USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

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jserraglio
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USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by jserraglio » Mon May 04, 2020 2:20 pm

USA TODAY OPINION COLUMN
What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... 3051791001

barney
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by barney » Mon May 04, 2020 6:20 pm

Thanks for posting this. I'm clearly not the only one who thinks Trump has blood on his hands, and for no better reasons than his ugly, monstrous ego.

"Two epidemiologists estimated that 90% of U.S. deaths in the first wave of the COVID-19 epidemic might have been prevented if social distancing policies had gone into effect March 2, instead of March 16.

"When he could have been taking action that might have saved tens of thousands of lives, Trump was busy tweeting, holding rallies, golfing, partying at Mar-A-Lago and silencing the CDC. "

I suggested 20,000 deaths as a conservative estimate. But as the US approaches 70,000 deaths, it seems the real figure for which he is at least partially responsible could be 63,000. What a vile person!

It's just inconceivable to me that Americans won't hold him to account for this. But it's quite possible.

jserraglio
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by jserraglio » Tue May 05, 2020 5:19 am

USA Today is centrist. New Right radicals, they who elegize bread while stuffing their faces with cake, can hardly tag it as the MSM (Mainstream Media) they dreamt up to enhance those that toe their party line.
Barney wrote:It's just inconceivable to me that Americans won't hold him to account for this. But it's quite possible.
American politics is so deliciously paradoxical I love it!

Americans could reject Trump decisively at the polls this year (as they did in 2016) and still re-elect him. We are not a democracy but a republic. Our President is NOT elected by popular vote but by vote of an Electoral College. The Democrats have lost 2 of the 5 presidential elections held in this century while winning the popular vote in all of them.

So the 2020 election won't be decided by coastal populations east and west nor by those on the border south, but by states in the Midwest—Penn, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota.

By the way I am in favor of keeping the Electoral College (not that there would be the slightest chance of abolishing it without touching off a civil war).

Poetic justice: You wanna be POTUS, you better win some flyover states. Neophyte Clinton forgot that political fact of life last time around. Saavy Joe won't.

lennygoran
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by lennygoran » Wed May 06, 2020 9:00 am

jserraglio wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 5:19 am
>I love it!<

Joseph here's what I loved from yesterday. Regards, Len


The Lincoln Project Releases New Ad: “Mourning in America”

https://lincolnproject.us/news/mourning-america/

The visit to the mask facility.

Image Dig those goggles!

And must TV for next week-May 12th Bright!
Virus Whistle-Blower Says Trump Administration Steered Contracts to Cronies

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/us/p ... lower.html

Rick Bright, the ousted chief of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Agency, said he was pressured to steer millions of dollars to the clients of a well-connected consultant.

Rach3
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by Rach3 » Wed May 06, 2020 10:30 am

Small business owner: “We’ll know it’s safe when hospitals start allowing visitors again, not until then. “ Bingo. Reopen is Russian roulette with the bullet hitting others than the one holding the gun.

jserraglio
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by jserraglio » Wed May 06, 2020 10:31 am

Like many of his fellow radicals on the Right, their feet firmly planted in the air, Trump has chosen to avert his gaze from a national catastrophe.

The death toll in the USA is set to overtake Nagasaki's this week and soon after that, Hiroshima's.

Donald Trump is slated to go down in history as the second coming of Herbert Hoover, except that the his name will live on in a damn, not a dam.

barney
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by barney » Wed May 06, 2020 1:21 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:31 am
Like many of his fellow radicals on the Right, their feet firmly planted in the air, Trump has chosen to avert his gaze from a national catastrophe.

The death toll in the USA is set to overtake Nagasaki's this week and soon after that, Hiroshima's.

Donald Trump is slated to go down in history as the second coming of Herbert Hoover, except that the his name will live on in a damn, not a dam.
Was Herbert Hoover the second worst President in your view, Joseph? I imagine there are no other candidates for worst, given not only Trump's contempt for the Constitution and the office but also his dismantling of American prestige in the world. Who has been particularly bad?

jserraglio
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by jserraglio » Wed May 06, 2020 3:02 pm

I remember 13 Presidents. All but one were worthy of respect. Even Nixon in several ways.

Herbert Hoover did some good things on the public works front. He became defined negatively by his passivity on one big thing. Conversely, foreign adventurism undermined LBJ and Bush II. Reagan, Bush I and FDR were defined positively by measured, decisive actions taken to address crises like the Cold War, Iraqi aggression and WW II.

Trump's unwillingness to commit the federal government to confront the present ongoing catastrophe reminds me of George Bush II's mismanagement after Katrina, but of course on a much smaller scale.

When the history of human stupidity is written, volume one will be devoted wholly to Trump, volume two to everybody else. Trump being most favored of all in the court of the Goddess Dulness. Poetic justice.

barney
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by barney » Wed May 06, 2020 6:14 pm

Yes, Nixon is the first that I am aware of, in the sense of taking a keen interest in politics from that time on.
And what about your approval order? Who's the best in your time? I always thought Carter the most decent as a man, but inadequate as President for that very reason - he was paralysed by indecision in his desire to do the best thing. Too much on the one hand, on the other. And, of course, Iran.

jserraglio
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by jserraglio » Wed May 06, 2020 8:37 pm

I can't really remember a time when I was not keenly interested in politics.

I recall Truman vividly and later attended one-off lectures by Dean Acheson (a stunning intellect!), George Ball, George Kennan, J. Kenneth Galbraith and Edwin O. Reischauer.

My personal ranking of those I remember.

Truman
Eisenhower
Kennedy
Reagan
Bush I
Johnson
Obama
Clinton
Ford
Carter
Bush II
Nixon




Trump

Holden Fourth
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by Holden Fourth » Thu May 07, 2020 4:01 am

barney wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 6:20 pm
"Two epidemiologists estimated that 90% of U.S. deaths in the first wave of the COVID-19 epidemic might have been prevented if social distancing policies had gone into effect March 2, instead of March 16.
Estimated??? - pure speculation and probably BS. Have they published peer reviewed facts and figures? Doubt it. What about the other 50+ epidemiologists who haven't stated this? What's the story there? Where's their opinion.

Two points to make here. While all of you are indulging in one America's favourite pastimes which I call POTUS beating (it's been going on for decades) there are a couple of simple facts that need to be taken into account.

1. Where did this pandemic start? How long did it take for the Chinese government to inform the rest of the world that "Houston -we have a problem"?
It's the Chinese who initially need to be held to account for something that could have been contained to a small area of the world. And don't forget that your annual dose of death dealing influenza originates in the same place. That shouldn't be a problem this year should it.

2. The response to Covid19 is not being done on a national front because that's impossible in your political system! Each state has put their own measures into place to combat something that has affected less than half of one percent of your population. That's fifty nationally uncoordinated responses that have disappeared under a let's bash the White House response from much of your media. It can be the only reason that half the US deaths have occurred in NY alone. NY have failed miserably haven't they? The next highest toll is neighbouring New Jersey.

So what's happening in your state?

Here in Australia, we elected a Prime Minister who effectively did a Trump and won against the odds. Thank God for us because his leadership is steering us out of this crisis. Despite the fact that a large percentage of Australians don't support him politically, the whole country has got behind him and what he is doing because we know how important it is. Yes, we have the same 'state' issues that the US does but there is basically a general consensus among them and I'm sure the federal government is in there somewhere quietly driving it along. Now this is from a nation that has a history of civil disobedience which we have put aside to work as a unified people. I am so proud of being Australian at the moment.

lennygoran
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by lennygoran » Thu May 07, 2020 5:16 am

barney wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:14 pm
Yes, Nixon is the first that I am aware of, in the sense of taking a keen interest in politics from that time on.
And what about your approval order? Who's the best in your time? I always thought Carter the most decent as a man, but inadequate as President for that very reason - he was paralysed by indecision in his desire to do the best thing.
Barney a good thing about Carter-he had opera piped into the Oval Office! As for Nixon love Nixon In China opera-his anti semitic comments not so much. I consider Obama one of our best-empathy, intellect, no scandals.

And now following the example of trump sarcasm:
One good thing Trump has done recently-appointed White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany -"Kayleigh McEnany Says It’s ‘Nonsensical’ to Think Everyone Should Get a Coronavirus Test." "If we tested every single American in this country at this moment, we’d have to retest them an hour later and an hour later after that because at any moment, you could theoretically contract this virus,” she said. “The notion that everyone needs to be tested is simply nonsensical.”:( Regards, Len

jserraglio
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by jserraglio » Thu May 07, 2020 6:00 am

Holden Fourth wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 4:01 am
The response to Covid19 is not being done on a national front because that's impossible in your political system! Each state has put their own measures into place to combat something that has affected less than half of one percent of your population.
Heeding your demand for data, I note that's more than 72.000 people dead in little more than two months.

Calling for substantiation is one thing, but for an Australian to state to Americans as a "simple fact" that a coordinated federal response to the covid epidemic is "impossible in your political system!" reveals, among other acute embarrassments, the maxim "It takes a non-American to say anything intelligent about America" to be a vast oversimplification.
Last edited by jserraglio on Thu May 07, 2020 8:27 am, edited 3 times in total.

barney
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by barney » Thu May 07, 2020 8:24 am

Holden Fourth wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 4:01 am
barney wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 6:20 pm
"Two epidemiologists estimated that 90% of U.S. deaths in the first wave of the COVID-19 epidemic might have been prevented if social distancing policies had gone into effect March 2, instead of March 16.
Estimated??? - pure speculation and probably BS. Have they published peer reviewed facts and figures? Doubt it. What about the other 50+ epidemiologists who haven't stated this? What's the story there? Where's their opinion.

Two points to make here. While all of you are indulging in one America's favourite pastimes which I call POTUS beating (it's been going on for decades) there are a couple of simple facts that need to be taken into account.

1. Where did this pandemic start? How long did it take for the Chinese government to inform the rest of the world that "Houston -we have a problem"?
It's the Chinese who initially need to be held to account for something that could have been contained to a small area of the world. And don't forget that your annual dose of death dealing influenza originates in the same place. That shouldn't be a problem this year should it.

2. The response to Covid19 is not being done on a national front because that's impossible in your political system! Each state has put their own measures into place to combat something that has affected less than half of one percent of your population. That's fifty nationally uncoordinated responses that have disappeared under a let's bash the White House response from much of your media. It can be the only reason that half the US deaths have occurred in NY alone. NY have failed miserably haven't they? The next highest toll is neighbouring New Jersey.

So what's happening in your state?

Here in Australia, we elected a Prime Minister who effectively did a Trump and won against the odds. Thank God for us because his leadership is steering us out of this crisis. Despite the fact that a large percentage of Australians don't support him politically, the whole country has got behind him and what he is doing because we know how important it is. Yes, we have the same 'state' issues that the US does but there is basically a general consensus among them and I'm sure the federal government is in there somewhere quietly driving it along. Now this is from a nation that has a history of civil disobedience which we have put aside to work as a unified people. I am so proud of being Australian at the moment.
1: Did you read the link with which Joseph opened the thread? That's what I was quoting.
2: Re China, no one has denied this. There's lots of culpability to go round. China is definitely at the top of the list. I place Trump second. But if you've been following the threads - and probably many haven't - you will see that China's role is completely recognised.
3: In Australia we have state and federal responsibilities too. And generally that has worked well, because no one has Trump's attitude. No one pretended it was a political hoax to damage them, and instead of waiting for weeks after the WHO to call it a pandemic we made that decision weeks early. Our leaders were actually able to express a measure of empathy for the suffering, rather than just demanding adulation and applause and shoving off the platform anyone who didn't show enough. In Victoria, our lockdown has been tougher than yours in Queensland because our Premier thinks the Prime Minister has been a little underpowered. Who was right will take a long time to resolve. But where, in the US, there are federal responsibilities, Trump has not been interested until recently and, given his short attention span, that didn't last long.
4: I too think the Federal Government has done a good job. Given how badly Morrison mangled handling the bushfires, he has been really on top of this one. I wrote to my MP to thank him for the Government's leadership on this. But you can't say, in my view, thank God for us, at least to the extent that we don't know whether Labour would have handled it even better. We just can't know. You can surmise, of course, but that's all it is.
5: How very American of you to be so proud of being Australian. :D I don't think patriotism has anything to do with it, but don't read that as a criticism. You are totally entitled to your view.

barney
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by barney » Thu May 07, 2020 8:36 am

jserraglio wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 6:00 am
Holden Fourth wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 4:01 am
The response to Covid19 is not being done on a national front because that's impossible in your political system! Each state has put their own measures into place to combat something that has affected less than half of one percent of your population.
Heeding your demand for data, I note that's more than 72.000 people dead in little more than two months.

Calling for substantiation is one thing, but for an Australian to state to Americans as a "simple fact" that a coordinated federal response to the covid epidemic is "impossible in your political system!" reveals, among other acute embarrassments, the maxim "It takes a non-American to say anything intelligent about America" to be a vast oversimplification.
I just don't understand this desire to downplay the disease, which again starts with Trump. 72,000 dead is a hell of a number, all people who might otherwise still be alive. Many might not, of course. If you gave a minute's silence to each one that's 1200 hours.

I'm in a high risk group. I still value my life, have plans, hopes, pleasures. My life,to me, is very much worth living. To minimise it by saying it kills less than 1 per cent of the population disturbs me. But heck, I'm over 60. I should just get off the planet and make room for someone else, apparently. Perhaps make a bit more room in Melbourne for more Queenslanders to arrive. :)

jserraglio
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by jserraglio » Thu May 07, 2020 9:16 am

barney wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:36 am
To minimise it by saying it kills less than 1 per cent of the population disturbs me.
Well, I reject condolences from no quarter, even if it be Holden Fourth's reassurance that my death will niche me into "less than half of one percent of your population". Given that consoling message, let nobody ever again charge cost/benefit analysis with being heartless.

Reading that, I go in peace, regretting that I have only one life to give for those who populate Planet Trump, both here and abroad, even in (of all places) Australia.
Last edited by jserraglio on Thu May 07, 2020 12:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Rach3
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Re: USA TODAY: What Republicans don't get: Donald Trump is our biggest obstacle to coronavirus recovery

Post by Rach3 » Thu May 07, 2020 10:18 am

From news today from TrumpReich you can look up if interested:

Wisconsin chief justice sparks backlash by saying covid-19 outbreak is among meatpacking workers, not "the regular folks". (Wisconsin's stay-at-home orders being challenged )

President Trump says his administration will continue the legal fight to eliminate Obamacare, defying a last-minute request from Attorney General William Barr to modify the administration's position.

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