"Innocent" Arabs Congratulate Bomber's Family

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pizza
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"Innocent" Arabs Congratulate Bomber's Family

Post by pizza » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:39 am

The Jerusalem Post Internet Edition

We're very proud, bomber's family declares

Khaled Abu Toameh, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 29, 2007

The mother of Muhammad Faisal Saksak, the 21-year-old suicide bomber who carried out Monday's attack in Eilat, said she was aware of her son's plan to blow himself up and that she had wished him "good luck."

Dozens of Palestinians, chanting slogans against Israel and the US, converged on the family's home to "congratulate" them on the success of the attack.

Although Muhammad's uncles claimed he crossed the border into Israel from Jordan, PA security sources told The Jerusalem Post that he came from Egypt. They added that Muhammad's dispatchers were deliberately involving Jordan to avoid alienating the Egyptians and to create tensions between the Jordanians and Israel.

A spokesman for Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip claimed that preparations for the attack lasted seven months and that Muhammad had received training in Aqaba.

The suicide attack is seen by many Palestinians as an attempt to divert attention from the Hamas-Fatah war that has claimed the lives of 34 people over the past four days.

Fatah and Hamas leaders have repeatedly urged their followers to halt the fighting and to use their guns only against Israel.

Ruwaidah, 43, said she last saw her son on Friday morning, when he walked out of his home in the Slateen neighborhood near Beit Lahiya in the northern Gaza Strip.

"As he walked out of the house, he asked me to wish him good luck," she said. "I wished him good luck and I knew of his decision to become a martyr. Although I was aware of his intention, I did not know exactly when he was planning to carry out a martyrdom attack."

According to the mother, another one of her sons, Naim, phoned Muhammad on his cellular phone over the weekend to inquire about his whereabouts.

"When Muhammad answered, he told Naim: 'Pray for me all of you and don't try to call me again. I'm now in Jabalya refugee camp.' After that we tried to call him many times, but his phone was out of service."

The mother of nine said she was proud of her son for carrying out the suicide attack.

"I pray to Allah that Muhammad will be accepted as a shaheed [martyr]," she said shortly after hearing about the Eilat bombing. "I hope that his martyrdom will deliver a message to the Fatah and Hamas fighters to stop the fighting and direct their weapons against the one and only enemy - Israel."

Ruwaidah said she was prepared to "sacrifice" all her sons "for the sake of the Aksa Mosque and Palestine."

She added: "I hope that our politicians will stop fighting so that the blood of the martyrs will not be shed in vain."

The suicide bomber's older brother, Naim, 26, said he, too, was proud of his brother, whom he described as a member of Islamic Jihad's armed wing, the Al-Quds Brigades.

"I knew that he was going out to launch a martyrdom attack and I wished for him to become a martyr," he said. "The family is very proud of what Muhammad did. He always wanted to be a martyr and was among those who went out to fight against the Israeli soldiers each time they invaded the Gaza Strip."

Muhammad's wife, Nadia, said she shared the family's sense of "pride" for what her husband did.

"When I heard that he was martyred, I felt very proud of him," she said. "Why shouldn't I feel so when I know that he died for the sake of Palestine and Al-Aksa? It's much better than dying in the internal fighting between Fatah and Hamas."

Although the Saksak family insisted that Muhammad belonged to the Islamic Jihad, a spokesman for the armed wing of Fatah, Aksa Martyrs Brigades, claimed that his group was responsible for the attack.

The spokesman, Abu Odai, said the attack was a "natural response to Israeli violations of the hudna [temporary cease-fire], including settlement construction and excavation work under the Aksa Mosque."

Abu Odai threatened that his group would continue to launch suicide attacks against Israel.

"All options are open for striking against Israel," he told reporters in Gaza City.

Asked if his group had decided to use Jordan and Egypt as launching pads for attacking Israel, the Fatah spokesman refused to reveal how the terrorist infiltrated Israel.

He added that the attack was aimed at "reminding our brothers in Fatah and Hamas that they must direct their weapons against Israel and not at each other."

Agnes Selby
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Congratulations.

Post by Agnes Selby » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:23 am

How very pathetic and what sort of people are these? A mother not grieving for her son and being congratulated on his dying and the killing of innocent people! It is completely incomprehensible. How does such a mind function? Self preservation, the love for one's child, the sanctity of life, all sacrificed for animalistic impulses cloaked in religious beliefs.

Regards,
Agnes.

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Post by Ralph » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:43 am

The letters of mothers whose sons were kamikaze pilots reveal the same joy in their sons' sacrific. I've read many of them. It's not Islam as such, it's religion be it a fanatical devotion to warped Islam or to a godlike emperor.
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Agnes Selby
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death of young men

Post by Agnes Selby » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:45 pm

Ralph wrote:The letters of mothers whose sons were kamikaze pilots reveal the same joy in their sons' sacrific. I've read many of them. It's not Islam as such, it's religion be it a fanatical devotion to warped Islam or to a godlike emperor.
------------------

Of course you are 100% right. There is little difference between sending your son to die on the battlefield for the "glory of king and country" or having him blow himself up in a marketplace. There is a moral dilemma here, however, the marketplace is not full of enemy soldiers but of unsuspecting civilians.

Regards,
Agnes.
-----------------------

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Re: death of young men

Post by Ralph » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:01 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:
Ralph wrote:The letters of mothers whose sons were kamikaze pilots reveal the same joy in their sons' sacrific. I've read many of them. It's not Islam as such, it's religion be it a fanatical devotion to warped Islam or to a godlike emperor.
------------------

Of course you are 100% right. There is little difference between sending your son to die on the battlefield for the "glory of king and country" or having him blow himself up in a marketplace. There is a moral dilemma here, however, the marketplace is not full of enemy soldiers but of unsuspecting civilians.

Regards,
Agnes.
-----------------------
*****

That is correct. But in reality many conflicts have combatants whose ideology does not distinguish between civilians and the military. And however upsetting Islamic terrorist attacks are, the casualty list is a bare fraction of what countries like Japan inflicted on helpless civilians. Start with the Nanking Massacre as just one example.
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pizza
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Re: death of young men

Post by pizza » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:04 pm

Ralph wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote:
Ralph wrote:The letters of mothers whose sons were kamikaze pilots reveal the same joy in their sons' sacrific. I've read many of them. It's not Islam as such, it's religion be it a fanatical devotion to warped Islam or to a godlike emperor.
------------------

Of course you are 100% right. There is little difference between sending your son to die on the battlefield for the "glory of king and country" or having him blow himself up in a marketplace. There is a moral dilemma here, however, the marketplace is not full of enemy soldiers but of unsuspecting civilians.

Regards,
Agnes.
-----------------------
*****

That is correct. But in reality many conflicts have combatants whose ideology does not distinguish between civilians and the military. And however upsetting Islamic terrorist attacks are, the casualty list is a bare fraction of what countries like Japan inflicted on helpless civilians. Start with the Nanking Massacre as just one example.
If you go far enough back in history, you can also find plenty of examples of Islamic slaughter of helpless civilians in major numbers. The Armenian genocide by the Turks wasn't that long ago.

Unlike Islamic terrorists who pretend to be the same civilians as those whom they murder, Japanese Kamikaze pilots wore Japanese uniforms and flew Japanese aircraft with Japanese insignia. They made no pretense at being anything other than Japanese military personnel and American sailors had no difficulty identifying them as such.

Ted

Post by Ted » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:41 pm

Ralph
You (unlike Pizza) are the most open-minded of people—in this case though, where you are obviously going out of your way not to paint all Muslims with the same brush, I have to agree with Pizza—There’s little contrast or link to Japanese aggression during WWII

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Post by Ralph » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:51 pm

Ted wrote:Ralph
You (unlike Pizza) are the most open-minded of people—in this case though, where you are obviously going out of your way not to paint all Muslims with the same brush, I have to agree with Pizza—There’s little contrast or link to Japanese aggression during WWII
*****

The point I made is that slaughter of civilians has been a factor in wars fought by aggressor nations of which Japan was once a star. Of course kamikaze pilots were only targeted against our warships - anything else would have been ridiculous. But the savagery of Japanese troops against civilians makes the actual toll inflicted by contemporary terrorists slight. Read the late Iris Chang's "The Rape of Nanking."
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Post by piston » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:59 pm

Several years ago, I ventured in class on what I can now refer to as a treacherous path: trying to provide some kind of historical context for the militarization of Japan well before World War II. A Japanese student who was always extremely quiet and invariably respectful, started to shake her head negatively as I went there. There could be no rational explanation in her mind, not even contextual, to how her nation became a military monster. On that day, I learned a valuable lesson, all the more valuable once I heard from an American student in Japan how respect for educators is sacrosanct there.
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

Ted

Post by Ted » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:25 pm

I know of said book. And pictures don’t lie, but a uniform is not a disguise which was Pizza’s point--not to negate yours

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Post by Ralph » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:41 pm

Ted wrote:I know of said book. And pictures don’t lie, but a uniform is not a disguise which was Pizza’s point--not to negate yours
****

No, and when soldiers go in disguise they may be executed when captured.
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Post by burnitdown » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:53 pm

Ralph wrote:It's not Islam as such, it's religion be it a fanatical devotion to warped Islam or to a godlike emperor.
This isn't about religion -- it's a cultural/ethnic war.

Support Israel, and get our troops out of the nutty region :)

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Post by RebLem » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:04 am

Ted wrote:Ralph
You (unlike Pizza) are the most open-minded of people—in this case though, where you are obviously going out of your way not to paint all Muslims with the same brush, I have to agree with Pizza—There’s little contrast or link to Japanese aggression during WWII
Still, I think it is worth making the point that those who feel aggrieved, for whatever valid or invalid reason, often look for an excuse to behave in absolutely disgraceful fashion, and that they will find their excuses in anything they can--religion, nationalism, family honor, whatever.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
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"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Post by pizza » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:31 am

Ted wrote:I know of said book. And pictures don’t lie . . . . .
This URL isn't intended to apply to that book, but rather to the idea that "pictures don't lie". Those who print and publish them sometimes do.

http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/

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Post by Ralph » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:16 am

pizza wrote:
Ted wrote:I know of said book. And pictures don’t lie . . . . .
This URL isn't intended to apply to that book, but rather to the idea that "pictures don't lie". Those who print and publish them sometimes do.

http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/
*****

That's for sure. Some years ago Yale University Press published a book of A/B photos showing how Stalin erased from historical memory prominent men who were liquidated.
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Ted

Post by Ted » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:45 am

Pizza Wrote:
This URL isn't intended to apply to that book, but rather to the idea that "pictures don't lie". Those who print and publish them sometimes do.

While the “fishy” “green helmeted man” gives me pause, the first example with the smoke enhanced is hardly “Doctoring the News” I walk away from that site thinking not about Reuters’ photojournalism practices but rather the reality of life (or the taking of it) in that part of the world

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Post by pizza » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:54 am

Ted wrote:Pizza Wrote:
This URL isn't intended to apply to that book, but rather to the idea that "pictures don't lie". Those who print and publish them sometimes do.

While the “fishy” “green helmeted man” gives me pause, the first example with the smoke enhanced is hardly “Doctoring the News” I walk away from that site thinking not about Reuters’ photojournalism practices but rather the reality of life (or the taking of it) in that part of the world
When caught with its hand in the cookie jar, Reuters fired the photographer who doctored the smoke photo.

Reuters is hardly a reliable source for the reality of life in the mid-east. That's a reality anyone viewing the article for its content can understand.

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Post by burnitdown » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:49 pm

piston wrote:Several years ago, I ventured in class on what I can now refer to as a treacherous path: trying to provide some kind of historical context for the militarization of Japan well before World War II. A Japanese student who was always extremely quiet and invariably respectful, started to shake her head negatively as I went there. There could be no rational explanation in her mind, not even contextual, to how her nation became a military monster. On that day, I learned a valuable lesson, all the more valuable once I heard from an American student in Japan how respect for educators is sacrosanct there.
Or maybe they simply wanted to stave off modern society with a nationalist state, and were surrounded by enemies like China, who the US will have to fight in coming generations?

History goes back before Christ, and it's worth reading!

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Re: Congratulations.

Post by Corlyss_D » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:26 am

Agnes Selby wrote:How very pathetic and what sort of people are these? A mother not grieving for her son
If you were to bet that these statements are all for show, you probably would win. It's usually propaganda to bolster the resolve of families and future shaheed bombers.
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