Obama's Jobs Speech

[Cosima___J]

I thought his speech was commendable. There were a number of ideas presented that I'm hoping our politicians in Washington will get busy on. I like the part about rebuilding our infrastructure, although that will mainly benefit construction workers, not white collar workers, in terms of providing jobs. Still it sounds like a good start.

Obama said his proposals, if I understood him correctly, will not cost any money???? Did I misunderstand that or is there an explanation? Perhaps in the long run, it won't cost much since more people being employed will increase income tax revenue and decrease unemployment benefits.

What are your thoughts?

[living_stradivarius]

Obama said his proposals, if I understood him correctly, will not cost any money???? Did I misunderstand that or is there an explanation? Perhaps in the long run, it won't cost much since more people being employed will increase income tax revenue and decrease unemployment benefits.

Yeah, he's saying infrastructure investment will pay for itself in the long run. It's the only way to spin it in a short-term centric election cycle.

[John F]

What the President said is, "Everything in this bill will be paid for. Everything." But he didn't say it wouldn't cost any money, nor that it would be paid for immediately by offsetting budget cuts. "The agreement we passed in July will cut government spending by about $1 trillion over the next 10 years. It also charges this Congress to come up with an additional $1.5 trillion in savings by Christmas. Tonight, I am asking you to increase that amount so that it covers the full cost of the American Jobs Act. And a week from Monday, I’ll be releasing a more ambitious deficit plan -- a plan that will not only cover the cost of this jobs bill, but stabilize our debt in the long run."

The full text of the speech is here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/09/us/po ... peech.html

Republican leaders have refrained so far from rejecting the proposal outright, but it's not what they say that matters but what their members do.

[keaggy220]

The plan is mostly Obama once again clinging to George W. Bush ideas. $245 billion of the $447 billion is extending Bush tax cuts - no new ideas here.... The $140 billion infrastructure "investment" are all borrowed ideas from FDR. The remaining $62 billion is mostly extending unemployment benefits - business as usual... There's nothing here that warranted such pomp and circumstance.

Frankly, I think this speech serves two purposes. Democrats were worried that they were going to look bad later this year when they most assuredly would oppose extending the George W. Bush tax cuts so they wanted some talking points of their own. And it buys time... If it passes then Obama can point at "his" plan and say, "Give my genius time to percolate." And then of course he prays each and every night for any signs of recovery so he can say, "Aha!"

If the plan gets torn to shreds by Republicans and the economy doesn't turnaround then he can blame Republicans for not accepting the invitation he extended to them to partake in his genius - "and now look at this mess of an economy we've got here..."

After the massive Keynesian failures we've had does anyone think that this will latest injection of insanity will pave the road to prosperity? That is, besides that NYT's idiot...

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people keeping more of the money they've earned, but this plan has nothing to do with job stimulus. It's just another speech full of pure politics.

[Ricordanza]

I like the part about rebuilding our infrastructure, although that will mainly benefit construction workers, not white collar workers, in terms of providing jobs.

Can't claim to be an expert on this subject, but I do know (from having served on my town's Planning Board for several years) that for every significant construction project, you need engineers, environmental specialists, estimators, and even lawyers!

[lennygoran]

I thought his speech was commendable... What are your thoughts?<

The delivery was super! I liked what I heard but await details on where the cuts will come from--I'm so glad he stuck to his guns on the wealthy like Warren Buffet paying more! Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

>Republican leaders have refrained so far from rejecting the proposal outright<

And while Perry rejected it right away he hasn't called it a Ponzi scheme yet so things are looking good! Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

>That is, besides that NYT's idiot...<

Could you explain this part of your message? Regards, Len

[keaggy220]

>That is, besides that NYT's idiot...<

Could you explain this part of your message? Regards, Len

Paul Krugman - i couldn't think of his name while I was writing the post. He's a Keynesian worshipper. I used to believe the stimulus stuff too, but now there's just way too much evidence that it doesn't work and is actually incredibly harmful.

[lennygoran]

>Paul Krugman - i couldn't think of his name while I was writing the post.<

Thanks for the identification--I'll await further details on the plan before I give it a complete thumbs-up or thumbs-down. So far the only people I've read criticizing it have been Perry and yourself--I guess there'll be others. Regards, Len

[keaggy220]

>Paul Krugman - i couldn't think of his name while I was writing the post.<

Thanks for the identification--I'll await further details on the plan before I give it a complete thumbs-up or thumbs-down. So far the only people I've read criticizing it have been Perry and yourself--I guess there'll be others. Regards, Len

Well show me where I am wrong. I really don't see anything in the plan that hasn't been tried unsuccessfully before... And it's much less ambitious than previous efforts.

[lennygoran]

>Well show me where I am wrong. I really don't see anything in the plan that hasn't been tried unsuccessfully before... And it's much less ambitious than previous efforts.<

I'd have to read the plan first, right? And on the ambition front it has to be cautious because Obama can only do so much with all the obstructionists like the Tea Party around. Anyway I believe in taking sensible smaller steps rather than moving too swiftly with a gigantic plan. Regards, Len

[keaggy220]

>Well show me where I am wrong. I really don't see anything in the plan that hasn't been tried unsuccessfully before... And it's much less ambitious than previous efforts.<

I'd have to read the plan first, right? And on the ambition front it has to be cautious because Obama can only do so much with all the obstructionists like the Tea Party around. Anyway I believe in taking sensible smaller steps rather than moving too swiftly with a gigantic plan. Regards, Len

The plan is pretty simply. I laid it out in my post. I found it on the WP website. Here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... aphic.html

Thank goodness it's less ambitious than Obama's previous efforts - we can agree on that one. We'll be paying for all these plans for generations upon generations - the shameful legacy of the baby-boomer generation...

[lennygoran]

>The plan is pretty simply. I laid it out in my post. I found it on the WP website. <

Thanks for the chart--still this is the part I want to see:

" The proposal would cost a little more than half of the 2009 stimulus package and, according to Obama, be paid for by additional deficit reduction that he will outline Sept. 19."

Regards, Len

[keaggy220]

>The plan is pretty simply. I laid it out in my post. I found it on the WP website. <

Thanks for the chart--still this is the part I want to see:

" The proposal would cost a little more than half of the 2009 stimulus package and, according to Obama, be paid for by additional deficit reduction that he will outline Sept. 19."

Regards, Len

Ahh... Part two of the epic plan... My focus is only on what's been revealed - stimulus - and it's just a regurgitation of other people's failed ideas with political motives interwoven.

[lennygoran]

>Ahh... Part two of the epic plan...<

Important though, right? BTW I'm all for fixing the infrastructure--especially around Lincoln Center in Manhattan--I don't think you realize just how bad riding north on 10th ave around John jay college just north of 57th st. is! Regards, Len [fleeing]

[Cosima___J]

I wonder how Obama's plans will mesh with the yet-to-be-released Debt Super Committee's suggestions. I don't know if you can consider one without the other.

[Steinway]

Regardless of the merits of Obama's proposals, the Republicans, by definition, will never allow these things to come to fruition.

They have proved conclusively that they will turn aside the needs of the economy and the people who most desperately need to be helped, and make certain to do nothing that makes Obama's re-election more probable.

The hypocrisy is sickening.

[keaggy220]

>Ahh... Part two of the epic plan...<

Important though, right? BTW I'm all for fixing the infrastructure--especially around Lincoln Center in Manhattan--I don't think you realize just how bad riding north on 10th ave around John jay college just north of 57th st. is! Regards, Len [fleeing]

Sure, important, but I thought we had a super-committee already working on the cutting. Did I miss something or did everyone, including Obama, after much gnashing of the teeth and temper tantrums, finally agree that this committee would be trusted to come up with a bipartisan plan? Now I'm confused. Will Obama have an independent and competing plan?

Blame your infrastructure problems on your state and keep your hands out of my pocket in Virginia. Seriously, if federal funding goes towards filling potholes in NJ - or anywhere, just because the locality was too inept to budget for infrastructure correctly then I have a problem with it.

[lennygoran]

>I have a problem with it.<

That area of NYC has our Lincoln Center and also the PBS Thirteen station is located right there--you'll have to rethink your position! Regards, Len [still running]

[keaggy220]

Regardless of the merits of Obama's proposals, the Republicans, by definition, will never allow these things to come to fruition.

They have proved conclusively that they will turn aside the needs of the economy and the people who most desperately need to be helped, and make certain to do nothing that makes Obama's re-election more probable.

The hypocrisy is sickening.

I'm glad to see you are defending the extension of the George W. Bush tax cuts with such ferocity - which makes up over half of Obama's plan. I'm sure your position is just as consistent as when Bush originally proposed the cuts.

[Steinway]

I'm glad to see you are defending the extension of the George W. Bush tax cuts with such ferocity - which makes up over half of Obama's plan. I'm sure your position is just as consistent as when Bush originally proposed the cuts."

I hardly think my comments were ferocious.

Do you think the Republican stance in the House will be as I suggested or will they show a willingness to find some meeting ground on these issues?

[lennygoran]

>I'm glad to see you are defending the extension of the George W. Bush tax cuts<

Yeah but now those millionaires are hopefully excluded! Regards, Len

[keaggy220]

I'm glad to see you are defending the extension of the George W. Bush tax cuts with such ferocity - which makes up over half of Obama's plan. I'm sure your position is just as consistent as when Bush originally proposed the cuts."

I hardly think my comments were ferocious.

Do you think the Republican stance in the House will be as I suggested or will they show a willingness to find some meeting ground on these issues?

I think the opposition for the extension of the Bush tax cuts, the largest part of Obama's plan, will come from Democrats, not Republicans. The FDR portion of Obama's plan - infrastructure improvement, makes up $145 billion - a pittance compared to past failed stimulus attempts so I really don't see this as a job stimulus plan.

[keaggy220]

>I'm glad to see you are defending the extension of the George W. Bush tax cuts<

Yeah but now those millionaires are hopefully excluded! Regards, Len

I've got to love your consistency of wanting to stick it to the productive.

[lennygoran]

>I've got to love your consistency of wanting to stick it to the productive.<



Thank you, thank you! Regards, Len

[Cosima___J]

Yes Len is consistent. Consistently complaining about churches not paying taxes and the need to tax millionaires and billionaires more. He takes those hobby horses out for a trot on a regular basis. But since he's a fellow gardener, I'm willing to overlook his repetition.

BTW Len, I just planted a bunch of daffodil and tulip bulbs. Inspite of all the gardening I've done, I've never planted bulbs. Now I'm anxious for spring, so I can see what comes up. Such a long wait. Sigh.

[lennygoran]

>BTW Len, I just planted a bunch of daffodil and tulip bulbs.<

A few seasons ago we cleared an area beyond our fence and since they are the only sure plant deer won't eat we put in 350 daffs--not tulips but daffs--the deer will decimate the tulips. We have another order coming to add another 150--what a beautiful spring show we have out there beyond the real garden. Don't forget the old trick--plant a daylily whereever you have daffs--you'll get 2 great shows--one in spring and one in summer--and you won't have to worry about how the decaying leaves on the daffs look because the day lilies will cover them up. I recommend 3 daffs in the hole for every one day lily. Regards, Len

[Cosima___J]

Len, thanks for the suggestion. I've been wondering what the daffodils would look like after the spring blooms fade. So you'll have a total of 500 daffodils!!!! Magnificent. Gee, I feel like such a slacker. I only planted 24. Some of the garden mail order catalogs that I get they talk about some of the daffodils being the type that "naturalize", i.e., increase in numbers over the years. Is that what yours do?

[lennygoran]

>Is that what yours do?<

Yes, a great bulb for sure! Prissy Martha Stewart keeps her daffodils neat by applying rubberbands to each stem as they start to deteriorate after the flowering--Sue and I cracked up! Martha, give us a break! Regards, Len

[Agnes Selby]

Here is a true and wonderful story for you Cosi and Lenny!

We had beautiful daffodils in our garden in Philadelphia. When we were
about to return home to Sydney, I could not leave without my daffodils and took
3 bulbs (illegally according to Aussie law) back with me to Sydney.
I planted the bulbs in our Sydney garden and never expected them to adjust
to our seasons here and yet they did. The following spring we had three
Philadelphia daffodils. I have not counted how many "babies" they have had
by now. We returned home in 1988. The Philadelphia daffodils are flowering
in our garden at this very moment. I have given countless bulbs to my children.
The sun is shining at them right now and they are just beautiful.

[Agnes Selby]

P.S. Sorry to have interrupted the political discussion
but seeing it will go on for more than a year, a little
diversion will do not harm!!!

[Cosima___J]

Thanks for sharing that Agnes.

Len, you might recall my mentioning that I'd planted three vanilla strawberry hydrangea? Well two of them appear to be dead!!!

[John F]

The Philadelphia daffodils are flowering
in our garden at this very moment. I have given countless bulbs to my children.
The sun is shining at them right now and they are just beautiful.

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd
Of Philadelphia daffodils...

[Agnes Selby]

The Philadelphia daffodils are flowering
in our garden at this very moment. I have given countless bulbs to my children.
The sun is shining at them right now and they are just beautiful.

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd
Of Philadelphia daffodils...

JohnF that is lovely. Where does that poem come from?
If you saw the yellow daffodils and the pink azaleas I am looking
at, you would know how apt that poem is.

[keaggy220]

Wall Street = Not impressed

[Teresa B]

The Philadelphia daffodils are flowering
in our garden at this very moment. I have given countless bulbs to my children.
The sun is shining at them right now and they are just beautiful.

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd
Of Philadelphia daffodils...

JohnF that is lovely. Where does that poem come from?
If you saw the yellow daffodils and the pink azaleas I am looking
at, you would know how apt that poem is.

Dear Agnes, I believe it's from "Daffodils", one of my favorite poems by Wordsworth! Here it is:

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.

Continuous as the stars that shine
And twinkle on the milky way,
They stretched in never-ending line
Along the margin of a bay:
Ten thousand saw I at a glance,
Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.

The waves beside them danced, but they
Out-did the sparkling leaves in glee;
A poet could not be but gay,
In such a jocund company!
I gazed—and gazed—but little thought
What wealth the show to me had brought:

For oft, when on my couch I lie
In vacant or in pensive mood,
They flash upon that inward eye
Which is the bliss of solitude;
And then my heart with pleasure fills,
And dances with the daffodils.


Teresa

P.S. Yes, your comment was a lovely diversion! As always, political discussions never end up in agreement or convergence, due to our wonderful propensity to keep finding reasons to support our pre-conceived ideas!

[Agnes Selby]

The Philadelphia daffodils are flowering
in our garden at this very moment. I have given countless bulbs to my children.
The sun is shining at them right now and they are just beautiful.

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd
Of Philadelphia daffodils...

JohnF that is lovely. Where does that poem come from?
If you saw the yellow daffodils and the pink azaleas I am looking
at, you would know how apt that poem is.

Dear Agnes, I believe it's from "Daffodils", one of my favorite poems by Wordsworth! Here it is:

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.

Continuous as the stars that shine
And twinkle on the milky way,
They stretched in never-ending line
Along the margin of a bay:
Ten thousand saw I at a glance,
Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.

The waves beside them danced, but they
Out-did the sparkling leaves in glee;
A poet could not be but gay,
In such a jocund company!
I gazed—and gazed—but little thought
What wealth the show to me had brought:

For oft, when on my couch I lie
In vacant or in pensive mood,
They flash upon that inward eye
Which is the bliss of solitude;
And then my heart with pleasure fills,
And dances with the daffodils.


Teresa

P.S. Yes, your comment was a lovely diversion! As always, political discussions never end up in agreement or convergence, due to our wonderful propensity to keep finding reasons to support our pre-conceived ideas!

Thank you, dear Teresa. I love it. It captures the mood so well.

As for your P.S. I don't know how people in America can cope with such a long
election process. It would drive me crazy.

[keaggy220]

I didn't watch the speech, but apparently it really entertained Republicans. There was a part of the speech where Obama said this isn't about class warfare which caused an eruption of laughter from Republicans. I've since watched it on YouTube and sure enough the laughter is there... In most circumstances I would say this is disrespectful, but the reality is that the statement about this not being about class warfare is such an insult to intelligence that he deserves to be laughed at...

The irrelevancy of the Obama presidency

President Obama gave one of the most impassioned speeches of his presidency when he addressed a joint session of Congress on Thursday night. Too bad so many in the audience thought it was a big, fat joke.

“You should pass this jobs plan right away!” Obama exhorted. Sens. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) chuckled.

“Warren Buffett pays a lower tax rate than his secretary — an outrage he has asked us to fix,” Obama went on. Widespread laughter broke out on the GOP side of the aisle.

“This isn’t political grandstanding,” Obama said. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) guffawed.

“This isn’t class warfare,” Obama said. More hysterics on the right.

“We’ve identified over 500 [regulatory] reforms, which will save billions of dollars,” the president claimed. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) and Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) giggled.

It was, in a way, more insulting than Joe Wilson’s “you lie” eruption during a previous presidential address to Congress. The lawmakers weren’t particularly hostile toward the president — they just regarded the increasingly unpopular Obama as irrelevant. And the inclination not to take the 43-percent president seriously wasn’t entirely limited to the Republicans.

The nation is in an unemployment crisis, and Obama was finally, belatedly, unveiling his proposals, but Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) thought this joint session of Congress would be a good time to ask Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to autograph a copy of the children’s book “House Mouse, Senate Mouse.”

Former representative David Wu (D-Wash.), forced to resign this summer over accusations of sexual impropriety, nevertheless showed up for the speech (in a business suit rather than his tiger suit) and took a seat among the Democrats.

House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and Vice President Biden set the tone at the start. Waiting for Obama to make his way down the center aisle, they stood before the House and had a talk — not about jobs, but about golf.

“Seven birdies, five bogeys,” Boehner reported to Biden.

“You’re kidding me!” the vice president said.

“I missed a four-foot, straight-on birdie on the last hole,” Boehner said of another round.

“Whoa!” the vice president said.

“So, the next day,” Boehner went on, “I shoot an 86! Ha, ha, ha!”

“That’s incredible,” the vice president said.

Boehner went on about other memorable golf moments before an aide let the men know that their microphones were live.

Obama rose to the occasion with a bold jobs proposal that delighted liberals but also had elements conservatives grudgingly endorsed. Yet long before the speech, both sides had concluded that it didn’t much matter: Obama has become too weak to enact anything big enough to do much good.

“I thought it was a great speech,” said Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.) But the odds of Obama getting his plan through Congress “are probably as good as the Nationals winning the league this year.”

Presidential addresses to Congress are often dramatic moments. This one felt like a sideshow. Usually, the press gallery is standing-room-only; this time, only 26 of 90 seats were claimed by the deadline. Usually, some members arrive in the chamber hours early to score a center-aisle seat; 90 minutes before Thursday’s speech, only one Democrat was so situated.

Republican leaders, having forced Obama to postpone the speech because of the GOP debate, decided they wouldn’t dignify the event by offering a formal, televised “response.” And the White House, well aware of Obama’s declining popularity, moved up the speech time to 7 p.m. so it didn’t conflict with the Packers-Saints NFL opener at 8:30.

Sen. David Vitter (R-La.) had planned to skip the speech to host a football party, but the Senate majority leader thwarted his plan. “Typical Harry Reid,” Vitter tweeted. “He’s now schdld votes that should’ve been this morn 4 right b4 & right AFTER prez’s speech. Pens me in 2 have 2 stay.”

Almost all Republicans ignored the calls of some within their ranks to boycott the speech. In fact, the empty seats were on the Democratic side. Democrats lumbered to their feet to give the president several standing ovations, but they struggled at times to demonstrate enthusiasm. When Obama proposed payroll tax cuts for small businesses, three Democrats stood to applaud. Summer jobs for disadvantaged youth brought six Democrats to their feet, and a tax credit for hiring the long-term unemployed produced 11 standees.

Obama spoke quickly, urgently, even angrily. Rep. Jesse Jackson (D-Ill.) stared at the ceiling. Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) scanned the gallery. Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) was seen reading a newspaper. And Republicans, when they weren’t giggling, were mostly silent.

Even a mention of Abraham Lincoln, “a Republican president who mobilized government to build the transcontinental railroad,” brought no applause from the GOP side. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) yawned. One Republican backbencher, Jeff Landry of Louisiana, chose this moment to hold up a sign demanding “Drilling = Jobs.”

So now even Lincoln doesn’t merit Republican applause when Obama invokes his name? If it weren’t so disturbing, it would be kind of funny.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... ml?hpid=z1

[Cosima___J]

Interesting to get an insiders view of what was going on during the speech. From what the TV cameras showed, the TV audience couldn't see all of that. Wonder what else we the citizens can't see?

[John F]

The Philadelphia daffodils are flowering
in our garden at this very moment. I have given countless bulbs to my children.
The sun is shining at them right now and they are just beautiful.

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd
Of Philadelphia daffodils...

JohnF that is lovely. Where does that poem come from?
If you saw the yellow daffodils and the pink azaleas I am looking
at, you would know how apt that poem is.

Teresa got it! But Wordsworth didn't know that Philadelphia daffodils are special, so I helped him out.

[John F]

Back on topic. The following story didn't surprise me, but in the light of it, maybe the President should revise his jobs program and remove the tax cuts for businesses, increasing the emphasis on rebuilding infrastructure which does directly affect employment, in the construction and related industries at least. Problem is, tax cuts for businesses may be the only part of the plan that Republican legislators might actually allow to pass.


Employers Say Jobs Plan Won’t Lead to Hiring Spur
By MOTOKO RICH
Published: September 9, 2011

The dismal state of the economy is the main reason many companies are reluctant to hire workers, and few executives are saying that President Obama’s jobs plan — while welcome — will change their minds any time soon.

That sentiment was echoed across numerous industries by executives in companies big and small on Friday, underscoring the challenge for the Obama administration as it tries to encourage hiring and perk up the moribund economy.The plan failed to generate any optimism on Wall Street as the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index and the Dow Jones industrial average each fell about 2.7 percent.

As President Obama faced an uphill battle in Congress to win support even for portions of the plan, many employers dismissed the notion that any particular tax break or incentive would be persuasive. Instead, they said they tended to hire more workers or expand when the economy improved...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/10/busin ... rence.html

And of course, the American economy isn't likely to improve much if at all until more Americans have jobs and incomes. Catch 22.

[lennygoran]

>Cosi<

Agnes, okay I'm glad we've gotten back to Mozart but it's Don G I'm concerned about, not Cosi--unless you change your view on Don G I'm reporting you to the authorities for those illegal daffs! Regards, Len [rapid retreat!]

[lennygoran]

>Well two of them appear to be dead!!!<

This is quite surprising--we've never lost an hydrangea--some don't flower as much as we'd like but to actually lose 2 out of 3--did you water the plants enough--did they need more shade? Always sorry to hear about the loss of plants. Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

>JohnF that is lovely. Where does that poem come from? <

He stole that from Wordsworth--shame on him!

http://www.bartleby.com/145/ww260.html

Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

>As always, political discussions never end up in agreement or convergence, due to our wonderful propensity to keep finding reasons to support our pre-conceived ideas!<

Sure, what did you expect with Keaggy around! Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

>I didn't watch the speech, but apparently it really entertained Republicans. <

Yes a wonderful speech always entertains me--this was a great one--quite stirring!

> “Seven birdies, five bogeys,” Boehner reported to Biden.<

So what would you have preferred--to see the guy crying? Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

>But Wordsworth didn't know that Philadelphia daffodils are special, so I helped him out. <

Yep you should see how they're used at the Philadelphia Flower Show and when that show is held the first week of March we gardeners are ready to view them! Regards, Len [hater of winter]

[keaggy220]

Back on topic. The following story didn't surprise me, but in the light of it, maybe the President should revise his jobs program and remove the tax cuts for businesses, increasing the emphasis on rebuilding infrastructure which does directly affect employment, in the construction and related industries at least. Problem is, tax cuts for businesses may be the only part of the plan that Republican legislators might actually allow to pass.


Employers Say Jobs Plan Won’t Lead to Hiring Spur
By MOTOKO RICH
Published: September 9, 2011

The dismal state of the economy is the main reason many companies are reluctant to hire workers, and few executives are saying that President Obama’s jobs plan — while welcome — will change their minds any time soon.

That sentiment was echoed across numerous industries by executives in companies big and small on Friday, underscoring the challenge for the Obama administration as it tries to encourage hiring and perk up the moribund economy.The plan failed to generate any optimism on Wall Street as the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index and the Dow Jones industrial average each fell about 2.7 percent.

As President Obama faced an uphill battle in Congress to win support even for portions of the plan, many employers dismissed the notion that any particular tax break or incentive would be persuasive. Instead, they said they tended to hire more workers or expand when the economy improved...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/10/busin ... rence.html

And of course, the American economy isn't likely to improve much if at all until more Americans have jobs and incomes. Catch 22.

Temporary tax cuts are not that beneficial for business. Most smart businesses are moving out of the United States and into less hostile countries. I believe the last industry that our government can play hardball with - and get away with it, is the energy industry - of course only because of the location of the energy. That is why we will eventually drill.

[keaggy220]

>As always, political discussions never end up in agreement or convergence, due to our wonderful propensity to keep finding reasons to support our pre-conceived ideas!<

Sure, what did you expect with Keaggy around! Regards, Len

Yes, I admit it, the Constitution was conceived before me and I have a propensity to cling to it...