Is climate change not an issue?

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arepo
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Is climate change not an issue?

Post by arepo » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:35 am

Is this just more liberal bias or should those deniers face the reality?

http://www.scienceworldreport.com/artic ... record.htm


Cliftwood

rwetmore
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Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:54 am

But they don't say by how much it was the warmest year on record. It's probably by only a few 100ths of a degree C, and some data sets still show 1998 as the warmest year with 2010 a close second (I think UAH and RSS). Keep in mind also the margin of error for all these data sets is at least 0.2-0.3C, and the trend we are talking about is only about 0.3-0.4C since about 1980. These changes are orders of magnitude that are ridiculously small, yet this is what so many people are going bonkers over.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:01 pm

And the fact that it may have been the warmest year bears no significance since we are at the top of an upward trend of around 0.5-0.8C over the 20th century. Because the temperature has remained roughly stagnant over the last 16-17 years, every year is potentially a contender for the warmest year or one of the warmest years. Keep in mind also that just from month to month swings of around 0.3-0.4C in the global average are not uncommon, which means the entire trend in the last 35 years could be wiped out by just one month of cooling. This illustrates the complete absurdity surrounding of all of this and the miniscule magnitude of change that has actually occurred.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:14 pm

And of course 'climate change' is always an issue, just like it always has been since the beginning of time. Climate always changes and causes problems for people and benefits others. So many of these statements and much of the language used in this debate or issue has no real meaning of any sort. Without some kind of quantification and clear definition, much of this 'climate change' talk is meaningless nonsense.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

jbuck919
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Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:46 pm

Yet another Academic Bowl question I wrote for last night, the end of the season, was in a bonus category on climate change. Can you answer this? "Ironically, it was a catastrophic climate change which brought an end to the geologic period that produced one of the great sources of today's fossil fuels. Name this period which ended 300 million years ago." Neither team in the game I was reading (and they were the two best teams in the league) got this. They thought it must be Jurassic or some such dinosaur period, which would not come for many millions of years later. The correct answer is the Carboniferous Period. In one sense Randall is right, because although current climate change presents the very real possibility of disaster, it is happening relatively speaking in slow motion, so far anyway. If a "natural" change such as the one that ended the Carboniferous occurred today, we could all wave bye-bye to our brief moment as a species in the universe.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

rwetmore
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Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:11 pm

It's certainly true that catastrophic climate change can and has happened naturally. A more salient point though is significant natural climate change will always occur, cause problems, and pose a threat to humanity (and really all life on Earth).
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

jbuck919
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Posts: 26867
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Stony Creek, New York

Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:34 pm

rwetmore wrote:It's certainly true that catastrophic climate change can and has happened naturally. A more salient point though is significant natural climate change will always occur, cause problems, and pose a threat to humanity (and really all life on Earth).
Do not think for a minute I am agreeing with your stance that anthropogenic climate change is not a humanity-threatening problem. It may not cause our extinction, but how bad does it have to be short of that before some people get the point that all science now supports?

I always think of teaching moments (not preaching ones, I hope) when I write questions. Not even two centuries ago reasonable people would have questioned how we could possibly know the state of the Earth 300 million years prior to the present. There are states where I would be taken to task for assuming science to be our only real teacher. Fortunately, New York is not one of those (yet).

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

rwetmore
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:24 pm

Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by rwetmore » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:23 am

jbuck919 wrote:Do not think for a minute I am agreeing with your stance that anthropogenic climate change is not a humanity-threatening problem. It may not cause our extinction, but how bad does it have to be short of that before some people get the point that all science now supports?
What evidence do you have that the current climate change we have had recently, independent of whether it's anthropogenic or not, is any worse or more significant than the climate change that has occurred all throughout history? I mean history is laded with examples of changing climate causing major problems and shifts in civilizations. So what's so spectacular about the change we have seen in the last 35 years, which is only around 0.3-0.4C of warming and where we have seen no discernible warming for 16-17 years? Relative to the amount of change we're experiencing, there is barely anything going on at all, yet with all the rhetoric you would think we are undergoing some spectacular and unprecedented change in the climate.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

Chalkperson
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Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by Chalkperson » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:42 pm

rwetmore wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:Do not think for a minute I am agreeing with your stance that anthropogenic climate change is not a humanity-threatening problem. It may not cause our extinction, but how bad does it have to be short of that before some people get the point that all science now supports?
What evidence do you have that the current climate change we have had recently, independent of whether it's anthropogenic or not, is any worse or more significant than the climate change that has occurred all throughout history? I mean history is laded with examples of changing climate causing major problems and shifts in civilizations. So what's so spectacular about the change we have seen in the last 35 years, which is only around 0.3-0.4C of warming and where we have seen no discernible warming for 16-17 years? Relative to the amount of change we're experiencing, there is barely anything going on at all, yet with all the rhetoric you would think we are undergoing some spectacular and unprecedented change in the climate.
Randall vs 200 Countries, and of course CMG's resident Climate Troll must be the only truly illuminated one here.
Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson

John F
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Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by John F » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:06 am

arepo wrote:Is this just more liberal bias or should those deniers face the reality?
Obviously it isn't just liberal bias, as nearly 200 countries across the political spectrum have formally agreed to try to slow or stop it. But in American politics just now, other issues are monopolizing the campaigns and the discussion. And deniers like rwetmore will always find excuses, no matter how weak or how wrong, to keep denying. That's life.
John Francis

rwetmore
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Re: Is climate change not an issue?

Post by rwetmore » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:55 pm

Chalkperson wrote:Randall vs 200 Countries, and of course CMG's resident Climate Troll must be the only truly illuminated one here.
JohnF wrote:Obviously it isn't just liberal bias, as nearly 200 countries across the political spectrum have formally agreed to try to slow or stop it.
What is the scientific significance of 200 countries? Zero. X number of countries being supposedly for action to slow something isn't science. In science, there is no significance to numbers of people or numbers of countries supporting something. Moreover, if you really think it's even close to Randall vs. 200 countries, then you're far more misguided and/or deluded than any one lone person with a unique contradictory view or theory. Scientists are not required to officially report their views, so it can't be proven or demonstrated what they actually think the weight of the evidence supports in regards to climate.

Most countries supporting some kind of 'action' are just accepting the conclusions of the IPCC's latest report, which BTW is basically no different than the previous report. Surprise, surprise. 'Climate science' is virtually a government funded monopoly, whose objective is not really to ensure the science is right, but to show and support the *possibility* of extreme change and ensure it provides a continuous stream of funding for them as long as possible. Every few years they assemble some official looking reports, and succeed in further swindling the gov't out of billions of dollars of research money. When the purported science doesn't come true, they can just say "I'm glad I/we were wrong". So easy.

They are just going to milk this thing as long as the government is effectively dumb enough to keep funding it.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

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