An alternate theory
An alternate theory
There have been numerous posts on creationism vs evolution and the beginning of human life on Earth.
I thought I would share my theory on the subject. There is no scientic evidence, although there is ample anecdotal evidence to perhaps support it. Although frankly, I'm not sure I care too much about that and I'm comfortable with not having proof.
First, I believe there is intelligent life on other planets (probably very many). It has always stuck me as the height of arrogance and self-centeredness (is that a word?) to think otherwise.
I have always suspected that way back when, our human ancestors were re-located here by another space-travel enabled civilation as a social experiment. "We" were the ones that were not quite "right". Either sub-intelligent. or social misfits, or genetically imperfect, or otherwise somehow not acceptable. Perhaps even criminals. Since then, every once in awhile, "they" checked-in on us to see how we were doing. Over time they either still check-in or have just forgotten about the experiment over time. Much the same way we, as a society, tend to embrace experimental programs and then abandon them for something else over time.
As for the various religions...shrug. Humans are generally very uncomfortable with the unknown and demand explaination. Humans also tend to be very superstitious. Then there have always been men who are uniquely charismatic, and when they embrace a cause, are able to convince great numbers of people to follow. Couple that with others, who have a political agenda, get involved and voila...a religion is born. It's always been easier to manipulate people by saying "God said so".
There it is, take it or leave it. I'm happy with it either way
I thought I would share my theory on the subject. There is no scientic evidence, although there is ample anecdotal evidence to perhaps support it. Although frankly, I'm not sure I care too much about that and I'm comfortable with not having proof.
First, I believe there is intelligent life on other planets (probably very many). It has always stuck me as the height of arrogance and self-centeredness (is that a word?) to think otherwise.
I have always suspected that way back when, our human ancestors were re-located here by another space-travel enabled civilation as a social experiment. "We" were the ones that were not quite "right". Either sub-intelligent. or social misfits, or genetically imperfect, or otherwise somehow not acceptable. Perhaps even criminals. Since then, every once in awhile, "they" checked-in on us to see how we were doing. Over time they either still check-in or have just forgotten about the experiment over time. Much the same way we, as a society, tend to embrace experimental programs and then abandon them for something else over time.
As for the various religions...shrug. Humans are generally very uncomfortable with the unknown and demand explaination. Humans also tend to be very superstitious. Then there have always been men who are uniquely charismatic, and when they embrace a cause, are able to convince great numbers of people to follow. Couple that with others, who have a political agenda, get involved and voila...a religion is born. It's always been easier to manipulate people by saying "God said so".
There it is, take it or leave it. I'm happy with it either way
Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. - Albert Einstein
I haven't got the slightest idea how to change people, but still I keep a long list of prospective candidates just in case I should ever figure it out - David Sedaris (Naked)
I haven't got the slightest idea how to change people, but still I keep a long list of prospective candidates just in case I should ever figure it out - David Sedaris (Naked)
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Re: An alternate theory
Erich von Daniken?
Re: An alternate theory
Unfortunately, without evidence it's just wishful thinking. There is no sign anywhere in the universe that other intelligent life has existed and broadcast their versions of I Love Lucy re-runs into the cosmic darkness as we have for some decades now. Wherever we look, we just find the background radiation from the Big Bang.
Our Sun and solar system is at least a second-generation creation, born from a previous star exploding. If you think how old the universe is, we may well be the very first life to become self-aware, and our earth with it's moon looks to be statistically very rare (no moon and we'd spin very differently. If life did evolve, it would be very different from us or even dinosaurs).
It's up to us to get out there and seed the cosmos, IMHO.
BTW, meditation/theology is not belief or superstition, but something anyone can experience with practice. Try The Mystical Mind: Probing the Biology of Religious Experience by D'Aquili and Newberg, Zen and the Brain and/or Zen-Brain Reflections by James H Austen to see how religion is hard-wired in the human brain. Not all religion is beliefs and superstition, as I keep repeating to no avail.
Our Sun and solar system is at least a second-generation creation, born from a previous star exploding. If you think how old the universe is, we may well be the very first life to become self-aware, and our earth with it's moon looks to be statistically very rare (no moon and we'd spin very differently. If life did evolve, it would be very different from us or even dinosaurs).
It's up to us to get out there and seed the cosmos, IMHO.
BTW, meditation/theology is not belief or superstition, but something anyone can experience with practice. Try The Mystical Mind: Probing the Biology of Religious Experience by D'Aquili and Newberg, Zen and the Brain and/or Zen-Brain Reflections by James H Austen to see how religion is hard-wired in the human brain. Not all religion is beliefs and superstition, as I keep repeating to no avail.
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Re: An alternate theory
Hmm we're all a bunch of Australians thenJean wrote:I have always suspected that way back when, our human ancestors were re-located here by another space-travel enabled civilation as a social experiment. "We" were the ones that were not quite "right". Either sub-intelligent. or social misfits, or genetically imperfect, or otherwise somehow not acceptable. Perhaps even criminals. Since then, every once in awhile, "they" checked-in on us to see how we were doing. Over time they either still check-in or have just forgotten about the experiment over time. Much the same way we, as a society, tend to embrace experimental programs and then abandon them for something else over time.
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Re: An alternate theory
You wish!!!living_stradivarius wrote:Hmm we're all a bunch of Australians thenJean wrote:I have always suspected that way back when, our human ancestors were re-located here by another space-travel enabled civilation as a social experiment. "We" were the ones that were not quite "right". Either sub-intelligent. or social misfits, or genetically imperfect, or otherwise somehow not acceptable. Perhaps even criminals. Since then, every once in awhile, "they" checked-in on us to see how we were doing. Over time they either still check-in or have just forgotten about the experiment over time. Much the same way we, as a society, tend to embrace experimental programs and then abandon them for something else over time.
Re: An alternate theory
Jean -- IMO it's not impossible.
I had a teacher/colleague/friend who believed that.
In any event, I do believe it's likely that there is intelligent life elsewhere. As for the rest of the theory, if I had to bet one way or the other, I'd bet no. But I wouldn't bet everything I had.
I had a teacher/colleague/friend who believed that.
In any event, I do believe it's likely that there is intelligent life elsewhere. As for the rest of the theory, if I had to bet one way or the other, I'd bet no. But I wouldn't bet everything I had.
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Re: An alternate theory
If we think so because we view humans as apart for religious reasons, yes. However, if we continue to wonder, given the highly peculiar circumstances that made us possible and the fact that we have only been here for 100,000 out of billions of years, if that represents, as is likely, a multiplication of rarities that produces a very small number indeed (chances of an Earth-like planet around a sun-like star X chances of it being the right distance from its star for liquid water X chances that it has a moon- or otherwise-stabilized orbit plus planetological and collision-free stability to permit eon-length periods of evolution, etc.), then the probability of such as us may become very small even with respect to the number of stars in the universe. We're still ignorant of many of the details, but it seems that intelligent life is very scarce indeed, and that thought, far from being arrogant, is extremely humbling.Jean wrote: First, I believe there is intelligent life on other planets (probably very many). It has always stuck me as the height of arrogance and self-centeredness (is that a word?) to think otherwise.
What a great idea for a science fiction plot! Wait a minute....I have always suspected that way back when, our human ancestors were re-located here by another space-travel enabled civilation as a social experiment. "We" were the ones that were not quite "right". Either sub-intelligent. or social misfits, or genetically imperfect, or otherwise somehow not acceptable. Perhaps even criminals. Since then, every once in awhile, "they" checked-in on us to see how we were doing. Over time they either still check-in or have just forgotten about the experiment over time. Much the same way we, as a society, tend to embrace experimental programs and then abandon them for something else over time.
There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach
Re: An alternate theory
I heard of this Swiss dreamer when I was 8 years old playing with my friends in the park while growing up in Israel.Agnes Selby wrote:Erich von Daniken?
He wrote absolute rubbish, and I knew that it was rubbish even before I became religious.
Re: An alternate theory
Actually the Jewish Sources say that there is life on other planets.Brendan wrote:Unfortunately, without evidence it's just wishful thinking. There is no sign anywhere in the universe that other intelligent life has existed and broadcast their versions of I Love Lucy re-runs into the cosmic darkness as we have for some decades now. Wherever we look, we just find the background radiation from the Big Bang.
Our Sun and solar system is at least a second-generation creation, born from a previous star exploding. If you think how old the universe is, we may well be the very first life to become self-aware, and our earth with it's moon looks to be statistically very rare (no moon and we'd spin very differently. If life did evolve, it would be very different from us or even dinosaurs).
It's up to us to get out there and seed the cosmos, IMHO.
BTW, meditation/theology is not belief or superstition, but something anyone can experience with practice. Try The Mystical Mind: Probing the Biology of Religious Experience by D'Aquili and Newberg, Zen and the Brain and/or Zen-Brain Reflections by James H Austen to see how religion is hard-wired in the human brain. Not all religion is beliefs and superstition, as I keep repeating to no avail.
The discovery of ETs would pose no more of a threat to Judaism than would the discovery of a new species of rabbit.
It would be limiting God's power to say that He could not have placed life on other planets. In fact, there is a reference in the biblical Book of Judges (5:23) to an inhabited place called Maroz, which the Talmud identifies as a star.
But Jewish thought has always believed that the most weird and wonderful creatures are to be found right here on earth. We can explore the remotest extremities of space but still remain alien to our own humanity. The real secrets of the universe lie hidden in the depths of the human soul.
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Re: An alternate theory
Nobody asked you.SaulChanukah wrote:I heard of this Swiss dreamer when I was 8 years old playing with my friends in the park while growing up in Israel.Agnes Selby wrote:Erich von Daniken?
He wrote absolute rubbish, and I knew that it was rubbish even before I became religious.
Re: An alternate theory
I was not answering, I was reffering to her comments.living_stradivarius wrote:Nobody asked you.SaulChanukah wrote:I heard of this Swiss dreamer when I was 8 years old playing with my friends in the park while growing up in Israel.Agnes Selby wrote:Erich von Daniken?
He wrote absolute rubbish, and I knew that it was rubbish even before I became religious.
My comment wasnt even an answer.
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Re: An alternate theory
Nobody asked you for a comment.SaulChanukah wrote:I was not answering, I was reffering to her comments.living_stradivarius wrote:Nobody asked you.SaulChanukah wrote:I heard of this Swiss dreamer when I was 8 years old playing with my friends in the park while growing up in Israel.Agnes Selby wrote:Erich von Daniken?
He wrote absolute rubbish, and I knew that it was rubbish even before I became religious.
My comment wasnt even an answer.
Re: An alternate theory
Well comments are made even without questions or demands.living_stradivarius wrote:Nobody asked you for a comment.SaulChanukah wrote:I was not answering, I was reffering to her comments.living_stradivarius wrote:Nobody asked you.SaulChanukah wrote:I heard of this Swiss dreamer when I was 8 years old playing with my friends in the park while growing up in Israel.Agnes Selby wrote:Erich von Daniken?
He wrote absolute rubbish, and I knew that it was rubbish even before I became religious.
My comment wasnt even an answer.
I'm surprised you didnt know that.
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Re: An alternate theory
I'm surprised you didn't know your comment wasn't welcome.
Re: An alternate theory
Please show those sources instead of your usual invented lies.SaulChanukah wrote: Actually the Jewish Sources say that there is life on other planets.
The discovery of ETs would pose no more of a threat to Judaism than would the discovery of a new species of rabbit.
It would be limiting God's power to say that He could not have placed life on other planets. In fact, there is a reference in the biblical Book of Judges (5:23) to an inhabited place called Maroz, which the Talmud identifies as a star.
But Jewish thought has always believed that the most weird and wonderful creatures are to be found right here on earth. We can explore the remotest extremities of space but still remain alien to our own humanity. The real secrets of the universe lie hidden in the depths of the human soul.
Liar.
Go sacrifice a goat.
Historically, it was Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (is Cardinal a Jewish title?) who first proposed that stars were other suns with potiential planets with intelligent life, and that Jesus existed for their salvation in every instance, as He is infinite.
Look it up, moron.
Then kill some birds and spray their blood on the altar to satisfy your primitive god. (Leviticus)
Oh, that's right! Your Temple is now a Moslem mosque. Wail at the wall instead, retard.
Re: An alternate theory
Do I expect anything else from an anti Semite like yourself?Brendan wrote:Please show those sources instead of your usual invented lies.SaulChanukah wrote: Actually the Jewish Sources say that there is life on other planets.
The discovery of ETs would pose no more of a threat to Judaism than would the discovery of a new species of rabbit.
It would be limiting God's power to say that He could not have placed life on other planets. In fact, there is a reference in the biblical Book of Judges (5:23) to an inhabited place called Maroz, which the Talmud identifies as a star.
But Jewish thought has always believed that the most weird and wonderful creatures are to be found right here on earth. We can explore the remotest extremities of space but still remain alien to our own humanity. The real secrets of the universe lie hidden in the depths of the human soul.
Liar.
Go sacrifice a goat.
Historically, it was Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (is Cardinal a Jewish title?) who first proposed that stars were other suns with potiential planets with intelligent life, and that Jesus existed for their salvation in every instance, as He is infinite.
Look it up, moron.
Then kill some birds and spray their blood on the altar to satisfy your primitive god. (Leviticus)
Oh, that's right! Your Temple is now a Moslem mosque. Wail at the wall instead, retard.
No.
Why don't you tell us what you really feel...
Good heavens.
Re: An alternate theory
I'm not anti-Semite as I have demonstrated and stated many times. In fact, as an Aussie I never understood anti-Semitism until I encounter you and your vile attitude, even to other Jews.
I despise and hate you (when I bother) and no one else.
Go sacrifice a goat to your god, you rancid filthy moron.
I despise and hate you (when I bother) and no one else.
Go sacrifice a goat to your god, you rancid filthy moron.
Re: An alternate theory
All you need is love...Brendan wrote:I'm not anti-Semite as I have demonstrated and stated many times.
I despise and hate you (when I bother) and no one else.
Go sacrifice a goat to your god, you rancid moron.
Relax its an internet forum, you don't even know me.
Even I don't hate you, there has to be more to you then just hate and aweful posts...
I wish I could make you stop been a Jew hater, but you are too persistent.
You need to chill...
Re: An alternate theory
You're too hateful.Brendan wrote:Go sacrife a goat, moron.
Go sacrifice your ego, and relax.
Re: An alternate theory
Obey your primitive scirptures (surely you obey scripture!) and start sacrificing animals as you are instructed.
Retard
Retard
Re: An alternate theory
You lost it.Brendan wrote:Obey your primitive scirptures (surely you obey scripture!) and start sacrificing animals as you are instructed.
Retard
Say as you want, I will not respond to you anymore, you have crossed all lines.
Last edited by SaulChanukah on Fri May 28, 2010 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: An alternate theory
No. You are a moron and everyone here thinks so. Jews and Gentiles. Look at the responses you get, you rancid scum.
Go sacrifice a goat, retard
Go sacrifice a goat, retard
Last edited by Brendan on Fri May 28, 2010 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An alternate theory
Jen, I think you're taking Ursula LeGuin a little too seriously.
Here is an argument that should appeal at least to Thomist theologians:
God is perfect.
Therefore, everything He directly created is perfect.
Humans are imperfect--wisdom teeth, curly toes that give us corns, etc.
Therefore, Man is not a direct creation of God.
Things like wisdom teeth, which come from a time when our ancestors needed them, are evidence for evolution. Curly toes and corns are the result of the fact that our ancestors swing through trees and needed them. We no longer do, and our toes have shortened accordingly, but they're still sort of curved. Evolution is a lot sloppier than any self-respecting God would be.
Here is an argument that should appeal at least to Thomist theologians:
God is perfect.
Therefore, everything He directly created is perfect.
Humans are imperfect--wisdom teeth, curly toes that give us corns, etc.
Therefore, Man is not a direct creation of God.
Things like wisdom teeth, which come from a time when our ancestors needed them, are evidence for evolution. Curly toes and corns are the result of the fact that our ancestors swing through trees and needed them. We no longer do, and our toes have shortened accordingly, but they're still sort of curved. Evolution is a lot sloppier than any self-respecting God would be.
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Re: An alternate theory
In case you care, you don't enhance your own credibility or anything at all when you say stuff like that.Brendan wrote:....Go sacrifice a goat to your god, you rancid filthy moron.
Then again, I've given advice to Saul and he didn't pay any attention, so......maybe I'm not enhancing anything either.
Re: An alternate theory
OK, but speak for yourself!Jean wrote:I have always suspected that way back when, our human ancestors were re-located here by another space-travel enabled civilation as a social experiment. "We" were the ones that were not quite "right".
Teresa
"We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." ~ The Cheshire Cat
Author of the novel "Creating Will"
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Re: An alternate theory
Not an original idea. It was George Bernard Shaw who wrote "The Earth is the insane asylum for the rest of the universe."Teresa B wrote:OK, but speak for yourself! TeresaJean wrote:I have always suspected that way back when, our human ancestors were re-located here by another space-travel enabled civilation as a social experiment. "We" were the ones that were not quite "right".
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.
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