More Despicable Trump Behavior

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lennygoran
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More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:51 pm


jbuck919
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:29 pm

One of my teaching colleagues in Maryland came from Jersey City and watched those towers go up. People much younger than Lenny and myself don't realize what a short span of time there was between their erection and their destruction. It is as though my mother, who knew Manhattan well as a young woman, had to witness the destruction of the Empire State Building almost before I was born.

Trump is not going to be the Republican candidate, nor is Ben Carson. The Republican establishment will not stand for a loose canon, and they will eventually find a way to call the shots to make sure that the next Republican candidate is someone more like the pliable good-old-boy Mitt Romney. That will be quite bad enough.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

lennygoran
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:51 pm

jbuck919 wrote: Trump is not going to be the Republican candidate, nor is Ben Carson.
Gee I sure hope you're right-do you see any way someone can stop him-looks like a winner in Iowa, is doing well in NH-what's the road to stopping him? Regards, Len :(

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lennygoran
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:56 pm

And South Carolina. Regards, Len :(

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:06 am

I also would not be surprised if the Republicans simply throw the presidential race knowing that they still control the country (or at least put the brakes on progress and protect the super-rrich) through the other two branches of government. I used to predict Jeb Bush as the GOP candidate because he did such a good job of lying about the real Republican agenda, but it appears that what is left of democracy in the primary system had proved me wrong about that.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... oel-gehrke

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-- Johann Sebastian Bach

John F
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by John F » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:49 am

jbuck919 wrote:Trump is not going to be the Republican candidate, nor is Ben Carson. The Republican establishment will not stand for a loose canon, and they will eventually find a way to call the shots to make sure that the next Republican candidate is someone more like the pliable good-old-boy Mitt Romney. That will be quite bad enough.
I wonder what the "Republican establishment" is nowadays. It's certainly not the Republican National Committee; nobody pays attention to them any more. I suppose it's the big bucks PACs and super PACs who can keep their bought candidates in the race even if nobody is voting for them. Trump doesn't need a PAC - his personal net worth of $4.5 billion allows him to outspend any other candidate if nobody gives him a nickel.

To me, this says that everybody with financing on this scale is likely to stay in the race until actually defeated in the primaries, obviously including Trump but possibly not Carson who has no PACs and depends entirely on his campaign's fundraising. If so, then it isn't the Republican establishment, whatever that is, but the most motivated Republican primary voters, as manipulated by political ads paid for by the PACs, who will determine who the nominee finally is.

No doubt it isn't as simple as that, and in fact nobody has any idea how this extraordinary melée is going to turn out. If somebody offered me a bet, no matter what, I wouldn't take it.
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Sapphire
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by Sapphire » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:29 am

I did not intend to return to this discussion but I feel compelled to reply to the suggestion above that the USA alliance, in its bombing raids over Syria, has been more of a serious threat to ISIL than the Russians appear to pose.

I was not simply counting the number of bombs dropped, or the number of sorties, as some people seem so naively feel content with. On this crude reckoning, the USA alliance is no doubt far ahead, because it started so much earlier. However, all of this effort has not been very effective, partly because there are inadequate ground forces to capitalise on the air strikes, and partly because many of the air strikes appear to have been badly targeted having done little harm to the continuing outflow of outflow of oil shipments into Turkey, on which ISIL relies for finance. Indeed, the Turks have probably been buying the oil, thus helping to finance ISIL's continuing exitence and its ongoing atrocities. What's more, some accounts suggest that the Turkish air force has been more focused on bombing the Kurds than it has ISIL. In fact, the Turks have probably made several illegal sorties into Iraq, doing the same kind of thing against the Kurds there too. If anything about this whole venture is absurd, this must surely take top prize.

Overall, the Alliance's campaign in stopping ISIL has hardly been a success so far. At best, it may have placed some restriction on its very rapid growth across vast areas of Syria and Iraq, but none of this has seriously hampered ISIL's ability to hit back hard when it suits it. Where it has fundamentally gone wrong for the Alliance is that it there is no way that bombing alone will not secure victory over ISIL. There needs to be well-coordinated and effective ground forces cover so that areas may be progressively gained back. I'm not saying that this has not happened to some extent, but it seems to have been of very limited success so far. This fact seems to be very well known, and is often cited, but nothing convincing ever seems to be proposed by the Alliance by way of an effective ground force ever emerging. Furthermore, it's most unclear what is assumed to happen with regard to the Assad army of 80,000 troops. Are they presumed to give up fighting for territory simply because a bomb wiped out ISIL in that particular geographical spot?

The Alliance's evident faith in the ragbag "army" of so-called moderates opposed to Assad doing any effective sweep-up operations and consolidation is hugely optimistic. Nobody is sure how many there are, or who exactly they comprise. The policy probably won't work because (i) the various groups are not well co-ordinated, but rather there seems to exist bitter rivalry among several of them, (ii) some of them appear to be untrustworthy as they are reported to have occasional linkages with Al-Qaeda when it suits them, (iii) for some groups they're apparently not interested in forming a democratic structure for the whole of Syria, but rather seek more local autonomy/independence in the areas they currently live. In short, there is no evidence that anything concrete may likely emerge from any of this Alliance bombing activity, other than mere containment if ISIL at the fringes of its already extensive area of occupation.

Because of these factors, it would be hugely optimistic to believe that any lasting peace settlement can be achieved by a continuation of the present policy. The latest attempts to set up a political dialogue across the various factions probably stand little chance of success. The sad fact seems to be that Syria (like so much else of the Middle East) isn't the kind of place where democracy may be expected to work, as there are too many diverse ethnic groups with conflicting aims and religious rivalries etc. Some parts of the West never seem to "get this" but rather continue their misguided efforts at regime change under one guise or another. This happened in Iraq and Libya, and the result was a good deal of regret and chaos. In the UK's HOC discussion yesterday about whether or not the UK should join in the bombing of Syria a number of MPs raised these broad concerns. They would obviously like to see the end of ISIL as soon as possible but can hardly see this being achieved without a clear plan of action on the ground, and political follow-up process, neither of which seems at all promising in the proposals. I share their concerns.

Against this, the Russians, although they started their bombing campaign in Syria much more recently, would appear to have a much better chance of success because they are manifestly doing this in support of the Assad army, reckoned to number some 80,000 troops. It is by this that I meant that only country that is doing anything serious going for ISIL is the Russians. This of course assumes that Turkey doesn't undertake any more sabotage operations. Why Turkey is allowed to remain in NATO baffles me. They are dangerous and should have their wings clipped sharply and very quickly.

Lastly, I do wish that some people on the Forum would not be constantly making newspaper links to support their arguments. To me it is a very lazy way of trying to make a point, or to respond to a point made by others. I can seldom be bothered to read any of these links.

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:24 am

How do you interpret his behavior as mocking a disabled person? I don't. Trump says he has never even seen the reporter before and didn't even know he was handicapped. This is more Trump derangement syndrome or another desperate attempt to smear Trump's persona. The media better be careful and pick things more carefully, as I suspect a lot of people are going to see this is as BS and more reason to not trust the media and the media reporting on Trump.

BTW, there is as much disgust with the media as there is with the political establishment, though both seem totally oblivious of how widespread the disgust is.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

lennygoran
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:47 am

jbuck919 wrote:I also would not be surprised if the Republicans simply throw the presidential race knowing that they still control the country
This would sure surprise me alot. Regards, Len

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:55 am

Sapphire wrote:I did not intend to return to this discussion but I feel compelled to reply to the suggestion above that the USA alliance, in its bombing raids over Syria, has been more of a serious threat to ISIL than the Russians appear to pose.
But why did you return to the wrong discussion-there was a nice long thread with all the material on the Syria ISIS situation already set up? Also as I understand it Russia will not be sending boots on the ground--working with Assad is a very bad policy imo. Regards, Len

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:01 am

rwetmore wrote:
>How do you interpret his behavior as mocking a disabled person? I don't.
You're blind-didn't you see how he mocked how this disabled person is forced by tragic circumstances to have to speak. And of course you disregard that he was mocked because he points out Trump's lie that he saw thousands of Muslims in NJ cheering on the collapse of the towers--there's not a shred of documentation for this--even Carson changed his claim. Regards, Len

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by John F » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:51 am

Sapphire wrote:Against this, the Russians, although they started their bombing campaign in Syria much more recently, would appear to have a much better chance of success because they are manifestly doing this in support of the Assad army, reckoned to number some 80,000 troops. It is by this that I meant that only country that is doing anything serious going for ISIL is the Russians.
You're the one who's naive, and illogical too. You back off from your previous erroneous claim that the Russians actually are attacking ISIL more than we are, to the wishful thinking that they "would appear to have a much better chance of success" by supporting Assad's army. But the primary war aim of Assad army has not been to defeat ISIL but to crush the rebellion against Assad. By joining them instead of us, the Russians too are attacking the rebels, such as the Turkmens - it's a strike against this anti-Assad group that led to the Russian fighter being shot down. Show me hard numbers of actual strikes against ISIL targets by Syrian and Russian forces, and their effectiveness. I've looked into that and they are both few in number and trivial in effect compared with what the U.S.-led coalition has been doing for more than a year.

If the Russians really were serious about attacking ISIL, they would instead have joined the coalition of which this is the primary war aim - not Assad's army but the U.S. et al. And now they have kind of halfway made a gesture in that direction, offering to coordinate their activities in Syria with those of France, and thereby indirectly with those of the U.S. and its other allies. Whether this will amount to effective action or merely keep their fighter planes out of each others' way, remains to be seen. So far it's just talk, and we don't yet know how the talk will translate into action or how effective that action will be.

You'd have done better to refrain from commenting further on this topic, as you said yesterday you would, at least until you have some actual evidence to show - not just dubious speculation motivated (it seems) more by anti-U.S. feelings than by any actual facts.
John Francis

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:26 pm

lennygoran wrote:
rwetmore wrote:
>How do you interpret his behavior as mocking a disabled person? I don't.
You're blind-didn't you see how he mocked how this disabled person is forced by tragic circumstances to have to speak.
No, what is the man's handicap?
lennygoran wrote:And of course you disregard that he was mocked because he points out Trump's lie that he saw thousands of Muslims in NJ cheering on the collapse of the towers--there's not a shred of documentation for this--even Carson changed his claim. Regards, Len
Many people have come forward and said they saw this on 9/11. Now, 'thousands' may have been an exaggeration, but it wasn't just in Jersey City. I've heard it was seen in Paterson, NJ too. There may be little official documentation because it's been reported that the behavior quickly stopped -- probably due to them realizing they would be putting themselves in danger by cheering out in the open as and after the Towers fell.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

John F
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by John F » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:02 pm

Associated Press wrote:Kovaleski has arthrogryposis, a congenital condition that restricts joint movement. In his speech, Trump cited the 2001 story, "written by a nice reporter," and went on: "Now the poor guy, you oughta see this guy — uh, I don't know what I said, uh, I don't remember. He's going like, I don't remember." He made jerking gestures and his voice took on a mocking tone.
http://news.yahoo.com/trump-called-appe ... tion.html#

What is it?
Arthrogryposis Multiplex Congenita is a condition that causes many joints to be stiff and crooked at birth... The range of motion in the joints of the arms and legs is usually limited or fixed.
http://www.amcsupport.org/faq1.htm

Trump was apparently mocking the effect of this condition on the reporter's arm and hand movements.
John Francis

lennygoran
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:26 pm

rwetmore wrote: Now, 'thousands' may have been an exaggeration,
You're making way too small a concession here--you're imo very biased--I can see nothing will change your mind. Regards, Len :(

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:05 pm

lennygoran wrote:
rwetmore wrote: Now, 'thousands' may have been an exaggeration,
You're making way too small a concession here--you're imo very biased--I can see nothing will change your mind. Regards, Len :(
I never claimed to not be biased, but I think your not facing reality if you don't think there were many Muslims in this country who more or less cheered the 9/11 attacks and when the Towers fell. Now, I don't think it was a majority of Muslims, but it was not a totally insignificant number either. Ultimately, that was Trump's point -- that we have a problem with radical Islam and those sympathetic to some degree or another with radical Islam, even in this country. Turning a blind eye to it because the thought of it is so highly disconcerting won't address or solve the problem.

Regarding the reporter, I do clearly see that Trump is mocking the man, but it's not clear to me that he's mocking the man's disability. I'd have to see a video of the man before I could tell. However, I find it just a tad inconsistent that a man (Trump) would make taking care of our war vets -- many of whom are disabled -- such a high priority if he was somehow making mockery of disabled people. Now we have people out there saying Trump is the next Hitler because he's anti-disabled people like Hitler was. I think Trump derangement syndrome has reached an all time high as of late.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

lennygoran
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:22 pm

rwetmore wrote: However, I find it just a tad inconsistent that a man (Trump) would make taking care of our war vets -- many of whom are disabled -- such a high priority if he was somehow making mockery of disabled people.
Yes that's the point he's been inconsistent on so many things and yet you continue to make excuses for him-amazing and sad. Regards, Len :(

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:45 pm

The GOP establishment is now in full blown panic mode. Many of them are now realizing that time is running out and it's looking more and more like Trump has a real shot at the nomination:

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/26 ... over-trump

I really don't know what's going to happen, but these latest attempts to take him out reek of desperation to me. I suspect they do to many others as well, and in the end the establishment's whole effort may even backfire on them. It seems his polling numbers have now come back down to where they were before the Paris attacks, but he's still way ahead with Carson fading and Rubio gaining no ground.

BTW, I listened to the interview with Stephanopoulos and Trump never said he wants to shut down mosques -- only that he thinks certainly ones should be watched as they had been in years past. So again, more deliberate lies about things he's saying and positions he's taken.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:50 pm

lennygoran wrote:Yes that's the point he's been inconsistent on so many things and yet you continue to make excuses for him-amazing and sad. Regards, Len :(
Uh, what has he been inconsistent on? I've followed the campaign and his message has been very consistent overall. In fact, if anything it's been overly repetitive.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:53 pm

John F wrote:No doubt it isn't as simple as that, and in fact nobody has any idea how this extraordinary melée is going to turn out.
Well, on this point we agree. I don't know what the heck is going to happen.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

John F
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by John F » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:33 pm

Maybe Trump's professed concern for veterans is just a pose, and he actually cares no more for them (disabled or not) than for anybody else other than himself. Has he ever contributed to any charity which helps veterans, like the DAV (Disabled American Veterans) Charitable Service Trust, or made a special effort to hire veterans in his various businesses? Or is it just more of Trump's grandstanding? Maybe you know, but I don't.

Trump himself never served in the military, thanks to four student deferments and then an odd sequence in which his draft classification was first 1-A, then suddenly 4-F, before he got lucky in the draft lottery because of his date of birth. His being sent to school at a military academy doesn't count, though Trump wants people to believe it's somehow comparable with genuine military service. I don't know that he did anything wrong, but he certainly took advantage of every legal loophole to avoid military service when more than a million Americans, including me, were drafted or joined up and gave our years, if not our lives and limbs, to serving our country during the Vietnam War.
John Francis

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:09 am

John F wrote:Maybe Trump's professed concern for veterans is just a pose, and he actually cares no more for them (disabled or not) than for anybody else other than himself.
I simply take that for granted. There is no money where his mouth is. As for the rest, I take a certain special interest in his high school military academy experience because the school in question, which only closed this year, was in my home town, just a block away from my own high school in fact, and for years it was part of my own routine. (Such proficiency as I have in Latin is owing to one of their teachers who tutored me.) Trump can be on the mark when he wishes to be, and one of the few sensible things he has said is that the death knell for military academies, a peculiarly American institution that served a decent purpose and is still represented by a few holdover examples, was related to the reaction against US involvement in Vietnam. Still, with regard to the overriding consideration that he compares that experience with actual service, he is a fool and I find myself in agreement with John F. I had an unsafe lottery number in the one year when I overlapped with the draft age, and some day I'll tell the tale of how I dealt with that. It will not be a matter of pride, but neither will it be one of ignominy.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:33 am

rwetmore wrote: Uh, what has he been inconsistent on? I've followed the campaign and his message has been very consistent overall. In fact, if anything it's been overly repetitive.
So many messages have been posted in this forum-you just haven't followed them too closely-from Mexican rapists to the wall he's going to build to a his attack on captured veterans who don't win to Carly's face-now mocking the disabled and claiming 1000's of Moslems cheered-he's done it this and more but apologists like you continue to support him. Regards, Len :(

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:42 am

John F wrote: His being sent to school at a military academy doesn't count, though Trump wants people to believe it's somehow comparable with genuine military service.
Agree completely-it's like when he said he could handle Putin best because they both happened to appear on the same 60 Minutes show-completely different segments! Carly knew how to handle that ridiculous claim--of course her own claim also proved kind of ridiculous too. Regards, Len :lol:

"During Tuesday's Republican debate, Donald Trump repeated his claim that if he became president he would strive to work with Russia's leader, Vladimir Putin. The American billionaire went so far as to suggest he supported the Russian president's intervention in Syria, adding that he understood Putin as "I got to know him very well because we were both on '60 Minutes,' we were stablemates, and we did very well that night."

Trump's friendly message to the Russian leader received a rebuke from another candidate, Carly Fiorina, who explained that she would not work with Putin. "I have met him as well, not in a green room for a show, but in a private meeting," she said in a line that was greeted with laughter and applause.

Despite both these candidates implying they understood the Russian leader because of specific meetings with him, their accounts were quickly challenged.

It appears that when Trump and Putin appeared on the Sept. 27 edition of the "60 Minutes" show, they were in two very different cities (New York and Moscow), suggesting that Trump met Putin as readers did — on a screen during a taped "60 Minutes" interview. And it turns out that Fiorina met with the Russian leader before the 2001 APEC Conference in China, during a meeting she just recently described as "sorta a green room setting."

In fact, during her speech at that conference, Fiorina offered a view of Putin that could be interpreted as relatively positive, describing the "change" Putin was bringing Russia."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... mir-putin/

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:44 pm

Well, all of this aside, if come January Trump is still leading by roughly the same large margins as today, the reality of him as the likely nominee will be hard to deny.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

John F
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by John F » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:34 pm

rwetmore wrote:Well, all of this aside, if come January Trump is still leading by roughly the same large margins as today, the reality of him as the likely nominee will be hard to deny.
Not the reality, just the possibility. On January 1, and indeed on January 31, not a single vote will have been cast for him or any other Republican candidate. And a substantial number of primaries won't have been held until after March 1, "super Tuesday." Hold your horses. The reductio ad absurdam of American electoral democracy hasn't happened just yet.
John Francis

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:57 pm

John F wrote:
rwetmore wrote:Well, all of this aside, if come January Trump is still leading by roughly the same large margins as today, the reality of him as the likely nominee will be hard to deny.
Not the reality, just the possibility.
I did only say 'likely' nominee. The possibility easily exists now.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by karlhenning » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:10 am

lennygoran wrote:
rwetmore wrote: Now, 'thousands' may have been an exaggeration,
You're making way too small a concession here--you're imo very biased--I can see nothing will change your mind. Regards, Len :(
Especially the weaselly "may have been." But then, his idol is The Weasel Supreme!

Cheers,
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by karlhenning » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:18 am

rwetmore wrote:How do you interpret his behavior as mocking a disabled person? I don't.
Maybe you think El Tupé's poop is rainbow-colored, too ; )

Cheers,
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
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rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:26 pm

Trump himself responds this accusation at his latest rally. He addresses it around the 30 minute mark. I tend to believe his explanation...this is made up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ekBR3eAQ_E
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:51 pm

BTW, it was not widely reported but former NYC mayor Rudy Giuliani has come forward to back Trump's claim that many Muslims were seen in Jersey City celebrating the attack and fall of the towers the day of 9/11.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:16 pm

More on this:

New Evidence Vindicates Trump on Muslim 9/11 Celebrations in Jersey City

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/ ... ersey_city

There are actual specific sources and links in this transcript regarding mainstream media reporting of this when it happened.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by barney » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:04 am

I can believe that Trump might win the nomination, because Republicans seem (to outsiders like me) to belong to some distant loony galaxy. At least, the Tea Party end of the GOP.

But surely he is unelectable against Clinton, or a chimpanzee or a clipping from a rose bush or whoever the Democrats put up.

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:52 am

barney wrote:I can believe that Trump might win the nomination, because Republicans seem (to outsiders like me) to belong to some distant loony galaxy. At least, the Tea Party end of the GOP.

But surely he is unelectable against Clinton, or a chimpanzee or a clipping from a rose bush or whoever the Democrats put up.
Let us hope you are right.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by karlhenning » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:17 am

barney wrote:I can believe that Trump might win the nomination, because Republicans seem (to outsiders like me) to belong to some distant loony galaxy. At least, the Tea Party end of the GOP.
Goodness knows that sensible Republicans have entirely lost any semblance of control of the vehicle.

Cheers,
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
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rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:25 am

Now Bernard Kerik as well:

Kerik: Trump Correct, New York Area Muslims Were Celebrating After 9/11

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... r_911.html
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:30 am

rwetmore wrote:Now Bernard Kerik as well:

Kerik: Trump Correct, New York Area Muslims Were Celebrating After 9/11

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... r_911.html

I only had the tablet to look at this so skipped the video-however the written material doesn`t mention if it was thousands-I`m sure there were some muslims but was it thousands as trump says. Kerik mentions reports of celebrating does he get specific though on who made the reports-where`s the proof on all this. Len

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by karlhenning » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:46 pm

lennygoran wrote:. . . the written material doesn`t mention if it was thousands-I`m sure there were some muslims but was it thousands as trump says.
Exactly. No one contests that there were those who celebrated. The point is El Tupé lying with the thousands slur. Such a tendentious and poisonous exaggeration is rightly labeled a lie. Which is why El Tupé is so quick to deride others for their "lies": he is a barefaced weaselly liar of the first water.

Of course, Randall likes that.

Cheers,
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
Published by Lux Nova Press
http://www.luxnova.com/

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:13 pm

I tend to doubt that thousands were seen celebrating, but of those seen a few hundred is easily possible. But how many were celebrating inside their homes out of view from anyone? Could have been thousands quite easily.

The reporting I saw basically said that Trump's entire claim about Muslims being seen celebrating was bogus, and no such thing was seen by anyone or reported at all. That has now shown to be false, and is the point I'm making.

Giuliani himself said Trump was exaggerating, but said it none the less absolutely happened.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:46 pm

barney wrote:I can believe that Trump might win the nomination, because Republicans seem (to outsiders like me) to belong to some distant loony galaxy. At least, the Tea Party end of the GOP.
Oh no, his supporters and those leaning toward him or who like him (at least some aspects) extend far beyond just the Tea Party and go all the way to Reagan Democrats.
barney wrote:But surely he is unelectable against Clinton, or a chimpanzee or a clipping from a rose bush or whoever the Democrats put up.
Again, no. If he wins the nomination, Trump will be a very formidable candidate and be hard to beat. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either deluding themself or isn't paying attention, IMO.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

John F
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by John F » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:59 pm

No doubt some radicalized Muslims were glad that the World Trade Center was destroyed. After all, the first attack on the WTC in 1993 was organized and carried out by radicalized Muslims led by the blind sheikh Ramzi Yousef, then living in Jersey City. Yousef and another man actually carried out the plot, which killed six people, and four others were convicted as accomplices.

Flash forward to Donald Trump's claim that after the 9/11 attacks, "I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering." But so far, no videotape of celebrations on that scale has come forth, either from the alleged broadcaster or from viewers with their VCRs running. There's a clip on YouTube of a telecast from WCBS relating to this:



First, it wasn't "thousands and thousands" of people - not even a dozen. So Trump's claim is false - not even a dozen. Second, Trump's claim to have seen such a celebration on TV is also false, and his whining that no videotape has yet been produced is dumb. Neither CBS nor any other TV station would or could have had a camera crew on that rooftop when the twin towers were coming down across the river. American TV, including Fox News, did show an anti-US celebration by a crowd, but it was half a world away in East Jerusalem.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/this-is- ... aw-on-911/

Third, the building where all this supposedly happened is where some of the 1993 conspirators lived, so it's not the least surprising that a few likeminded people lived there too, possibly their friends and followers of Ramzi Yousef, and were glad to see the second attack on the World Trade Center succeed. Indeed, from the WCBS report, it appears they may have known in advance of the planned attack and were up on the roof waiting for it to happen.

The real question isn't about Jersey City in 2001 but about Donald Trump in 2015. What was his purpose in telling this tale, 14 years after the fact, during a campaign speech? The only one I can think of is to frighten non-Muslim Americans and provide some apparent justification for imposing surveillance and data collection on people who have done and will do nothing wrong.

This is indeed still more despicable Trump behavior.
John Francis

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:11 pm

This is Donald Trump's yearbook picture. I have no point to make beyond it. Our astute members may draw from it what conclusions they will.

Image

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by John F » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:21 pm

I don't see what conclusions could possibly be drawn from it, other than that he attended a military school. And frankly, I don't see the point of posting it, at any rate not in a thread titled "More Despicable Trump Behavior." Not only is it off-topic, it interferes with people seeing my post on Trump's false claim about anti-American celebrations in Jersey City, which actually is on topic. Of course that isn't what you intended but it's what you have done. Have I wasted my time researching and writing it?
John Francis

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:47 pm

John F wrote:No doubt some radicalized Muslims were glad that the World Trade Center was destroyed. After all, the first attack on the WTC in 1993 was organized and carried out by radicalized Muslims led by the blind sheikh Ramzi Yousef, then living in Jersey City. Yousef and another man actually carried out the plot, which killed six people, and four others were convicted as accomplices.

Flash forward to Donald Trump's claim that after the 9/11 attacks, "I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering." But so far, no videotape of celebrations on that scale has come forth, either from the alleged broadcaster or from viewers with their VCRs running. There's a clip on YouTube of a telecast from WCBS relating to this:



First, it wasn't "thousands and thousands" of people - not even a dozen. So Trump's claim is false - not even a dozen. Second, Trump's claim to have seen such a celebration on TV is also false, and his whining that no videotape has yet been produced is dumb. Neither CBS nor any other TV station would or could have had a camera crew on that rooftop when the twin towers were coming down across the river. American TV, including Fox News, did show an anti-US celebration by a crowd, but it was half a world away in East Jerusalem.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/this-is- ... aw-on-911/

Third, the building where all this supposedly happened is where some of the 1993 conspirators lived, so it's not the least surprising that a few likeminded people lived there too, possibly their friends and followers of Ramzi Yousef, and were glad to see the second attack on the World Trade Center succeed. Indeed, from the WCBS report, it appears they may have known in advance of the planned attack and were up on the roof waiting for it to happen.

The real question isn't about Jersey City in 2001 but about Donald Trump in 2015. What was his purpose in telling this tale, 14 years after the fact, during a campaign speech? The only one I can think of is to frighten non-Muslim Americans and provide some apparent justification for imposing surveillance and data collection on people who have done and will do nothing wrong.

This is indeed still more despicable Trump behavior.
Giuliani didn't say it happened, but was less than a dozen people in one isolated location or address. Neither did Kerik. Did you even read their statements? In fact, Kerik said there were witness reports of it happening in Paterson, NJ, in Brooklyn, and in Queens. The witness reports were not isolated to that one location in Jersey City you mention. It could have easily been hundreds in Jersey City alone, and easily thousands throughout the whole tri-state area. And that doesn't include those celebrating behind closed doors. We'll never know for sure just how many were celebrating, but it's no where near the infinitesimal and insignificant number you want to believe.

Did Trump exaggerate? Yes, most likely, but it's hardly despicable behavior or the making up of a tale. He says his office has been flooded with hundreds of calls from witnesses who say they saw it, and I don't doubt that they have and many did. The purpose of the telling of it is to face head on the problem we have with radical Islam and those sympathetic to the cause in this country and around the world, and we need not bury our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist or is comprised of only an infinitesimal and insignificant fraction of Muslims (in this country and elsewhere), and isn't a real problem or threat we face.
Last edited by rwetmore on Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:28 pm

I Live In Jersey And Trump Is Right: Muslims DID Celebrate On 9/11 In NJ . . . We Saw It!

Donald Trump is telling the truth about Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on September 11, 2001

http://www.infowars.com/i-live-in-jerse ... we-saw-it/

One witness claims to have directly seen a pocket of around 100 Muslims celebrating in Patterson, NJ.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:41 pm

John F wrote:I don't see what conclusions could possibly be drawn from it, other than that he attended a military school. And frankly, I don't see the point of posting it, at any rate not in a thread titled "More Despicable Trump Behavior." Not only is it off-topic, it interferes with people seeing my post on Trump's false claim about anti-American celebrations in Jersey City, which actually is on topic. Of course that isn't what you intended but it's what you have done. Have I wasted my time researching and writing it?
John, it was just for fun--you've never posted that way before? Excuuuuuuse me for "interfering" with your supposedly crucial post. Trump is a running joke. If he is actually elected, then we live in a country that does not deserve to have such as us as citizens, and there will be nothing either of us can do about it.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by John F » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:56 am

rwetmore wrote:Giuliani didn't say it happened, but was less than a dozen people in one isolated location or address. Neither did Kerik. Did you even read their statements? In fact, Kerik said there were witness reports of it happening in Paterson, NJ, in Brooklyn, and in Queens. The witness reports were not isolated to that one location in Jersey City you mention. It could have easily been hundreds in Jersey City alone, and easily thousands throughout the whole tri-state area. And that doesn't include those celebrating behind closed doors. We'll never know for sure just how many were celebrating, but it's no where near the infinitesimal and insignificant number you want to believe.
Now it's you who are indulging in Trump-like evasions. I have conclusively refuted his repeated claim that he saw thousands and thousands on TV in Jersey City celebrating as the towers came down. I've not just asserted but proved that this is not and couldn't possibly be true. He saw nobody in Jersey City on TV celebrating as the towers came down. What he said is not just "exaggerated," it's simply untrue.

I've given Trump the benefit of the doubt and not called it a lie, because I believe that to lie one must know that what one is saying is untrue, and I can't read Trump's mind and know whether he was lying or had a bad memory. But I will not let you change the subject from Trump's veracity, which is the issue I have raised. Do you not care whether or not he tells the truth? You want a man we can't trust to tell the truth, to be president of the United States? Unbelievable.
John Francis

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by rwetmore » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:38 am

John F wrote:Now it's you who are indulging in Trump-like evasions. I have conclusively refuted his repeated claim that he saw thousands and thousands on TV in Jersey City celebrating as the towers came down. I've not just asserted but proved that this is not and couldn't possibly be true. He saw nobody in Jersey City on TV celebrating as the towers came down. What he said is not just "exaggerated," it's simply untrue.

I've given Trump the benefit of the doubt and not called it a lie, because I believe that to lie one must know that what one is saying is untrue, and I can't read Trump's mind and know whether he was lying or had a bad memory. But I will not let you change the subject from Trump's veracity, which is the issue I have raised. Do you not care whether or not he tells the truth? You want a man we can't trust to tell the truth, to be president of the United States? Unbelievable.
John,

Might I suggest you go back and find Trump's *initial* comments on this. What you are quoting I think were subsequent comments he made at a rally. He initially -- I don't believe -- didn't say he personally saw thousands. On TV or anywhere else. Only that he saw some celebrating and that thousands of Muslims live in Jersey City. The second quote (the one you quoted) he's saying and meaning that he saw some of the supposed 'thousands' celebrating. Now personally, I doubt that thousands were celebrating out in public in Jersey City alone, and think it's likely that is a significant exaggeration; and one he shouldn't have made, but it could have easily been thousands and thousands throughout the tri-state area. I mean easily. There were reports of it being seen in Passaic County, NJ I've heard too. Most people who saw it somewhere probably didn't call the police or report it to anyone.

I don't know why you and so many others seem to want to pretend this didn't happen. Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think a majority of American Muslims cheered the attack, but a disturbing number of them nearly certainly did. How many or what percentage we'll probably never know.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

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Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by karlhenning » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:32 am

John F wrote:No doubt some radicalized Muslims were glad that the World Trade Center was destroyed. After all, the first attack on the WTC in 1993 was organized and carried out by radicalized Muslims led by the blind sheikh Ramzi Yousef, then living in Jersey City. Yousef and another man actually carried out the plot, which killed six people, and four others were convicted as accomplices.

Flash forward to Donald Trump's claim that after the 9/11 attacks, "I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering." But so far, no videotape of celebrations on that scale has come forth, either from the alleged broadcaster or from viewers with their VCRs running. There's a clip on YouTube of a telecast from WCBS relating to this:



First, it wasn't "thousands and thousands" of people - not even a dozen. So Trump's claim is false - not even a dozen. Second, Trump's claim to have seen such a celebration on TV is also false, and his whining that no videotape has yet been produced is dumb. Neither CBS nor any other TV station would or could have had a camera crew on that rooftop when the twin towers were coming down across the river. American TV, including Fox News, did show an anti-US celebration by a crowd, but it was half a world away in East Jerusalem.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/this-is- ... aw-on-911/

Third, the building where all this supposedly happened is where some of the 1993 conspirators lived, so it's not the least surprising that a few likeminded people lived there too, possibly their friends and followers of Ramzi Yousef, and were glad to see the second attack on the World Trade Center succeed. Indeed, from the WCBS report, it appears they may have known in advance of the planned attack and were up on the roof waiting for it to happen.

The real question isn't about Jersey City in 2001 but about Donald Trump in 2015. What was his purpose in telling this tale, 14 years after the fact, during a campaign speech? The only one I can think of is to frighten non-Muslim Americans and provide some apparent justification for imposing surveillance and data collection on people who have done and will do nothing wrong.

This is indeed still more despicable Trump behavior.
Yes; a hundred times, yes.

Cheers (not radicalized Muslim),
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
Published by Lux Nova Press
http://www.luxnova.com/

lennygoran
Posts: 15916
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: More Despicable Trump Behavior

Post by lennygoran » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:35 am

What`s your basis for saying there were thousands and thousands in the tri-state area-where`s your proof? Len

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