Please help me clarify liner notes & identify performers

[RebLem]

As some of you know, I purchased the hanssler CBE (Complete Bach Edition) last year and am slowly going through it, listening to each CD. I have a problem figuring out how to catalogue it (old style, on 3 X 5's, not a computer program).

On some of the CDs, more than one instrumental and/or vocal ensemble is listed, and it is not always clear (at least to me), what forces are employed in which work.

For example, take Vol 9. Cantatas 27, 28, and 29. At the very bottom, Helmuth Rilling is listed as the conductor. That's easy. Above it, it says

Gachinger Kantorei Stuttgart | Bach-Collegium Stuttgart | Wurttembergisches Kammerorchester Heilbronn (BWV 29)

Now, I do understand here that the Wurttemberg Chamber Orch of Heilbronn plays in BWV 29. The question is this--Is this in addition to the Bach-Collegium Stuttgart or instead of it?

[premont]

Instead of it.

[jbuck919]

As some of you know, I purchased the hanssler CBE (Complete Bach Edition) last year and am slowly going through it, listening to each CD. I have a problem figuring out how to catalogue it (old style, on 3 X 5's, not a computer program).

On some of the CDs, more than one instrumental and/or vocal ensemble is listed, and it is not always clear (at least to me), what forces are employed in which work.

For example, take Vol 9. Cantatas 27, 28, and 29. At the very bottom, Helmuth Rilling is listed as the conductor. That's easy. Above it, it says

Gachinger Kantorei Stuttgart | Bach-Collegium Stuttgart | Wurttembergisches Kammerorchester Heilbronn (BWV 29)

Now, I do understand here that the Wurttemberg Chamber Orch of Heilbronn plays in BWV 29. The question is this--Is this in addition to the Bach-Collegium Stuttgart or instead of it?

Instead of, trust me, going back to the tradition of who actually played in the groundbreaking Telefunken complete set of Bach Cantatas (a couple of those were actually sung by the King's College Choir).

By the time any set of ensembles (and it is always a chorus and instrumental group put together, not a set combination thereof, not to mention soloists) gets to the end of a Bach cantata cycle, they have had to make numerous adjustments. Nobody else wrote over 200 masterpieces in the same genre requiring forces at this level. Nobody else even came close. It must be a nightmare for anyone who undertakes the project.

Is it that important, Reb? Are you enjoying the performances? That is all that matters.

[ch1525]

Do you have the real Hanssler set or the cheapy version that you can find on eBay? I got the cheapo version for about $150.

[Haydnseek]

Do you have the real Hanssler set or the cheapy version that you can find on eBay? I got the cheapo version for about $150.

What do you think of the sound quality of the cheaper version?

[ch1525]

It is all the same recordings and everything so I think it is pretty much identical. The big difference is in presentation. Pretty cheap but maybe worth it. The difference in price is pretty significant. Don't be expecting good liner notes though. Very scant and mostly in German.

[premont]

I own several of the original Haenssler edition items (almost all the instrumental CDs) , as well as the complete cheap edition. As far as I can hear, the of sound-quality of the cheap edition equals the quality of the original Haenssler edition perfectly.

[RebLem]

Mine is the real, complete hanssler which I got for I think $888 or thereabouts from Musical Heritage Society, BUT, they don't have the MHS label on them. They are the original hansslers. They are currently offering it at a higher price, almost double it. I think the difference between it and the cheapo versions may be in the documentation in the booklets? Mine could hardly be more detailed. Complete texts in four languages, a short essay on each cantata detailing what occasion it was written for and the exact date it was first performed, where that is known. It seems to be known in about 80% of the cases, from my memory of the ones I have listened to so far. Then there is information on textual sources, in other words, who wrote the words. Sometimes they are amalgams from various sources, but the booklets deal with all this in meticulous detail. In fact, on page 3 of each booklet (counting the front cover as page 1) , for each work you have the name of the cantata in German, the BWV #, the total timing, a list of the titles in English, French, and Italian, then a list of the vocal soloists by name and type voice, then a list of each and every individual instrumental musician who participated in the recording of that particular cantata. Then, the same information for every other cantata on the CD; then at the bottom, you have the names of the groups involved, and the conductor, as I listed them in the lead post in the thread. On page 2, there are production details. Dates of recordings are not listed, but months and years are; so are recording venues, the recording company, the names of the engineers, etc.--basically, everything you could want except the actual dates.

Then on pages 4 & 5, we have short two line descriptions of each track on the CD. On page 6, the actual complete texts begin--German and English on page 6, French and Italian in page 7, and continuing through page 19. At the bottom of page 18 and 19 is a short statement in each of the 4 languages: "The texts printed here may deviate slightly from the texts heard in the recordings. This is due to the fact that at the time of Helmuth Rilling's complete recordings, many Bach cantatas had not yet been published in the 'Neue Bachausgabe", so that material from the old "Bach-Gesamtausgabe" had to be used. The texts printed here, and those found in Alfred Durr's "Das Kantaten von Johann Sebastian Bach" (latest edition: Kassel, 1995) are from the "Neue Bachausgabe."

Then, page 20, 21, and 22 are devoted to a full page essay on each cantata on the CD in German, and page 23 is a uniform statement which appears in every booklet in the series entitled "Tradition, Wandel, Artualitat." ("Tradition, Change, Modernity.") Pages 24-27 is the same material in English, 28-31 in French, 32-35 in Italian. Page 36 is a b & w photo of Rilling conducting, showing his head, arms, and the upper half of his torso. Page 37 contains a 4 language statement informing us that this CD is part of the hanssler series of the complete Bach works and telling us where we can obtain the whole set or more information, all of it imposed over a photo of a portrait of Bach himself. The next two pages are blank, and page 40 is the back cover, which basically repeats some of the information on page 3.

So you see, it has just about everything you could want in a CD booklet. And keep in mind that this is just one CD in the whole series.

I hope that answers everyone's questions. Thanks to all of you for answering mine.

[ch1525]

Well, there's an idea! You can just type everything out for us here and everyone else can get the cheap version!!! Just kidding!

[premont]

Joke aside. Does anyone know, if the cheap version is still available?

[ch1525]

I see it coming up on eBay every once and a while. Not as much as I used to though.