French court bans pork soup service by right wing charity

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RebLem
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French court bans pork soup service by right wing charity

Post by RebLem » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am

French court bars pork soup for the homeless

EJP [European Jewish Press] Updated: 09/Jan/2007 17:18

PARIS (EJP)--- France’s top administrative court ruled Friday that an extreme-right humanitarian group cannot serve pork soup to the homeless, saying the charity was discriminating against those like Muslims and Jews who don’t eat pork because of their faith.

The court criticised as a racist ploy the group’s decision to exclude observant Muslims and Jews.

The group, called “Solidarité des Français” or Solidarity of the French, has managed to havel last week two decrees banning the handouts overturned in a Paris court, despite protests from the city’s Socialist mayor Bertrand Delanoe.

Discriminatory goal

The State Council’s judge, which was seized by the French interior ministry, ruled that the group had shown "a clearly discriminatory goal" with its charity.

The judge upheld a decision by Paris police to refuse permits to the group, claiming such handouts could spark threaten public order and angry reactions from would-be beneficiaries.

According to the ministry’s representative in court, Jean-Francois Boutet, the group’s xenophobic aims are made clear by a sentence from its website that reads: "No soup, no desert: [sic!] ours before others."

But the group’s lawyer Bruno Le Griel rejected the charge, arguing that no Muslim or Jewish organisation had so far complained and insisting the soup was a traditional popular fare in France.

"When Muslim people refuse to eat pork, we offer them something else," he said, before adding: "Those who do not want to eat pork can always turn towards Muslim charities."

France is home to more than 5 million Muslims and some 600,000 Jews. Both Islam and Judaism prohibit the consumption of pork.

http://www.ejpress.org/article/12759
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Post by BWV 1080 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:59 am

I thought there were only homeless people in America. France is a socialist utopia, how come there are homeless?

Anyway, how many homeless Jews are there? Anyone ever see a Jewish person panhandling? About as rare as seeing Hispanics looking for a handout. In a country with proper civil liberties, any group ought to be able to distribute food as they please. If the KKK wanted to give food only to white homeless people, that would be their right here.

So must any food offered by a charity be now both Halal and Kosher? After all it is not just pork that offends Muslim dietary laws.

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Post by RebLem » Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:20 am

BWV 1080 wrote:I thought there were only homeless people in America. France is a socialist utopia, how come there are homeless?

Anyway, how many homeless Jews are there? Anyone ever see a Jewish person panhandling? About as rare as seeing Hispanics looking for a handout. In a country with proper civil liberties, any group ought to be able to distribute food as they please. If the KKK wanted to give food only to white homeless people, that would be their right here
You've obviously never seen Vagabond aka Sans toit ni loi, a 1985 film by Agnes Varda. Wikipedia says this, in part--

Vagabond is a film directed by Agnès Varda, released in 1985, featuring Sandrine Bonnaire. The original French title is subtitled Sans toit ni loi, which means 'Without Roof or Rule'. It describes the story of a young woman, a vagabond, who is found frozen in a ditch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagabond_%28film%29

As for rights, our approach would be to allow groups to do this, but to deny them the tax breaks that non-discriminatory groups would get for such charity work. In a country where a VAT is the primary tax, however, that is not possible, and outright repression is the only alternative, which is one of many reasons why we ought not to replace our income tax with a VAT, Senator Lindsey Graham to the contrary notwithstanding.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Re: French court bans pork soup service by right wing charit

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:39 am

RebLem wrote:French court bars pork soup for the homeless

EJP [European Jewish Press] Updated: 09/Jan/2007 17:18

PARIS (EJP)--- France’s top administrative court ruled Friday that an extreme-right humanitarian group cannot serve pork soup to the homeless, saying the charity was discriminating against those like Muslims and Jews who don’t eat pork because of their faith.

The court criticised as a racist ploy the group’s decision to exclude observant Muslims and Jews.

The group, called “Solidarité des Français” or Solidarity of the French, has managed to havel last week two decrees banning the handouts overturned in a Paris court, despite protests from the city’s Socialist mayor Bertrand Delanoe.

Discriminatory goal

The State Council’s judge, which was seized by the French interior ministry, ruled that the group had shown "a clearly discriminatory goal" with its charity.

The judge upheld a decision by Paris police to refuse permits to the group, claiming such handouts could spark threaten public order and angry reactions from would-be beneficiaries.

According to the ministry’s representative in court, Jean-Francois Boutet, the group’s xenophobic aims are made clear by a sentence from its website that reads: "No soup, no desert: [sic!] ours before others."

But the group’s lawyer Bruno Le Griel rejected the charge, arguing that no Muslim or Jewish organisation had so far complained and insisting the soup was a traditional popular fare in France.

"When Muslim people refuse to eat pork, we offer them something else," he said, before adding: "Those who do not want to eat pork can always turn towards Muslim charities."

France is home to more than 5 million Muslims and some 600,000 Jews. Both Islam and Judaism prohibit the consumption of pork.

http://www.ejpress.org/article/12759
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Post by Ralph » Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:46 am

I think the time has come for nonbigoted Americans to demand an end to Pork Barrel legislation!!!!!!!
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Post by BWV 1080 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:46 pm

Ralph wrote:I think the time has come for nonbigoted Americans to demand an end to Pork Barrel legislation!!!!!!!
Either that or mandate that all soup kitchen be Halal.

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Post by RebLem » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:10 pm

Seventh Day Adventist soup kitchens are perhaps the only ones that wouldn't offend anyone.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
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Here's another recent one my friends....

Post by keaggy220 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:27 pm

BWV 1080 wrote:I thought there were only homeless people in America. France is a socialist utopia, how come there are homeless?

Anyway, how many homeless Jews are there? Anyone ever see a Jewish person panhandling? About as rare as seeing Hispanics looking for a handout. In a country with proper civil liberties, any group ought to be able to distribute food as they please. If the KKK wanted to give food only to white homeless people, that would be their right here.

So must any food offered by a charity be now both Halal and Kosher? After all it is not just pork that offends Muslim dietary laws.
French health minister seeks nap study
Wed Jan 31, 8:25 AM ET
The French already enjoy a 35-hour work week and generous vacation. Now the health minister wants to look into whether workers should be allowed to sleep on the job.

France launched plans this week to spend $9 million this year to improve public awareness about sleeping troubles. About one in three French people suffer from them, the ministry says.

Fifty-six percent of French complain that a poor night's sleep has affected their job performance, according to the ministry.

"Why not a nap at work? It can't be a taboo subject," Health Minister Xavier Bertrand said Monday. He called for further studies and said he would promote on-the-job naps if they prove useful.

France's state-run health insurance provider will send letters explaining the importance of good sleep. The Health Ministry's Web site offers tips on how best to get a good night's rest.

The ministry's online "Passport to Sleep" recommends cutting down on coffee, tea, colas, and athletic activity after 8 p.m., shunning TV time or working late in the evening, and listening better to the body's own sleep signals, such as yawning.

Bertrand said sleepiness causes 20 percent to 30 percent of highway accidents across France each year.

France must be a utopia if this is what the politicians are grappling with...

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Post by RebLem » Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:06 pm

Lots of Chicago cops who spend much of their shifts sleeping in their patrol cars off to the side on the lower level of Wacker Drive would love to hear about this.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Post by Donald Isler » Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:18 pm

I think they should be able to serve whatever kind of soup they like, especially since they have something else to offer those who don't eat pork. This is too much bureaucracy for me, too!

But if anyone thinks that Jewish poverty doesn't exist anymore, I can send them some of the mail I get from numerous Jewish organizations that try to care for the Jewish poor here (yes, even in New York), in Israel, and elsewhere.

On the whole, the Jewish community does a rather good job caring for its indigent, and, believe me, these organzations are not lacking for clients.
Donald Isler

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Post by jack stowaway » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:58 pm

RebLem wrote: You've obviously never seen Vagabond aka Sans toit ni loi, a 1985 film by Agnes Varda. Wikipedia says this, in part--

Vagabond is a film directed by Agnès Varda, released in 1985, featuring Sandrine Bonnaire. The original French title is subtitled Sans toit ni loi, which means 'Without Roof or Rule'. It describes the story of a young woman, a vagabond, who is found frozen in a ditch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagabond_%28film%29
I remember the film well. It haunted me for sometime afterwards. One critic aptly described it as a chilling study of a sociopathic personality who remains untouched by ordinary human sympathy. That the protagonist is a woman makes it even more shocking.

The central character ghosts through life as a literal and metaphorical vagabond, one with absolutely no ties to humanity. The stark depiction of nihilism is unrelenting and utterly depressing.

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Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:42 pm

I wonder what would happen if someone lined Israel's "security fence" with pork soup...
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pork soup

Post by Agnes Selby » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:06 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:I wonder what would happen if someone lined Israel's "security fence" with pork soup...
---------------

Which side of the fence are you referring to? :lol:

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soup

Post by Agnes Selby » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:14 pm

[quote="BWV 1080"]I thought there were only homeless people in America. France is a socialist utopia, how come there are homeless?

Anyway, how many homeless Jews are there? Anyone ever see a Jewish person panhandling?
-----------------------


That was a cheap anti-Semitic remark from someone so ill informed.

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------------------------

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Re: soup

Post by BWV 1080 » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:45 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:
BWV 1080 wrote:I thought there were only homeless people in America. France is a socialist utopia, how come there are homeless?

Anyway, how many homeless Jews are there? Anyone ever see a Jewish person panhandling?
-----------------------


That was a cheap anti-Semitic remark from someone so ill informed.

Agnes Selby
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If I am ill informed, perhaps it is a rich anti-semetic remark. My point was with 600K jews in France total, what are the odds of one being homeless and showing up in the fascist soupline?

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Re: soup

Post by Ralph » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:17 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:
BWV 1080 wrote:I thought there were only homeless people in America. France is a socialist utopia, how come there are homeless?

Anyway, how many homeless Jews are there? Anyone ever see a Jewish person panhandling?
-----------------------


That was a cheap anti-Semitic remark from someone so ill informed.

Agnes Selby
------------------------
*****

An emphatic YES!

While it is true that in the U.S. there is a strong network of Jewish organizations that often supplement public agencies, destitute Jews, homeless Jews, Jews with AIDS rejected by their (observant) communities, Jewish women homeless because of domestic violence ignored by their (observant) communities - these all happen and I have personally and professionally encountered them.
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Re: pork soup

Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:28 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:
living_stradivarius wrote:I wonder what would happen if someone lined Israel's "security fence" with pork soup...
---------------

Which side of the fence are you referring to? :lol:

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Well if you lined both sides with it, Famous Daves could occupy the territory... problem solved.
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Post by Stonebraker » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:48 pm

BWV 1080 wrote:I thought there were only homeless people in America. France is a socialist utopia, how come there are homeless?

Anyway, how many homeless Jews are there? Anyone ever see a Jewish person panhandling? About as rare as seeing Hispanics looking for a handout. In a country with proper civil liberties, any group ought to be able to distribute food as they please. If the KKK wanted to give food only to white homeless people, that would be their right here.

So must any food offered by a charity be now both Halal and Kosher? After all it is not just pork that offends Muslim dietary laws.
So funny, on so many levels.
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Post by jbuck919 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:26 pm

I've been trying to figure out just what this "commonly served" pork soup is. I know a thing or two about culinary matters, and I have never heard of a "traditional" French recipe for pork soup, nor can I find one online (cassoulet does not count). Among other things, a French soup has to be based on a stock, and they only recognize chicken, veal, and beef as bases for stock. Too bad good old Nigel is not still with us. :)

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Re: French court bans pork soup service by right wing charit

Post by burnitdown » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:41 pm

RebLem wrote:The court criticised as a racist ploy the group’s decision to exclude observant Muslims and Jews.
Don't those belong in Arabia and Israel? Europe for Europeans!

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Re: French court bans pork soup service by right wing charit

Post by piston » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:55 pm

burnitdown wrote:
RebLem wrote:The court criticised as a racist ploy the group’s decision to exclude observant Muslims and Jews.
Don't those belong in Arabia and Israel? Europe for Europeans!
And America to Native Americans?
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Post by BWV 1080 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:07 pm

jbuck919 wrote:I've been trying to figure out just what this "commonly served" pork soup is. I know a thing or two about culinary matters, and I have never heard of a "traditional" French recipe for pork soup, nor can I find one online (cassoulet does not count). Among other things, a French soup has to be based on a stock, and they only recognize chicken, veal, and beef as bases for stock. Too bad good old Nigel is not still with us. :)
There are plenty of ham-based soups

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Post by Ralph » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:34 pm

How about tuna based soups?
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Post by living_stradivarius » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:54 pm

And what about orthodox vegans?!
Ralph wrote:I think the time has come for nonbigoted Americans to demand an end to Pork Barrel legislation!!!!!!!
LOL I can't believe I missed that. It's so lame it's funny :lol:
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Post by jbuck919 » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:44 am

Ralph wrote:How about tuna based soups?
There's one with a broth based on Diet Coke.

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Post by lmpower » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:07 pm

In China you can't even have a pig in an advertisement for fear of offending the twenty million Muslims in the country.

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Post by burnitdown » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:13 pm

What are Muslims doing in Europe?

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Europe

Post by Agnes Selby » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:16 am

burnitdown wrote:What are Muslims doing in Europe?
-----------

Colonising :?:
-----------------------

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Post by Reed » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:33 pm

"What are Muslims doing in Europe?"

What are bigots doing on this board? Go to the KKK board instead.

By the way, Muslims have been in Europe since at least the middle ages in Spain.

Go read a history book.

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Post by Opus132 » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:38 pm

Reed wrote:"What are Muslims doing in Europe?"

What are bigots doing on this board? Go to the KKK board instead.

By the way, Muslims have been in Europe since at least the middle ages in Spain.

Go read a history book.
The difference is that up until recently Europeans were not the softened, bored, self loathing, cowardly, politically corrected liberal pansies that they are today.

And for the record, the moors weren't just simply dwelling in Spain, they owned that country until Europeans had enough strength to kick them out. The only reason why the Arabs never pushed their armies further north during the Islamic conquest is that they had no reason to. The fact Europe stood in semi-barbarism during the middle ages is the reason it wasn't seized by the eastern empires. The idea of a peaceful Islam is a myth.

Speaking of bigots:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

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Post by Reed » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:39 am

I never said medieval (or modern) Islam was all peace and love.

Thank goodness Europe never colonized anyone, or started any wars.

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Post by Opus132 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:44 pm

Reed wrote: Thank goodness Europe never colonized anyone, or started any wars.
Did i mention self-loathing? :lol:

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Post by Reed » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:32 pm

I don't see what throwing non-sequitors at me has to do with anything.

I was responding to burnitdown, and his extremely racist statement, "What are Moslems doing in Europe?' A game I like to play when I see such statements, is, turn it around, substitute another group, and see how it sounds.

Take another group of near east origins: "What are Jews doing in Europe," and one can see how hateful such a statement is.

That's all. It's not an attack on Europe, Christians, or a belief that all Moslems are Good Guys. Just a little perspective.

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Post by Barry » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:38 pm

Reed wrote:
Take another group of near east origins: "What are Jews doing in Europe," and one can see how hateful such a statement is.
Well I can tell you what they aren't doing in Europe. They aren't demanding that long-held European customs and culture be changed so that they're in accordance with Jewish law. And they aren't rioting and turning violent every time some European law maker, journalist or cartoonist does something that could be interpreted as offensive to Judaism. Now reverse that and you'll get what many Muslims in Europe are doing.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

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http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related

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Post by Reed » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:15 pm

I actually agree with you more than you realize. I just don't like the generalization, "Muslims don't belong in Europe." (Burnitdown said, "What are Muslims doing in Europe?" You didn't. I was responding to that, only.) We're talking about millions of people, and perhaps thousands who are problematic.

I mean, should I tell my (peaceful) Muslim co-workers and neighbors and customers that they don't belong in America? What gives me, or any of us, that right, as long as they are law-abiding?

I don't want to see terroism, or secular states bending over backwards to assert any kind of religious dogma. In fact, even the Christian theocrats in America scare me, and they, overwhelmingly, aren't violent about the imposition of their religion on others, as many of the fundie Muslims are.

I think, and have said on other threads here, that Islamic (and Christian) fundies are fighting a losing battle, trying to send us back into the middle ages. But that doesn't mean the fanatics aren't going to cause a lot of problems, including deaths, trying to resist the modern world.

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