Paris Shooting

[Guitarist]

[piston]

In the midst of this act of terrorism over cartoons, the France French I have heard on the news have made the interesting point that freedom of speech is absolutely sacred to them, even if it means getting placed on the terrorist alert list of the world's Muslim's barbarians. The art director of The New Yorker, Françoise Mouly, went so far as to assert that the France French cannot compromise that basic freedom as Americans have, that political correctness is more likely to be challenged in France than in the USA, because freedom of speech is fundamental and PC is not. (Which reminded me of the recent Costner comment, itself controversial, that "race overshadows the conversation itself and, therefore, distorts the narrative").

So, expect France to be a magnet for Muslim terrorist activity because the France French will never compromise on their right to speak freely, including on any narrative distortion caused by PC or by terrorist threats.

[lennygoran]

the France French cannot compromise that basic freedom as Americans have, that political correctness is more likely to be challenged in France than in the USA, because freedom of speech is fundamental and PC is not.

Still doesn't PC have its place too? Regards, Len

[John F]

the France French I have heard on the news have made the interesting point that freedom of speech is absolutely sacred to them...

But surely it is not absolutely unrestricted. I know nothing about French law, but at the very least there must be a law against libel - making malicious false statements against living persons. If not, then the French devotion to freedom of speech at all costs is not admirable, it's the law of the jungle.

And I'm afraid I blame Charlie Hebdo and its management for putting the lives of its staff at risk. Their office was firebombed 4 years ago following another mocking satire of Mohammed, and while nobody was killed, there could have been no clearer warning that the paper could expect more violence if they did it again. They did it again, in effect daring the terrorists to do their worst, and they got it.

[Chalkperson]

the France French I have heard on the news have made the interesting point that freedom of speech is absolutely sacred to them...

But surely it is not absolutely unrestricted. I know nothing about French law, but at the very least there must be a law against libel - making malicious false statements against living persons. If not, then the French devotion to freedom of speech at all costs is not admirable, it's the law of the jungle.

Where does Piston say unrestricted, he says sacred. Surely they do not mean the same thing.

The French have very strict libel and defamation laws. So they must therefore accept them as a fact of life.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... rench-laws

Libel is a basic law, to protect people in other civilized Countries from ending up with a situation like the farcical one in America that allows publications like the National Enquirer and others to publish outright lies.

As for PC it's another thing America takes to extremes.

[Chalkperson]

And I'm afraid I blame Charlie Hebdo and its management for putting the lives of its staff at risk. Their office was firebombed 4 years ago following another mocking satire of Mohammed, and while nobody was killed, there could have been no clearer warning that the paper could expect more violence if they did it again. They did it again, in effect daring the terrorists to do their worst, and they got it.

They stand by their actions, the Editor had Police protection, he was killed in the same incident.

France has a history of anti Semitic violence, this was the Terrorists taking advantage of a situation to get the maximum effect. They would simply have struck elsewhere if they had not chosen Charlie Hebdo. The second attack was on a Kosher Supermarket, not one run by people of another religion.

I think this is just the beginning, France will likely become the center of Al Quaeda attacks for quite some time.

Don't forget Algeria, 1.5 million slaughtered by the French. Muslim terrorists have long memories.

[John F]

the France French I have heard on the news have made the interesting point that freedom of speech is absolutely sacred to them...

But surely it is not absolutely unrestricted. I know nothing about French law, but at the very least there must be a law against libel - making malicious false statements against living persons. If not, then the French devotion to freedom of speech at all costs is not admirable, it's the law of the jungle.

Where does Piston say unrestricted, he says sacred. Surely they do not mean the same thing.

Where do I say he did?

The French have very strict libel and defamation laws. So they must therefore accept them as a fact of life.

I'm glad to hear it.

They stand by their actions, the Editor had Police protection, he was killed in the same incident.

So he isn't alive to tell us whether he believes his stand was worth the loss of his people's lives, including his own. I don't suppose many of the survivors take that line either, but maybe they do.

[Modernistfan]

"Je suis Charlie," but "Ou est Obama?" It was an absolute disgrace that Obama was not in Paris. He seems extraordinarily reluctant to attack Islamic terrorism as such, dancing around it and equivocating about it. Of course, obviously, it is true that only a small fraction of Muslims are terrorists, and there are plenty of terrorists who are not Muslims, but this has to be faced directly for once. I hope that Obama is not one of those relativists who believes that there is no reason to defend Western civilization and no reason to hold up the virtues of Western civilization in contrast to other civilizations or value systems.

[piston]

The French government has been trying to regulate free speech, no doubt about it. But my point is that French citizens are not going to take it and Carbonnier is a fine example of that point:

“I would rather die standing than live on my knees.”

Free speech is disruptive and people like Brigitte Bardot, who claims that both Muslims and Jews are destroying France and its values, are doing just that, disrupting national order. Yet, whereas in the USA free speech matters are fought over such things as pornography, in France, they've been fought over religious fundamentalism and its propensity to respond with violence to criticism.

It's life-threatening to criticize Muslim fundamentalism ("I will behead you"); it's legally threatening to criticize Jewish fundamentalism ("I will make your life a nightmare"); it's easily self-ostracizing to criticize racial nativism (including culturally embedded racial hatred).

Isn't there a common denominator behind all of these tribal values? I think so. It's called "US vs. THEM."

[absinthe]

the France French I have heard on the news have made the interesting point that freedom of speech is absolutely sacred to them...

But surely it is not absolutely unrestricted. I know nothing about French law, but at the very least there must be a law against libel - making malicious false statements against living persons. If not, then the French devotion to freedom of speech at all costs is not admirable, it's the law of the jungle.

And I'm afraid I blame Charlie Hebdo and its management for putting the lives of its staff at risk. Their office was firebombed 4 years ago following another mocking satire of Mohammed, and while nobody was killed, there could have been no clearer warning that the paper could expect more violence if they did it again. They did it again, in effect daring the terrorists to do their worst, and they got it.

Looking at events in France, Germany, Holland and the UK; and relating them to extremism in Africa and the Middle East, I begin to scent a growing incitement to civil war. For better or worse these miscreants work from the same holy book as those who call themselves "moderate" Muslims. There is a continuum. There is an emotional draw...these extremists calling on all Muslims to support their prophet.

Is it imaginable that any Muslim would refuse to defend their religious lore, the prophet?

[Auntie Lynn]

About that shooting in Paris...pirated from the Politics forum...
*****
Warning: The first sentence is going to require the suspension of disbelief.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Having arrived at the Gates of Heaven, Barack Obama meets a man with a beard.

'Are you Mohammed?' he asks.
'No my son, I am St. Peter; Mohammed is higher up.' Peter then points to a ladder that
rises into the clouds.

Delighted that Mohamed should be higher than St. Peter, Obama climbs the ladder in great
strides, climbs up through the clouds and comes into a room where he meets another
bearded man.

He asks again, 'Are you Mohammed?'
'Why no,' he answers, 'I am Moses; Mohammed is higher still.'

Exhausted, but with a heart full of joy he climbs the ladder yet again.

He discovers a larger room where he meets an angelic looking man
with a beard. Full of hope, he asks again, 'Are you Mohamed?'

'No, I am Jesus, the Christ; you will find Mohammed higher up.'

Mohammed higher than Jesus!
Man, oh man! Obama can hardly contain his delight and climbs and climbs ever higher.

Once again, he reaches an even larger room where he meets this truly magnificent looking
man with a silver white beard and once again repeats his question:

'Are you Mohammed?' he gasps as he is by now, totally out of breath from all his climbing.

'No, my son, I am Almighty God, the Alpha and the Omega, but you look exhausted.
Would you like a cup of coffee?'

Obama says, 'Yes please!'
God looks behind him, claps his hands and yells out: 'Hey, Mohammed, two coffees!'

***** If you don’t like that...*****

Knock, knock.
"Who's there?"
"The Prophet Muhammad."
"The Prophet Muhammad who?"
*BOOM*

*****Then, there’s this...*****
A Russian, a Cuban, an Englishman and a Pakistani are on a train.

The Russian takes out a bottle of his best vodka, drinks a bit and throws the rest off the
train and says, "There's plenty more of that where I come from."

Everyone is impressed. The Cuban takes out one of the finest Havana cigars, takes one
puff and throws it off the train and says, "There's plenty more of those where I come
from."

Again everyone is rather impressed. So the Englishman stands up and throws the Pakistani
off the train.

*****Last but not least*****

Q. How do Muslims practice safe sex?
A. They mark the camels that kick.
*****
What do you get when you cross muhammed with a pig?
Nothing, 'cause there are some things even a pig won't do.
*****
Now, at this point, you-know-who usually jumps in blaming the whole ugly mess on the
Catholic Church, the pope, the cardinals, the priests, the saints and angels, the liturgy, the
Knights of Columbus, the Altar Society, the altar boys, the choir, George Bush, Fox
News, every catholic who ever lived, etc. etc.

The Church Militant: “Thou are Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church and the
gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” So save your puffnstuff...

Ah, wurra the day...when are these countries going to stop letting these crazy, wild-eyed
loonies in...??

Now watch this thread take off!!

BTW, Happy New Year, how do you like it so far...??

[Chalkperson]

They stand by their actions, the Editor had Police protection, he was killed in the same incident.

So he isn't alive to tell us whether he believes his stand was worth the loss of his people's lives, including his own. I don't suppose many of the survivors take that line either, but maybe they do.

Sorry, obviously not carefully written enough for you to understand my meaning.

The Policeman guarding the Editor was killed in the attack, it's obvious the Editor was killed.

[Chalkperson]

BTW, Happy New Year, how do you like it so far...??

I liked it a lot more before you showed up with a distasteful and disrespectful post about Muslims.

Go get a life.

[Chalkperson]

the France French I have heard on the news have made the interesting point that freedom of speech is absolutely sacred to them...

But surely it is not absolutely unrestricted. I know nothing about French law, but at the very least there must be a law against libel - making malicious false statements against living persons. If not, then the French devotion to freedom of speech at all costs is not admirable, it's the law of the jungle.

And I'm afraid I blame Charlie Hebdo and its management for putting the lives of its staff at risk. Their office was firebombed 4 years ago following another mocking satire of Mohammed, and while nobody was killed, there could have been no clearer warning that the paper could expect more violence if they did it again. They did it again, in effect daring the terrorists to do their worst, and they got it.

Looking at events in France, Germany, Holland and the UK; and relating them to extremism in Africa and the Middle East, I begin to scent a growing incitement to civil war. For better or worse these miscreants work from the same holy book as those who call themselves "moderate" Muslims. There is a continuum. There is an emotional draw...these extremists calling on all Muslims to support their prophet.

Is it imaginable that any Muslim would refuse to defend their religious lore, the prophet?

I have quite a few Muslim friends, and one is very moderate and lives in Bradford, he's suddenly got very agitated and upset, he was calm chap, now he's very different.