wrong to circulate videos of women having sex with horses is just a bigot, pure and simple. the fact that you won't condemn that, the fact that you accept this slimeball vermin as a leader of your movement, the fact that you accept a man who circulates videos of African tribesman doing tribal dances as "Obama Inauguration Rehearsals" before had any sort of political record as president shows that you are not a bigot, just an upstanding white, oh, ever so white, citizen.

[JackC]

Yes, I suspect you think anyone who thinks its morally wrong to circulate videos of women having sex with horses is just a bigot, pure and simple. the fact that you won't condemn that, the fact that you accept this slimeball vermin as a leader of your movement, the fact that you accept a man who circulates videos of African tribesman doing tribal dances as "Obama Inauguration Rehearsals" before had any sort of political record as president shows that you are not a bigot, just an upstanding white, oh, ever so white, citizen.

Oh try to get control of yourself.



Hey here's a new Galluop poll that says 46% of the country thinks Obama deserves reelection, while 50% does not.

http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com ... eelection/

I guess half the country has fallen under the evil spell of their racist leaders.

[Cyril Ignatius]

The vast majority of the bigotry today comes from your side Teresa. The media may ignore this bigotry while periodically smearing the larger Tea Party movement, but anyone who investigates the movement and its critics will find the same thing. The secular progressive elite is scared *&^ of the Tea Party movement, and they are pulling out all their guns to try to try to destroy the movement.

I wonder when conservatives who keep defending teabaggers will finally notice that the so-called leaders are racists? Oh well, my fervent hope is that the Tea Party runs Sarah Palin in 2012. Teresa

Cyril, you have trouble accepting responsibility for the people you choose as leaders. Your statement would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic and irresponsible, and so revelatory of a pathological lack of any sense of responsibility.

And exactly WHO are these people you claim I chose as my leader?????? Who do you want me to take responsibility for?

[DavidRoss]

It's just terribly sad that these people who probably really do want to be good and kind and noble souls in their hearts are so horribly blind to the glaringly obvious fact that they are just as horribly bigoted toward people who don't share their ideology as any of the nasty racists whose bigotry they do see. And it's also sad that when they get called on it, instead of pausing to examine their own behavior, they lash out defensively:

"I'm no bigot--anyone who agrees with the tea partiers really is a racist" is just like "I'm no bigot--green people really are shiftless parasites who smell bad and never brush their teeth!" is just like "I'm no bigot--anyone who doesn't agree that Bush is a Nazi really is a conscienceless right-winger who hates poor people and wants to deprive them of health care!" is just like "I'm no bigot--blonde women really are dumb!" It's painfully obvious, but they're so caught up in the intoxicating elixir of self-righteous hatred that they cannot see it. They're like alcoholics whose destructive out-of-control drinking is apparent to everyone but themselves.

Rather than being angry with them, I think all we can do is persist in trying to help them to see it, for until they do they will remain slaves to their own unexamined bigotry and their harsh judgment of others based on hateful stereotypes that prevent them from experiencing empathy for people different from themselves.

[RebLem]

It's just terribly sad that these people who probably really do want to be good and kind and noble souls in their hearts are so horribly blind to the glaringly obvious fact that they are just as horribly bigoted toward people who don't share their ideology as any of the nasty racists whose bigotry they do see. And it's also sad that when they get called on it, instead of pausing to examine their own behavior, they lash out defensively:

"I'm no bigot--anyone who agrees with the tea partiers really is a racist" is just like "I'm no bigot--green people really are shiftless parasites who smell bad and never brush their teeth!" is just like "I'm no bigot--anyone who doesn't agree that Bush is a Nazi really is a conscienceless right-winger who hates poor people and wants to deprive them of health care!" is just like "I'm no bigot--blonde women really are dumb!" It's painfully obvious, but they're so caught up in the intoxicating elixir of self-righteous hatred that they cannot see it. They're like alcoholics whose destructive out-of-control drinking is apparent to everyone but themselves.

Rather than being angry with them, I think all we can do is persist in trying to help them to see it, for until they do they will remain slaves to their own unexamined bigotry and their harsh judgment of others based on hateful stereotypes that prevent them from experiencing empathy for people different from themselves.

Virtually anyone who disagrees with you about anything, even the historical context of Ravel's La Valse http://www.classicalmusicguide.com/view ... se#p183619 ,
is someone you consider a bigot or at least horribly wrong headed, David, and your promiscuous use of the word had devalued it when it comes from your keyboard. And one more thing, David. I have said things here many times I felt morally compelled to apologize for, as suggested by the first quote in your signature. When was the last time you followed the advice in that maxim in this forum?

[DavidRoss]

It's just terribly sad that these people who probably really do want to be good and kind and noble souls in their hearts are so horribly blind to the glaringly obvious fact that they are just as horribly bigoted toward people who don't share their ideology as any of the nasty racists whose bigotry they do see. And it's also sad that when they get called on it, instead of pausing to examine their own behavior, they lash out defensively:

"I'm no bigot--anyone who agrees with the tea partiers really is a racist" is just like "I'm no bigot--green people really are shiftless parasites who smell bad and never brush their teeth!" is just like "I'm no bigot--anyone who doesn't agree that Bush is a Nazi really is a conscienceless right-winger who hates poor people and wants to deprive them of health care!" is just like "I'm no bigot--blonde women really are dumb!" It's painfully obvious, but they're so caught up in the intoxicating elixir of self-righteous hatred that they cannot see it. They're like alcoholics whose destructive out-of-control drinking is apparent to everyone but themselves.

Rather than being angry with them, I think all we can do is persist in trying to help them to see it, for until they do they will remain slaves to their own unexamined bigotry and their harsh judgment of others based on hateful stereotypes that prevent them from experiencing empathy for people different from themselves.

Virtually anyone who disagrees with you about anything, even the historical context of Ravel's La Valse http://www.classicalmusicguide.com/view ... se#p183619 , is someone you consider a bigot or at least horribly wrong headed, David, and your promiscuous use of the word had devalued it when it comes from your keyboard. And one more thing, David. I have said things here many times I felt morally compelled to apologize for, as suggested by the first quote in your signature. When was the last time you followed the advice in that maxim in this forum?

Case in point, from one of the most egregious offenders on this site, whose self-serving, reality-distorting blindness is apparent to everyone who regularly traverses this forum except for himself and the handful of others who share his affliction.

Discrediting me in his own mind by claiming that "virtually anyone who disagrees with [me] about anything" gets labeled a bigot is far more palatable to his ego than facing the painful truth that I have held him to account for his viciously judgmental self-righteous bigotry on several occasions and he has never manned up enough to honestly examine his own attitudes and behavior. Instead, he lashes out in vindictive hatefulness toward the messenger, not once acknowledging his fault, apologizing for it, or making an effort to mend his ways.

How sad.

[NancyElla]

I'm going to return to the original post, which seems somehow to have gotten lost in the usual pub game of various pots calling various kettles various colors.

I didn't know anything about Carl Paladino before reading this post and the various links and articles associated with it. And I did read them. Oh, boy. And looked at the pictures. Oh, boy. So this is the defender of conservative values in New York State? In his words, "the only Republican in the race who agrees 100 percent with conservative values." Let's check this out.

As the defender of conservative values concerning sexuality, he doesn't believe in same sex marriage, but he forwards a photo of a woman copulating with a horse to his extensive email list. So bestiality isn't a problem for him (unless, of course, the couple wanted to apply for a marriage license, which I presume he would oppose). Oh, and he's fathered a child out of wedlock with an employee with whom he had an extramarital affair. Would this resume satisfy the social conservatives you know? It sure doesn't fly with the ones I know.

He isn't racist, but he forwarded a photo of an airplane landing directly behind a group of black men, with a caption: "Holy Sh*t. run ni**ers, run!" Can you think of showing this photo around your place or work, study, or worship, all in good fun, of course, and not being accused of racism? Would you show it to your African American friends to share a good laugh? Not in my world.

Does he regret sending these (and other) choice emails around? Not so's you'd notice. He's just unhappy that, as a statement from his campaign put it, a "liberal Democrat blog smear" is choosing to make such a big deal of his taste in humor. If he really believes that these emails aren't evidence of racism and sexism, or that it doesn't matter in America if a candidate is racist and sexist, then he's just too darn stupid to be governor of a state.

And he's very concerned about high taxes, and health care, and the state of the education system--so much that he's willing to spend $10 million of his own fortune to be elected Governor of New York so he can fix things for the common people. Well, if you believe that his motivation is the concern of the regular guy, I've got some derivatives you might want to add to your portfolio.

Here's my assessment: Carl Paladino is a rich, racist misogynist who wants to buy all the power he can to make the world safe for rich, racist misogynists. My opinion of any party or group that supports him for office will take into consideration who they are choosing to put forward as a leader.

[DavidRoss]

I'm going to return to the original post, which seems somehow to have gotten lost in the usual pub game of various pots calling various kettles various colors.

I didn't know anything about Carl Paladino before reading this post and the various links and articles associated with it. And I did read them. Oh, boy. And looked at the pictures. Oh, boy. So this is the defender of conservative values in New York State? In his words, "the only Republican in the race who agrees 100 percent with conservative values." Let's check this out.

As the defender of conservative values concerning sexuality, he doesn't believe in same sex marriage, but he forwards a photo of a woman copulating with a horse to his extensive email list. So bestiality isn't a problem for him (unless, of course, the couple wanted to apply for a marriage license, which I presume he would oppose). Oh, and he's fathered a child out of wedlock with an employee with whom he had an extramarital affair. Would this resume satisfy the social conservatives you know? It sure doesn't fly with the ones I know.

He isn't racist, but he forwarded a photo of an airplane landing directly behind a group of black men, with a caption: "Holy Sh*t. run ni**ers, run!" Can you think of showing this photo around your place or work, study, or worship, all in good fun, of course, and not being accused of racism? Would you show it to your African American friends to share a good laugh? Not in my world.

Does he regret sending these (and other) choice emails around? Not so's you'd notice. He's just unhappy that, as a statement from his campaign put it, a "liberal Democrat blog smear" is choosing to make such a big deal of his taste in humor. If he really believes that these emails aren't evidence of racism and sexism, or that it doesn't matter in America if a candidate is racist and sexist, then he's just too darn stupid to be governor of a state.

And he's very concerned about high taxes, and health care, and the state of the education system--so much that he's willing to spend $10 million of his own fortune to be elected Governor of New York so he can fix things for the common people. Well, if you believe that his motivation is the concern of the regular guy, I've got some derivatives you might want to add to your portfolio.

Here's my assessment: Carl Paladino is a rich, racist misogynist who wants to buy all the power he can to make the world safe for rich, racist misogynists. My opinion of any party or group that supports him for office will take into consideration who they are choosing to put forward as a leader.

Based on the information you've provided, it seems pretty likely that he is "a rich, racist misogynist." There's no information suggesting his motives for seeking office. I would share your opinion regarding those who would choose such a man to represent them--though as one long accustomed to political contests in which the choice boils down to the lesser of evils, I would also take into consideration his opposition. Let's see...Paladino...or Hitler? Hmmm...tough choice.

No wonder so many stay away from the polls. They're not apathetic, just sick of a system that discourages or prevents decent folks from seeking public office, and that rewards reprobates and scoundrels.

[NancyElla]

Gee, I didn't know Hitler had declared yet in the NY governor's race! Wow, that changes everything!