Kagan

[Ralph]

Washington - President Obama to Name Jewish Woman Elena Kagan to U.S. Supreme Court
Published on: May 9th, 2010 at 10:28 PM
News Source: VIN News/ NBC News

Washington - President Barack Obama will nominate U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan to serve as an associate justice on the U.S. Supreme Court, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported late Sunday night.

Kagan, 50, served as the Dean of Harvard Law School from 2003 to 2009. Obama nominated her to serve in her current post as solicitor general early in 2009, and she won Senate confirmation by a vote of 61-31. She is the first woman to serve as solicitor general of the United States.

She was widely viewed as a front-runner when Obama was considering candidates for a Supreme Court opening last year, but the president ultimately chose Sonia Sotomayor for the job.

Some liberal critics have said that Kagan's views on executive power and the treatment of terrorist detainees are too conservative.

If confirmed, Kagan will fill the vacancy left by retiring Justice John Paul Stevens. Stevens, 90, announced his decision to retire on April 9 after nearly 35 years of service on the high court.

Kagan was born to a Jewish family in New York City. She is the middle of three children of Gloria Gittelman Kagan and Robert Kagan.

If Kagan is nominated and confirmed, the Supreme Court will be made up entirely of Catholics and Jews.

[MarkC]

Just wondering: Why would "Jewish" be in the headline? I guess this was in some religiously-oriented publication. (I'm not happy either with that last line of the article. It's an interesting factoid but IMO doesn't deserve mention in such an article.)

I would have liked any of the contenders, and by all accounts she'll be good. I was hoping for one of the "more liberal" ones, although...... it's impossible to know how a Supreme Court justice will turn out. I mean, look at John Paul Stevens. Or Blackmun. Or Souter. Or Earl Warren, for that matter. And, Byron White was picked by JFK, and look at what kind of justice he was. You never know.

Plus, it's more than just how the person will vote. It's how they relate to the other justices and affect their votes and forge alliances. You never know.

[Ralph]

It's from a Jewish news service. It was the first bulletin I got. The Times and other media have posted the same report now.

[Chalkperson]

I thought that Ralph was baiting Saul and had inserted Jewish into the Headline...

[NancyElla]

The important thing about Kagan, from my point of view, is that she's an oboist. There simply cannot be too many oboists in the greater DC area to suit me. But for a humorous take on the unique qualifications of an oboist for a position as supreme court justice, see this article from the LA Times. Although it concerned the possible nomination of Diane Wood, all the oboe stuff transfers perfectly to Kagan.http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 656.column The author, herself an oboist, claims:

And speaking for myself and so many others in the oboe community, I don't think it's an overstatement to suggest that even if Wood had no judicial experience at all, even if she'd never even gone to law school — heck, even if she were a fifth-grader squawking out "Ode to Joy" on a plastic Bundy — she'd still probably be more qualified for the Supreme Court bench than anyone else in the pool. Why? Because oboists may vary in talent, discipline, ethnicity, gender and taste in unfashionable clothes, but we all have one thing in common: We're just about the most judgmental people on the face of the Earth. Ergo, one of us should sit on the highest court in the nation.

[MarkC]

The important thing about Kagan, from my point of view, is that she's an oboist.....

Are you sure???

I think only the other one (Wood) plays the oboe.

(I was more for her even without knowing that.)

BTW.....I see that Stephen Colbert is being quoted in some places as saying Kagan plays oboe, but if he did say it, I think he was wrong.

[jbuck919]

If Kagan is nominated and confirmed, the Supreme Court will be made up entirely of Catholics and Jews.

Makes sense. They're the two big guilt groups.

[NancyElla]

The important thing about Kagan, from my point of view, is that she's an oboist.....

Are you sure???

I think only the other one (Wood) plays the oboe.

(I was more for her even without knowing that.)

BTW.....I see that Stephen Colbert is being quoted in some places as saying Kagan plays oboe, but if he did say it, I think he was wrong.

Sigh, another late-night, addle-brained bit of wishful thinking. You are correct. Only Wood plays oboe (or if Kagan does, she wisely keeps it a deep, dark secret). I'm not sure how I was misled--no doubt, I was all too happy to believe it. I mean, we chamber music players are a small, misunderstood minority. Wouldn't it be great if we had one of our own on the court? Maybe next time.

[jbuck919]

The important thing about Kagan, from my point of view, is that she's an oboist.....

Are you sure???

I think only the other one (Wood) plays the oboe.

(I was more for her even without knowing that.)

BTW.....I see that Stephen Colbert is being quoted in some places as saying Kagan plays oboe, but if he did say it, I think he was wrong.

Sigh, another late-night, addle-brained bit of wishful thinking. You are correct. Only Wood plays oboe (or if Kagan does, she wisely keeps it a deep, dark secret). I'm not sure how I was misled--no doubt, I was all too happy to believe it. I mean, we chamber music players are a small, misunderstood minority. Wouldn't it be great if we had one of our own on the court? Maybe next time.

For the time being we're going to have to be satisfied with Scalia blowing his own horn.

[NancyElla]

Colbert says the only instrument Scalia plays is "The Clarence Thomas".

[SaulChanukah]

Washington - President Obama to Name Jewish Woman Elena Kagan to U.S. Supreme Court
Published on: May 9th, 2010 at 10:28 PM
News Source: VIN News/ NBC News

Washington - President Barack Obama will nominate U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan to serve as an associate justice on the U.S. Supreme Court, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported late Sunday night.

Kagan, 50, served as the Dean of Harvard Law School from 2003 to 2009. Obama nominated her to serve in her current post as solicitor general early in 2009, and she won Senate confirmation by a vote of 61-31. She is the first woman to serve as solicitor general of the United States.

She was widely viewed as a front-runner when Obama was considering candidates for a Supreme Court opening last year, but the president ultimately chose Sonia Sotomayor for the job.

Some liberal critics have said that Kagan's views on executive power and the treatment of terrorist detainees are too conservative.

If confirmed, Kagan will fill the vacancy left by retiring Justice John Paul Stevens. Stevens, 90, announced his decision to retire on April 9 after nearly 35 years of service on the high court.

Kagan was born to a Jewish family in New York City. She is the middle of three children of Gloria Gittelman Kagan and Robert Kagan.

If Kagan is nominated and confirmed, the Supreme Court will be made up entirely of Catholics and Jews.

I wonder if her religion played any role for Obama to pick her, or the fact that she has 5 different law degrees was the real motive...

What do you think Ralph?

[MarkC]

.....I think only the other one (Wood) plays the oboe......

Sigh.....You are correct.....

Thanks for the correction! (I would have loved them both to be oboists too!)

I have a 'method' about things like this, and it's pretty reliable.

It's very simple: When something seems to be extremely improbable, it's usually not true, even if stated as fact, and no matter by whom. (Including by me.)

There were two separate things which, taken together, made me think this was extremely improbable:

-- To begin with, it's pretty improbable that two random people not known as musicians would both play the oboe. But what put it over the top was:

-- Because of reason #1, if these two justices who were at the top of the short-list for Supreme Court justice were both oboists, people like us probably would have been hearing plenty about it -- and we haven't been.

A lot of my work involves knowing which things to take as true and which to take just as "maybe," so I'm constantly using this little principle.

[Ralph]

The important thing about Kagan, from my point of view, is that she's an oboist. There simply cannot be too many oboists in the greater DC area to suit me. But for a humorous take on the unique qualifications of an oboist for a position as supreme court justice, see this article from the LA Times. Although it concerned the possible nomination of Diane Wood, all the oboe stuff transfers perfectly to Kagan.http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 656.column The author, herself an oboist, claims:

And speaking for myself and so many others in the oboe community, I don't think it's an overstatement to suggest that even if Wood had no judicial experience at all, even if she'd never even gone to law school — heck, even if she were a fifth-grader squawking out "Ode to Joy" on a plastic Bundy — she'd still probably be more qualified for the Supreme Court bench than anyone else in the pool. Why? Because oboists may vary in talent, discipline, ethnicity, gender and taste in unfashionable clothes, but we all have one thing in common: We're just about the most judgmental people on the face of the Earth. Ergo, one of us should sit on the highest court in the nation.

*****

You might want to access Kornstein, "The Influence of Oboists on the Development of American Constitutional Law," 38 Classical Music Law Review 197 (1999).

[MarkC]

You might want to access Kornstein, "The Influence of Oboists on the Development of American Constitutional Law," 38 Classical Music Law Review 197 (1999).

OK, now you're making us call upon our sense of probabilities.....

[Ralph]

Washington - President Obama to Name Jewish Woman Elena Kagan to U.S. Supreme Court
Published on: May 9th, 2010 at 10:28 PM
News Source: VIN News/ NBC News

Washington - President Barack Obama will nominate U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan to serve as an associate justice on the U.S. Supreme Court, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported late Sunday night.

Kagan, 50, served as the Dean of Harvard Law School from 2003 to 2009. Obama nominated her to serve in her current post as solicitor general early in 2009, and she won Senate confirmation by a vote of 61-31. She is the first woman to serve as solicitor general of the United States.

She was widely viewed as a front-runner when Obama was considering candidates for a Supreme Court opening last year, but the president ultimately chose Sonia Sotomayor for the job.

Some liberal critics have said that Kagan's views on executive power and the treatment of terrorist detainees are too conservative.

If confirmed, Kagan will fill the vacancy left by retiring Justice John Paul Stevens. Stevens, 90, announced his decision to retire on April 9 after nearly 35 years of service on the high court.

Kagan was born to a Jewish family in New York City. She is the middle of three children of Gloria Gittelman Kagan and Robert Kagan.

If Kagan is nominated and confirmed, the Supreme Court will be made up entirely of Catholics and Jews.

I wonder if her religion played any role for Obama to pick her, or the fact that she has 5 different law degrees was the real motive...

What do you think Ralph?

*****

I don't think religion was a consideration although it was and is a fact. Saul, you wouldn't know this but when the second Jew was appointed to the Supreme Court it was after a covert campaign to discredit him based on his religion but Cardozo proved to be a fine justice. The first Jew, Brandeis, was also the subject of a discreet but serious whispering campaign both before his confirmation and after.

When Cardozo was on the bench, there were two Jews and two New Yorkers so the balance today isn;'t radically different than in the past but the importance of either religion or regional representation is not what it once was.

[NancyElla]

Yes, the sheer statistical improbability of two legal scholar-oboists being considered for the big court at the same time should have led me to double-check. Ralph, is that a real article in a real journal? I'll sic my favorite lawyer-musicians on it. May I could make it a competition, and the first to get the article to me wins a cd. Let's see, there's a violinist, a bassoonist, and a horn player....

Now that I'm recovering from my disappointment in Ms. Kagan's lack of oboe skills, I should add that her legal and personal qualifications appear formidable. I'm looking forward to learning more about her. It would be nice if there were no smear campaigns against her, but that is probably an unrealistic hope.

[MarkC]

.....Ralph, is that a real article in a real journal?.....

I think your sense of probability failed you again!
But I must admit I had to think about it for a few seconds myself.

[NancyElla]

Just one disappointment after another....

[SaulChanukah]

Washington - President Obama to Name Jewish Woman Elena Kagan to U.S. Supreme Court
Published on: May 9th, 2010 at 10:28 PM
News Source: VIN News/ NBC News

Washington - President Barack Obama will nominate U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan to serve as an associate justice on the U.S. Supreme Court, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported late Sunday night.

Kagan, 50, served as the Dean of Harvard Law School from 2003 to 2009. Obama nominated her to serve in her current post as solicitor general early in 2009, and she won Senate confirmation by a vote of 61-31. She is the first woman to serve as solicitor general of the United States.

She was widely viewed as a front-runner when Obama was considering candidates for a Supreme Court opening last year, but the president ultimately chose Sonia Sotomayor for the job.

Some liberal critics have said that Kagan's views on executive power and the treatment of terrorist detainees are too conservative.

If confirmed, Kagan will fill the vacancy left by retiring Justice John Paul Stevens. Stevens, 90, announced his decision to retire on April 9 after nearly 35 years of service on the high court.

Kagan was born to a Jewish family in New York City. She is the middle of three children of Gloria Gittelman Kagan and Robert Kagan.

If Kagan is nominated and confirmed, the Supreme Court will be made up entirely of Catholics and Jews.

I wonder if her religion played any role for Obama to pick her, or the fact that she has 5 different law degrees was the real motive...

What do you think Ralph?

*****

I don't think religion was a consideration although it was and is a fact. Saul, you wouldn't know this but when the second Jew was appointed to the Supreme Court it was after a covert campaign to discredit him based on his religion but Cardozo proved to be a fine justice. The first Jew, Brandeis, was also the subject of a discreet but serious whispering campaign both before his confirmation and after.

When Cardozo was on the bench, there were two Jews and two New Yorkers so the balance today isn;'t radically different than in the past but the importance of either religion or regional representation is not what it once was.

Now the press is bickering that there are 3 Jews and 6 Catholics in the Supreme Court, while no Protestants...

They always need something to argue and complain about...

[jbuck919]

Now the press is bickering that there are 3 Jews and 6 Catholics in the Supreme Court, while no Protestants...

Or Muslims.

[SaulChanukah]

Now the press is bickering that there are 3 Jews and 6 Catholics in the Supreme Court, while no Protestants...

Or Muslims.

All I have heard was about Protestants...

[Guitarist]

I think we can rest assured that no one will offer her sex in exchange for a favorable vote...

[Barry]

I think we can rest assured that no one will offer her sex in exchange for a favorable vote...

Boo.

Hiss.

[SaulChanukah]

Obama's Supreme pick has love affair with socialism
You won't believe how Kagan felt about radicals in America

Posted: May 10, 2010
2:23 pm Eastern


By Aaron Klein
WorldNetDaily


NEW YORK – In her undergraduate thesis at Princeton, President Obama's nominee for the Supreme Court, Elena Kagan, lamented the decline of socialism in the country as "sad" for those who still hope to "change America."

Titled "To the Final Conflict: Socialism in New York City, 1900-1933," Kagan opined that infighting caused the decline of the early socialist movement. She asked why the "greatness" of socialism was not reemerging as a major political force.

"In our own times, a coherent socialist movement is nowhere to be found in the United States. Americans are more likely to speak of a golden past than of a golden future, of capitalism's glories than of socialism's greatness," wrote Kagan, Obama's solicitor general.

"Why, in a society by no means perfect, has a radical party never attained the status of a major political force? Why, in particular, did the socialist movement never become an alternative to the nation's established parties?" she asked.

In the senior thesis, Kagan, who graduated from Princeton in 1981, addressed infighting in the socialist movement.

"Through its own internal feuding, then, the SP [Socialist Party] exhausted itself forever and further reduced labor radicalism in New York to the position of marginality and insignificance from which it has never recovered.

"The story is a sad but also a chastening one for those who, more than half a century after socialism's decline, still wish to change America," she wrote. "Radicals have often succumbed to the devastating bane of sectarianism; it is easier, after all, to fight one's fellows than it is to battle an entrenched and powerful foe. Yet if the history of Local New York shows anything, it is that American radicals cannot afford to become their own worst enemies. In unity lies their only hope."

Her thesis was dedicated to her brother "whose involvement in radical causes led me to explore the history of American radicalism in the hope of clarifying my own political ideas."

If confirmed, Kagan would give the high court three women justices for the first time.

She would be the youngest member on the current court and the first justice in nearly four decades without any prior judicial experience.

WND reported today Kagan has advocated for an increased presidential role in regulation, which, she conceded, would make such affairs more and more an extension of the president's own policy and political agenda.

Kagan was nominated as U.S. solicitor general by Obama in January and confirmed by the Senate in March. She was a dean of Harvard Law School and previously served alongside Obama as a professor of law at the University of Chicago.

A former clerk to Abner Mikva at the D.C. federal appeals court, Kagan was heavily involved in promoting the health-care policy of the Clinton administration.

Obama praised her because while he said a "judge's job is to interpret the law, not make the law," she has evidenced a "keen understanding of the impact of the law on people's lives."

The president said she has a "firm grasp on the nexus and boundaries between our three branches of government."

But more importantly, she understands, "behind the law there are stories, stories of people's lives," Obama said.

Kagan said the law is "endlessly interesting" and also "protects the most fundamental rights and freedoms."

[MarkC]

.....In her undergraduate thesis.....

Her UNDERGRADUATE THESIS????

Saul, did you realize what you were citing?

(Undergraduate thesis?)

[SaulChanukah]

.....In her undergraduate thesis.....

Her UNDERGRADUATE THESIS????

Saul, did you realize what you were citing?

(Undergraduate thesis?)

LOL your name is Mark LOL haha!!

funny stuff!

[Barry]

.....In her undergraduate thesis.....

Her UNDERGRADUATE THESIS????

Saul, did you realize what you were citing?

(Undergraduate thesis?)

LOL your name is Mark LOL haha!!

funny stuff!

He's right, Saul. When I was an undergrad, I belonged to the most left wing organization on campus.
Although I doubt she's seen the light quite to the extent I have.

[SaulChanukah]

.....In her undergraduate thesis.....

Her UNDERGRADUATE THESIS????

Saul, did you realize what you were citing?

(Undergraduate thesis?)

LOL your name is Mark LOL haha!!

funny stuff!

He's right, Saul. When I was an undergrad, I belonged to the most left wing organization on campus.
Although I doubt she's seen the light quite to the extent I have.

She's a lib.

And Plus, Obama appointed her, that says a great deal.

[Modernistfan]

I am amused by some of the comments coming from Senators such as John Cornyn. The reality is that Ms. Kagan is well in the mainstream of judicial thinking; indeed, she is somewhat further to the right than many Democrats would have preferred, having worked in the centrist Clinton White House and seemingly more deferential to assertions of executive power in the national security area than many other Democrats. Another thing--as dean at Harvard Law School, she definitely curbed the influence of the critical legal studies crowd ("crits") there. If she were an adherent of the critical legal studies school, I would absolutely be condemning her nomination, as I consider that school of jurisprudential theory to be clearly out of the American mainstream, with serious consequences in many areas of the law, especially the First Amendment and equal protection. (Many, although not necessarily all, "crits" support hate speech regulations applicable only to white heterosexuals, with the regulations not applying to people of color on the grounds that they cannot be racist. They don't all phrase it so baldly, but this is the import of their thinking.) There is absolutely no evidence that Ms. Kagan has any sympathy with this line of reasoning. However, I doubt that Senator Cornyn knows the difference between critical legal studies and a plate of Texas barbecue.

I think the real problem for people like Senator Cornyn is not her experience or judicial philosophy, but her own background. Hmmm--someone named Kagan (and isn't that a Russian name??) who grew up on New York's ultra-liberal (and very Jewish) Upper West Side, an intellectual by reputation, a woman, unmarried. Must be an absolutely flaming radical. This is why it is almost impossible for me to ever consider voting Republican unless this sort of thinking changes and quickly. I don't need to push my way into a club where I am clearly not welcome.

(The only problem I have with the nomination is that Justice Stevens was an excellent bridge player and a Life Master in the American Contract Bridge League. Ms. Kagan is known as a poker player, but is not known to be a bridge player. As a tournament bridge player myself, we need one on the Court!)

[NancyElla]

However, I doubt that Senator Cornyn knows the difference between critical legal studies and a plate of Texas barbecue.

Nice line, and probably accurate, too!

[MarkC]

.....Justice Stevens was an excellent bridge player and a Life Master in the American Contract Bridge League. Ms. Kagan is known as a poker player, but is not known to be a bridge player. As a tournament bridge player myself, we need one on the Court!)

Let me digress.

My bridge experience (relatively meager, and I wasn't real good) has been key in my interpretation of music scores.

It was through bridge that I got comfortable with a given thing meaning different things, depending on the situation.

That might not sound like much, but it's huge, and profound. Both in the bidding and the playing, a certain specific thing can have vastly different meanings. "Two no trump" can mean a great hand or a lousy one. "Three clubs" can mean something about clubs, or something about totally other suits. Playing a diamond can mean you have lots more, or that you have no more.

On another music site, we're debating the possible meanings of "hairpins" -- those hairpin-shaped things in music scores that are commonly taken to mean simply "get louder" or "get softer" but which in the minds of a growing number of people, can have other meanings, according to composer and context. Some people seem just uncomfortable with the idea that the same symbol might mean different things. Bridge is what made the idea not just comfortable but familiar.

I can imagine that this would also help a judge. I'm sure there are zillions of ways to get familiar and comfortable with multiple meanings, but bridge is one of them.

[Chalkperson]

.....Justice Stevens was an excellent bridge player and a Life Master in the American Contract Bridge League. Ms. Kagan is known as a poker player, but is not known to be a bridge player. As a tournament bridge player myself, we need one on the Court!)

Let me digress.

My bridge experience (relatively meager, and I wasn't real good) has been key in my interpretation of music scores.

It was through bridge that I got comfortable with a given thing meaning different things, depending on the situation.

That might not sound like much, but it's huge, and profound. Both in the bidding and the playing, a certain specific thing can have vastly different meanings. "Two no trump" can mean a great hand or a lousy one. "Three clubs" can mean something about clubs, or something about totally other suits. Playing a diamond can mean you have lots more, or that you have no more.

On another music site, we're debating the possible meanings of "hairpins" -- those hairpin-shaped things in music scores that are commonly taken to mean simply "get louder" or "get softer" but which in the minds of a growing number of people, can have other meanings, according to composer and context. Some people seem just uncomfortable with the idea that the same symbol might mean different things. Bridge is what made the idea not just comfortable but familiar.

I can imagine that this would also help a judge. I'm sure there are zillions of ways to get familiar and comfortable with multiple meanings, but bridge is one of them.

Digress away old chap...I had gotten used to you playing piano music as stories, now, should I be listening to Horowitz whilst playing cards, no, I should be playing cards whilst listening to Horowitz, and, I will take your suggestion and listen to him with the Volume Control at Zero...

I have not played Bridge in about 20 years, but, I love playing Solitaire on my iPad...

[MarkC]

......I had gotten used to you playing piano music as stories......

It's easier to do a story when you feel anything can mean anything. [smiley suppressed]

But at the same time, it's easier to grasp the composer's story when you know the full range of what something can mean.

[NancyElla]

At last, some good news in the background info about Kagan--she's an opera fan! (From the Washington Post yesterday.)

[Modernistfan]

She grew up only a few blocks from Lincoln Center (72nd and West End Avenue). I think that's great, but for Senators Cornyn, Sessions, Imhofe, and those of that ilk, that is just more evidence of her elitism. That crowd would, by and large, rather get waterboarded than sit through, for example, "La Boheme."

[MarkC]

Huh.......I lived 2 blocks from there for a long time.
And before that, my office was a couple of blocks from there.

And I used to eat at the PIer 72 diner on that corner all the time.

I wonder if she ever went in there. I bet she did. If you lived right there, it was hard to avoid.

I think I'll drop in and ask.