FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
That's amazing. It will take awhile to come to grips with the potential (for good and/or ill) from this achievement.
"This is happiness; to be dissolved into something complete and great." --Willa Cather
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Way-cool! Design some bacteria to eat carbon dioxide and excrete petroleum. Solves Global Warming Alarmism and the price of gas at the same time (and no, I am NOT joking! That's the way-cool part!).
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Unless one believes that natural life could and can only be created supernaturally, this was bound to happen - and soon. The question is, where will it lead? I vote for Brendan's idea.
John Francis
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
John F wrote:Unless one believes that natural life could and can only be created supernaturally, this was bound to happen.
I don't believe that any life was created supernaturally, but we're still a long way from figuring out how to it happened from scratch "in the beginning." That's one scientific puzzle that seems within our grasp that I would like to see solved in my lifetime.We call it synthetic because the cell is totally derived from a synthetic chromosome, made with four bottles of chemicals on a chemical synthesizer, starting with information in a computer.
That's pretty exciting, Agnes; thanks for posting it.
There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Well, this was worth coming back to post on! Great article, Agnes, thanks! These critters, if harnessed wisely, could be a boon to all sorts of issues.
John, I don't think any supernatural stuff happened to create the first self-replicating molecules either. And these new synthesized organisms, I would say, can rightfully claim "life"!
Teresa
John, I don't think any supernatural stuff happened to create the first self-replicating molecules either. And these new synthesized organisms, I would say, can rightfully claim "life"!
Teresa
"We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." ~ The Cheshire Cat
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Alleluia, Teresa! You were missed.
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Thank you, piston.piston wrote:Alleluia, Teresa! You were missed.
Teresa
"We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." ~ The Cheshire Cat
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Glad to see you back, Teresa. We need your knowledge and input.
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
To which, let me add....
There were reports you had gone walkabout; I'm pleased that wasn't the case. And if it was, I'm glad you found your way back.
There were reports you had gone walkabout; I'm pleased that wasn't the case. And if it was, I'm glad you found your way back.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Nope, no walkabouts! I just felt that a break from getting pounded by one or two notorious posters was in my best interest. I have a lot to do lately, but I plan to post if it strikes the fancy.
Thanks,
Teresa
Thanks,
Teresa
"We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." ~ The Cheshire Cat
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Dear Teresa,
...and please keep us posted about your Mozart concerto performance in June.
Love,
Agnes.
...and please keep us posted about your Mozart concerto performance in June.
Love,
Agnes.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Very interesting - glad you and WA are getting together again, Teresa! Do let us know!
Best,
Best,
Werner Isler
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Great to see you back, Teresa, we missed you...
Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Let's see what religious fundamentalists pull out of their behinds to explain this one.
Glad to have you back
Yeah sorry about thatTeresa B wrote: Nope, no walkabouts! I just felt that a break from getting pounded by one or two notorious posters was in my best interest.
Glad to have you back
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100521/ap_ ... hetic_cell
Church warns cell scientists not to play God
Figures
Church warns cell scientists not to play God
Figures
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Well maybe.Brendan wrote:Way-cool! Design some bacteria to eat carbon dioxide and excrete petroleum. Solves Global Warming Alarmism and the price of gas at the same time (and no, I am NOT joking! That's the way-cool part!).
But even that bears out what NancyElla said ("potential (for good and/or ill"), because, y'know, there are always "unintended consequences."
With stuff like pills, it's "side effects." With something like this, it's completely up for grabs.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
If that happens again, why not just tell them to go @#$%&%#@ themselves?Teresa B wrote:......I just felt that a break from getting pounded by one or two notorious posters was in my best interest......
(feel free to copy/paste from here)
BTW: Your reason for leaving is the reason that I almost entirely avoid the political threads.
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Three cheers for Craig and the Venter Institute! Dr. Venter is one great guy, an altruist making good in the too often selfish field of bio-medical research. Thanks to him the Human Genome was not patented. If you haven't read his Bio there is a fair example available at Wikipedia. And three cheers to Teresa also....great to see you back!
It's good to be back among friends from the past.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
"Notorious" ??Teresa B wrote: I just felt that a break from getting pounded by one or two notorious posters was in my best interest.
Not as graceful a re-entrance as one would have expected.
Last edited by JackC on Fri May 21, 2010 3:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Spring water under the bridge and down the falls....
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
JackC wrote: [quote="Teresa B I just felt that a break from getting pounded by one or two notorious posters was in my best interest.
I assume I'm one of them. While I'm glad to see Teresa back, I have no regrets over the stance I took on the single issue over which she and I had aggressive disagreements. In fact, I view my position on that issue as fair-minded and something to be proud of.JackC wrote:"Notorious" ??
Not as graceful a re-entrance as would have expected.
And that's all I'll say since I know nobody is looking for that to be re-hashed.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln
"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill
"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan
http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related
"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill
"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan
http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Barry wrote:JackC wrote: [quote="Teresa B I just felt that a break from getting pounded by one or two notorious posters was in my best interest.I assume I'm one of them.JackC wrote:"Notorious" ??
Not as graceful a re-entrance as would have expected.
Nope, she said "one or two". I know for certain who one is, and I am 99% certain that I would have been given the other spot before you.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Many of them good.MarkC wrote:there are always "unintended consequences."
John Francis
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
She must have meant three, then .JackC wrote:Barry wrote:JackC wrote: [quote="Teresa B I just felt that a break from getting pounded by one or two notorious posters was in my best interest.I assume I'm one of them.JackC wrote:"Notorious" ??
Not as graceful a re-entrance as would have expected.
Nope, she said "one or two". I know for certain who one is, and I am 99% certain that I would have been given the other spot before you.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln
"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill
"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan
http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related
"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill
"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan
http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Are you missing the point on purpose?John F wrote:Many of them good.MarkC wrote:there are always "unintended consequences."
If there are bad unintended consequences, they are of concern.
That's what I meant.
Do you disagree that bad unintended consequences are of concern?
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Well, let's just keep everyone guessin' a la Carly Simon's "You're So Vain", shall we?Barry wrote:JackC wrote:Barry wrote:JackC wrote: [quote="Teresa B I just felt that a break from getting pounded by one or two notorious posters was in my best interest.I assume I'm one of them.JackC wrote:"Notorious" ??
Not as graceful a re-entrance as would have expected.
Nope, she said "one or two". I know for certain who one is, and I am 99% certain that I would have been given the other spot before you.
She must have meant three, then .
Teresa
"We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." ~ The Cheshire Cat
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
I don't drink coffee.Teresa B wrote: Well, let's just keep everyone guessin' a la Carly Simon's "You're So Vain", shall we?
Teresa
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln
"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill
"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan
http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related
"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill
"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan
http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Please note that the article reads 'synthetic life', but the post title here claims synthetic life (minus "quotes" as though it was really alive). Misleading inaccuracy in the extreme.
dj
dj
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
I sort of agree, although we've seen worse.david johnson wrote:Please note that the article reads 'synthetic life', but the post title here claims synthetic life (minus "quotes" as though it was really alive). Misleading inaccuracy in the extreme.
IMO this is mild among 'misleading inaccuracies.'
But anyway.......besides what you said, the phrase "synthetic life," with or without quotes, doesn't appear in the article at all. It's just in the headline.
We ought to point out: It's an ironic fact (and maybe little-known) that a headline, which is the main thing that gets noticed in articles and the main thing that might be remembered or sometimes immortalized, ISN'T PART OF AN ARTICLE, per se. It wasn't written by the writer (except maybe occasionally).
It's written by some editor at a desk, and often based more on catchiness and fitting into the space in a certain way, than on faithfully reflecting the article.
This article itself never indicates anything more than that this may be a step toward "synthetic life" -- and it does a pretty good job of covering the concerns.
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Self-replicating bacteria HAVE LIFE. It is called synthetic because the celldavid johnson wrote:Please note that the article reads 'synthetic life', but the post title here claims synthetic life (minus "quotes" as though it was really alive). Misleading inaccuracy in the extreme.
dj
is derived from synthetic chromosome.
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
I had my doubts to, but the article seems to be saying that the chromosome was literally put together in a laboratory, and not from parts of other chromosomes. That's a pretty big deal.Agnes Selby wrote:Self-replicating bacteria HAVE LIFE. It is called synthetic because the celldavid johnson wrote:Please note that the article reads 'synthetic life', but the post title here claims synthetic life (minus "quotes" as though it was really alive). Misleading inaccuracy in the extreme.
dj
is derived from synthetic chromosome.
There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
All we're saying is that the wording doesn't appear in the article.Agnes Selby wrote:Self-replicating bacteria HAVE LIFE. It is called synthetic because the cell is derived from synthetic chromosome.
Surely one can argue what you're saying, but that's a different debate.....
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
I am sorry Mark. I can only go by the article. In any case, I believeMarkC wrote:All we're saying is that the wording doesn't appear in the article.Agnes Selby wrote:Self-replicating bacteria HAVE LIFE. It is called synthetic because the cell is derived from synthetic chromosome.
Surely one can argue what you're saying, but that's a different debate.....
it is a very important discovery. Perhaps, in years to come, the
"synthetic bacteria" could be useful in diminishing the destruction caused
by another oil spill.
However, I would be interested in your argument in a "different debate".
As a scientist, your opinion is valuable.
Agnes.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
It seems a bit silly to be worrying about whether the words appeared in the article, or whether quotes were in there or not. There is, though, an interesting point of debate as to what constitutes "life" exactly.
These cells were apparently made using manufactured chromosomes which were placed in already existing cells whose DNA had been extracted. So I would submit they are definitely alive. Now, whether the scientists involved can say they "created life in vitro" or whatever, is a moot point. They did not create an entire cell with all its mitochondria, ribosomes, endoplasmic reticulum, Golgi bodies, structural tubules, etc, from scratch--and the DNA, although it obviously is now specifying proteins and self-replicating, was only the so-called "blueprint". We're still a long way from conjuring up formed homunculi, but there could be some amazing medical breakthroughs, and all sorts of other applications--cells that can produce or metabolize certain chemicals--could be a great boon to pharmaceuticals and other industries.
Teresa
These cells were apparently made using manufactured chromosomes which were placed in already existing cells whose DNA had been extracted. So I would submit they are definitely alive. Now, whether the scientists involved can say they "created life in vitro" or whatever, is a moot point. They did not create an entire cell with all its mitochondria, ribosomes, endoplasmic reticulum, Golgi bodies, structural tubules, etc, from scratch--and the DNA, although it obviously is now specifying proteins and self-replicating, was only the so-called "blueprint". We're still a long way from conjuring up formed homunculi, but there could be some amazing medical breakthroughs, and all sorts of other applications--cells that can produce or metabolize certain chemicals--could be a great boon to pharmaceuticals and other industries.
Teresa
"We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." ~ The Cheshire Cat
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Thank you, Teresa. As it took millions of years for LIFE to emerge,
lets give this amazing new discovery a "little" bit of time.
Love,
Agnes.
lets give this amazing new discovery a "little" bit of time.
Love,
Agnes.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Speaking as a 'scientist,' to the extent that I am (thank you!!!), I think it's a slight stretch to call it "synthetic LIFE."Agnes Selby wrote:.....However, I would be interested in your argument in a "different debate".
As a scientist, your opinion is valuable.
And in any event I think that's more of a semantic question than a scientific one. Although I guess you have to be a scientist to know that.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Really?Teresa B wrote:It seems a bit silly to be worrying about whether the words appeared in the article.....
It's the difference between citing what the writer wrote, and giving our own take.
And the "quotes" thing is very interesting, although it reflects on the headline writer, not Agnes.
WHAT EXACTLY did the headline writer mean by putting it in quotes? (not to mention using the phrase at all)
It's not a quote from the article, so it ain't that.
Was it supposed to indicate "sort of," as quotes sometimes do?
We don't know.
It was a bad job by the headline writer, and (IMO) maybe a slight mistake by Agnes -- but we can't blame her, because after all, the headline does say it ('sort of'), and I don't think it's common knowledge that the writer doesn't write the headline.
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
True! I am not a scientist. But you being a Doctor of Medine surely you mustMarkC wrote:Speaking as a 'scientist,' to the extent that I am (thank you!!!), I think it's a slight stretch to call it "synthetic LIFE."Agnes Selby wrote:.....However, I would be interested in your argument in a "different debate".
As a scientist, your opinion is valuable.
And in any event I think that's more of a semantic question than a scientific one. Although I guess you have to be a scientist to know that.
see the potential in this research. This observation is coming to you
from a humble retired journalist.
...and by the way I fully agree with your opinion on stem cell research.
We do not have any problems with it in Australia.
Agnes.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Absolutely! That was never at issue.Agnes Selby wrote:.....surely you must
see the potential in this research.
Huh..........I didn't know!!!.....This observation is coming to you
from a humble retired journalist.
Then I guess you know very well (and maybe sometimes rued the fact) that the writer doesn't write the title or the headline!
.....and by coincidence, I just got off the phone with Australia....and by the way I fully agree with your opinion on stem cell research.
We do not have any problems with it in Australia.
My niece lives there -- recently moved from Florida. And I really do not understand how it is that I'm able to get her by calling her old Florida phone number.
Progress is cool.
And that goes for stem cell research too.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
Yes. It's clear Agnes did not "unquote" the title words in an attempt to change the meaning, and the headline writer obviously included them to indicate it wasn't necessarily "synthetic life" at this point as we imagine it. To quibble about the title of the thread seems counterproductive to the discussion, since we all understand the intent of it. I do still think the "life" vs "nonlife" issue itself is good fodder for discussion.MarkC wrote:Really?Teresa B wrote:It seems a bit silly to be worrying about whether the words appeared in the article.....
I think Agnes's thread title was very likely unmeditated! And it may not be common knowledge about headlines, although if you get two newspapers, you can surely glean that by reading the same column on two different op-ed pages.And the "quotes" thing is very interesting, although it reflects on the headline writer, not Agnes.
It was a bad job by the headline writer, and (IMO) maybe a slight mistake by Agnes -- but we can't blame her, because after all, the headline does say it ('sort of'), and I don't think it's common knowledge that the writer doesn't write the headline.
Teresa
"We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." ~ The Cheshire Cat
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
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Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
The truth is, I did not pay much attention to "quotes".
I was simply fascinated by the article.
I was simply fascinated by the article.
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
I think you're missing it -- and you probably think I am -- so probably we should cap it right here.......Teresa B wrote:Yes. It's clear Agnes did not "unquote" the title words in an attempt to change the meaning, and the headline writer obviously included them to indicate it wasn't necessarily "synthetic life" at this point as we imagine it.....
Re: FIRST SYNTHETIC LIFE!!!
The "quotes" thing was the lesser of it.Agnes Selby wrote:The truth is, I did not pay much attention to "quotes"......
The main thing was using the phrase at all -- since it doesn't appear in the article, nor does anything like it. It's not part of the story; it's either a misreading or an editorialization.
As I said, I don't really blame you -- I blame the headline writer.
Me too.I was simply fascinated by the article.
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