Heavy Metal

Madame
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Post by Madame » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:16 am

Panzerfaust wrote:Corlyss, Regarding the two finger symbol:
Image
Which is known as the sign of the horns or simply the horns. It is an ancient symbol. In pagan times it was used to symbolise the horned god, a pagan diety. When christianity took over europe the sign, along with many other things pagan, was said to represent satan. In modern metal culture the horns still means the pagan god to some, satan to others, and to many uninformed fans does just mean something along the lines of "rock on!"
If I recall, University of Texas fans do this same "hook 'em" at sports events.

burnitdown
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Post by burnitdown » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:44 pm

Madame wrote:If I recall, University of Texas fans do this same "hook 'em" at sports events.
Isn't that thumb and little finger, not forefinger and little finger?

I just call it "UT," since calling it a University is a bit of a stretch. It's High School II.

Opus132
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Post by Opus132 » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:55 am

Panzerfaust wrote: Well, first, metal predates prog, as metal began in the late 60s and as far as I know prog is a 70s phenomenon. Second, it is a well known fact that Black Sabath, the first heavy metal band, had been a blues band before making their style heavier and more abrasive thus inventing metal. I will give you the point that metal eventualy came to borrow a lot from prog.
King Crimson is the first prog band and their first album was released in 1969, so it looks they came about around the same time, unless you want to count Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa, which are not progressive per-se but are essentially avant-garde.

Also, Heavy Metal does have strong ties with blues, and it's extremely easy to spot the connection, if you are willing to go past the noise.

Opus132
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Post by Opus132 » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:04 am

jack stowaway wrote: In my previous post I mentioned the unabashed joy popular music fans take in their passion, and contrasted this enthusiasm with the snobbish, exclusionary attitude too often displayed by followers of classical music.
Please. Heavy Metal fans are actually just as snobbish and elitist, particularly with their attitude towards commercial popular music. Also, this 'unabashed joy' you speak off it's related to the fact popular music is essentially a juvenile art form. Popular culture it's basically kiddie culture, it's only natural for fans to act like passioned children as opposed to rational and detached adults. Classical music is serious business, no two ways about it...

Opus132
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Post by Opus132 » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:08 am

Corlyss_D wrote:If only there were less noise . . .
If it's too loud, then you are really too old. This remark is particularly pertinent considering a lot of folks who snub metal for being too noisy seem to have peculiarly bad taste when they approach popular music from other directions.

Corlyss_D
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Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:12 pm

Opus132 wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:If only there were less noise . . .
If it's too loud, then you are really too old.
It's not a matter of loud. It's the same tuneless chaos regardless of volume.

You know what Adm. Grace Hopper says about being judged too old: "Once you've been told at 40 that you're too old, it doesn't have the same impact after that."
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jack stowaway
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Post by jack stowaway » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:29 pm

Opus132 wrote:Popular culture it's basically kiddie culture, it's only natural for fans to act like passioned children as opposed to rational and detached adults. Classical music is serious business, no two ways about it...
Unfortunately, that's the kind of mindset best calculated to deter people, especially young people, from venturing into classical music. And its quite wrong. There's nothing serious about whistling an aria from 'Figaro' or lustily joining a community choir in belting out a chorus from the 'Messiah'.

It is easy to forget that music is, above all else, a communal activity, rooted in (public) performance. The lively, boisterous music salons of the 18th century with their emphasis on entertainment are as far removed from the solitary, bourgeoise, essentially private, activity that most contemporary listening has descended to as a church service is from a pop concert.

In fact, in certain respects music performances of the past had more in common with a pop concert. (I'm thinking of the hysteria that surrounded a concert by Liszt, for example. And wouldn't he approve of the unabashed adulation of the average pop music fan!)

We sometimes forget that 90% of classical music was written for money. That money may take the lofty form of patronage or commission, but a shekel is a shekel. So, in that sense at least, its a business. But then so is pop or jazz or any other art form.

You do make a good point about the snobbishness of of certain genre fans such as heavy metal afficianados. I happen to enjoy country music and am continually surprised at the disapproving gazes such an admission draws. It's the social equivalent of forgetting to zip one's flies.

Madame
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Post by Madame » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:57 am

Corlyss_D wrote:
You know what Adm. Grace Hopper says about being judged too old: "Once you've been told at 40 that you're too old, it doesn't have the same impact after that."
That is TOO wonderful! I really admired that fine woman, she had her stuff together.

I'm taking great pleasure in getting older, mainly finding out that I'm not REALLY old after all!

Opus132
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Post by Opus132 » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:25 pm

Corlyss_D wrote: It's not a matter of loud. It's the same tuneless chaos regardless of volume.
Nonsense. There's nothing 'tuneless' nor 'chaotic' about metal, it is as consonant and simple as you can get. It's still tonal after all and from a point of formal construction and technique it's often amateurish at best. Why do you think kids latch on it so quickly?

Opus132
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Post by Opus132 » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:31 pm

jack stowaway wrote: I happen to enjoy country music and am continually surprised at the disapproving gazes such an admission draws. It's the social equivalent of forgetting to zip one's flies.
You mean modern pop country? If that's the case you might as well hang yourself right now...

:lol:

Corlyss_D
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Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:05 pm

Save some rope for me, Jack. I'll join you. I really like post Randy-Travis rockified country western music.
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jack stowaway
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Post by jack stowaway » Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:13 am

Corlyss_D wrote:Save some rope for me, Jack. I'll join you. I really like post Randy-Travis rockified country western music.
Can't...speak. Noose...tight....:shock:

Corlyss_D
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Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:55 am

jack stowaway wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:Save some rope for me, Jack. I'll join you. I really like post Randy-Travis rockified country western music.
Can't...speak. Noose...tight....:shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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PhiLiz

Post by PhiLiz » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:53 pm

This is my debut here. Basically I'm here to learn, since I'm a beginner in Classical Music and I will not make many comments due to my ignorance on the genre. However, one genre I do understand and know: Metal. So, I couldn't stop myself from laugh at this thread. Sometimes, it is a good therapy to see what the "outsiders" have to say about Metal.

I'm not going to do a long text refuting all the fallacies and miss concepts about Metal that are here in thread. I think I would have to write about three more pages in posts to do so...

I don't really care of what the criticizers of Metal think about the music I worship the most. I just want to leave here some suggestions about Metal bands that can surprise you and change (or not) the idea you have about Metal:

Therion (this one, I really like)
Epica (on the other hand... this one is not one of my main preferences)
Stream of Passion (another good one)

If you have curiosity, just type Symphonic Metal in Wikipedia and you will see a list with some band of the genre.

Again, if you don't enjoy the bands, that's fine with me. Just don't make statements that can touch ridiculous... it's an advise.

Panzerfaust
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Post by Panzerfaust » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:17 pm

Welcome. PhiLiz! BTW, Burzum is my favorite band!
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Corlyss_D
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Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:43 pm

PhiLiz wrote:I'm a beginner in Classical Music and I will not make many comments due to my ignorance on the genre.
Hey, welcome, Liz. Say, I hope you don't stick to that idea. We have a lot of folks new to classical music here. We - the moderators as well as the habitues of the board - encourage you to share your enthusiasms with us. Writing about music you like and your reactions to it is one of the best ways to refine your listening, so it's not just idle chatter. So please don't be shy. Post early and often.
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burnitdown
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Post by burnitdown » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:16 pm

Burzum is not for everyone. More information:
http://www.burzum.com/

Then again, it is excellent.

Early Therion is heavily Celtic Frost-inspired, themselves a band with operatic aspirations.

Metal needs be divided into two groups:

1. Mainstream/heavy metal/hard rock
2. Underground metal/death metal/black metal

Musically, they are more dissimilar than similar.

BWV 1080
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Post by BWV 1080 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:07 pm

I really only care for thrash, Grindcore, speed and death metal. Burzum and other black metal is too boring and too sophmoric in its lyrics. And please, no neo-classical/symphonic crap. I can listen to Beethoven, so why bother with regurgitated classical gestures on electric guitar?

Sepultura, Fantomas, Godflesh, Napalm Death and Meshuggah are where it is at for me.

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