The greatest recording of Otello?

Your 'hot spot' for all classical music subjects. Non-classical music subjects are to be posted in the Corner Pub.

Moderators: Lance, Corlyss_D

Post Reply
hangos
Posts: 983
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: England

The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by hangos » Wed May 02, 2012 4:45 pm

I recently downloaded Toscanini's 1947 recording and have been amazed at the heady mixture of elan and lyricism. Amazingly, the voices are very clear (although Vinay and Valdengo sound confusingly similar at times!) and the orchestral detail is there apart from in tuttis, where congestion inevitably reigns.
I also know the Barbirolli and Chung recordings, but if the three I prefer Toscanini
Sorry if this has been discussed before on CMG, but what are your recommendations?
Martin

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Wed May 02, 2012 7:44 pm

"Greatest" may be highly debatable, and no recording is perfect, but since Otello is one of those supreme masterpieces that always bring the best in performers here are a few thoughts on some favorite recordings.

There are many things to consider, and obviously your final verdict will depend on your likes and dislikes in voices.

If you want the best sung Otello ever, irrespective of quality of sound then it must be the 1938 live MET broadcast conducted by Ettore Panizza with THE dream cast of Giovanni Martinelli, Lawrence Tibbett and Elisabeth Rethberg. Not even the Toscanini is better sung, and Panizza conducts a tremendous, white-hot performance not unlike Toscanini´s. The big BUT, and sadly a BIG BUT it is, is the wretched sound. Terrible, terrible unfortunately.
If you like the stentorian Mario del Monaco, it´s worth looking for the 1958 MET broadcast with Leonard Warren, Victoria de los Angeles conducted by Fausto Cleva. Del Monaco was a less subtle, more superficial Otello than Martinelli, Vickers or Domingo, but he was undeniably exciting. Of his 2 DECCA recordings I prefer the first in Mono because his voice was in it´s prime. The second has the advantage of Karajan and the Vienna Philharmonic playing gorgeously, and of course, stereo sound.
Talking about Jon Vickers I am very fond of his classic RCA recording with Gobbi, Rysanek and Serafin conducting. All in all an excellent Otello, and even if the Rome forces are not really first rate and the sound is a little bit dated...it has what it takes. Vicker´s second recording with Karajan is more mannered, and by the late 60´s Karajan became very bombastic in Verdi. Not recommended.
Domingo has recorded several Otellos, and since HE was the Otello of my lifetime (I´m too young to have heard del Monaco, Vickers or McCracken live in this role), I am extremely fond of him. He has matured the role enormously over the years, but even in his first recording with Levine, he was already an exceptional Otello. All his recordings have something unique to offer, but if forced to choose I would say that the 1987 live Vienna recording issued recently in ORFEO is the finest. Gloriously supported by Anna Tomowa-Sintow and Renato Bruson, and ably conducted by Zubin Mehta, this is already an historic document.



Image

John F
Posts: 21051
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by John F » Thu May 03, 2012 1:14 am

Yes to Toscanini, and yes also to Ettore Panizza with that extraordinary Metropolitan Opera cast.

There are two Met airchecks with these performers, and another in which Rethberg is replaced by Stella Roman; all were issued on private LPs, but it's the earliest (February 12, 1938) that's available now. The sound quality depends on which release of the 1938 performance you listen to; the Metropolitan Opera Guild's deluxe LP set made the most of the source material, which was NBC's acetate transcriptions and not an aircheck from the AM radio broadcast - decent monaural sound of its period. I haven't heard the Naxos set, but from josé echenique's description of the sound as "terrible, terrible," I guess it doesn't measure up.

Of more modern recordings, I suppose I'd pick the RCA Victor with James Levine conducting, very much school of Toscanini, and the excellent cast of Placido Domingo, Renata Scotto, and Sherrill Milnes. Levine made this recording fairly early in his career, 34 years ago, and he and Domingo have given even finer performances since then, as on the DVD also with Domingo and Renée Fleming; James Morris is vocally miscast as Iago, but even so, this is definitely an "Otello" to have.
John Francis

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Thu May 03, 2012 10:44 am

Also indispensable to anyone interested in Otello are the arias left by Francesco Tamagno, priceless really. They not only give us a glimpse to a long gone era of larger than life personalities and fabulous voices, but you can actually discern Verdi´s intentions in those recordings. Pearl had a great all-Tamagno cd, but I´m afraid it´s been deleted.

maestrob
Posts: 6487
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by maestrob » Thu May 03, 2012 11:57 am

You're all missing out on an extraordinary DVD, with Antonenko/Poplavskaya, led by the indomitable Muti. Don't believe the reviewers on Amazon: this is a superb cast with both stunning looks and singing: you will be astounded! 8)

That said, Scotto's Desdemona on DVD with Vickers in the old MET telecast has finally been issued, and I'm here to tell you that her singing for that performance runs rings around her harsher sound on CD.

Both are recommended.

Image

Image

stenka razin
CMG's Chief Decorator
Posts: 4005
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:59 am
Location: In The Steppes Of Central Asia

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by stenka razin » Thu May 03, 2012 12:42 pm

maestrob wrote:You're all missing out on an extraordinary DVD, with Antonenko/Poplavskaya, led by the indomitable Muti. Don't believe the reviewers on Amazon: this is a superb cast with both stunning looks and singing: you will be astounded! 8)

That said, Scotto's Desdemona on DVD with Vickers in the old MET telecast has finally been issued, and I'm here to tell you that her singing for that performance runs rings around her harsher sound on CD.

Both are recommended.

Image

Image

I have the Muti/Poplavskaya Otello on Bluray and it beautifully done. Total agreement. :D :D :D :D

On CD, Toscanini is the greatest recording of this thrilling opera. But, there are many others to also consider. I will let our fellow CMGers recommend their favorites. 8)


Regards,
Mel 8)
Image

moreno
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:48 am

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by moreno » Fri May 04, 2012 6:50 pm

hangos wrote:I recently downloaded Toscanini's 1947 recording and have been amazed at the heady mixture of elan and lyricism. [...]
Interesting. I'd say that the balance is clearly tipped towards elan, although sometimes Nelli brings some touches of lyricism. This is certainly one of the best recordings available. In fact Ramón Vinay has been traditionally considered the quintessential Otello. He executes an intense performance indeed, even if he has to struggle against his gutturality and his problems in the upper zone.

I'd also recommend Mario del Monaco's recording from 1958. There's a colourful contrast among the thunderous and spectacular Otello-del Monaco, the exquisite and lyrical Desdemona-de los Ángeles, and the sinister Iago-Warren.

There's a similar contrast in the Karajan's recording with Vickers, Freni and Glossop, except that Vickers sings much less "boomingly" and more elegantly, even if his voice is not particularly beautiful.

The aforementioned are, in my opinion, the best recordings available.

The one conducted by Héctor Panizza is also very good, but Martinelli's voice was in decline, sounds irregular, and he has to skip some high notes and some apianati here and there.

As for Domingo's performances, my recommendation is... none of them. Domingo, as usual, sings in an impersonal, superficial, unnuanced way, with his spurious technique. And when he tries to add some dramatic effects, he's almost grotesque.

Lastly, I know that the recording by Muti/Antonenko/Poplavskaya has received one of those BBC recommendations and all that jazz, but I still think that it's not at the same level than the others. Antonenko is a very interesting tenor, but he often falls in the registro di gola, and his Italian pronunciation is not satisfactory.

Len_Z
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:47 am
Location: New York, NY, USA

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by Len_Z » Sat May 05, 2012 6:10 am

maestrob wrote:You're all missing out on an extraordinary DVD, with Antonenko/Poplavskaya, led by the indomitable Muti. Don't believe the reviewers on Amazon: this is a superb cast with both stunning looks and singing: you will be astounded! 8)

That said, Scotto's Desdemona on DVD with Vickers in the old MET telecast has finally been issued, and I'm here to tell you that her singing for that performance runs rings around her harsher sound on CD.

Both are recommended.

Image

Image
I love Antonenko's voice, but sorry, I just couldn't watch this DVD. The singing was fine, but Antonenko was sweating so profusely that it was really off-putting and distracting. At one point his sweat was even dripping on Poplavskaya's face. I really have no idea how she can take it.

Scotto/Vickers is quite a different story - a truly great performance.

As for the quality of Martinelli/Rethberg, I wonder if anybody heard the MYTO release of it: how does the sound compare to the Naxos set?

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Sat May 05, 2012 6:59 am

<As for the quality of Martinelli/Rethberg, I wonder if anybody heard the MYTO release of it: how does the sound compare to the Naxos set?>

I have both. The Myto is more raw but perhaps more truthful, the Naxos has been smoothed out, but some presence has been lost.

jserraglio
Posts: 5846
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by jserraglio » Sat May 05, 2012 7:00 am

Speaking of Met airchecks, I was surprised to find this one, Szell not being a conductor I usually associate with Verdi. But the performance is excellent and in good sound.

Metropolitan Opera House
February 23, 1946 Matinee Broadcast


OTELLO {83}
Verdi-Boito

Otello..................Torsten Ralf
Desdemona...............Stella Roman
Iago....................Leonard Warren
Emilia..................Martha Lipton
Cassio..................Alessio De Paolis
Lodovico................Nicola Moscona
Montàno.................Kenneth Schon
Roderigo................Anthony Marlowe
Herald..................Wellington Ezekiel

Conductor...............George Szell

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Sat May 05, 2012 7:09 am

<As for Domingo's performances, my recommendation is... none of them. Domingo, as usual, sings in an impersonal, superficial, unnuanced way, with his spurious technique. And when he tries to add some dramatic effects, he's almost grotesque.>

I have read some strange things and then this...
I can understand that someone thinks Domingo too light for Otello, but spurious technique for a singer that has solidly and splendidly delivered for almost 50 years?????
And no, superficial and impersonal are adjectives that I would never apply to Plácido Domingo.
I wonder what Carlos Kleiber, James Levine, Claudio Abbado, Riccardo Muti and scores of others would make of those thoughts.

THEHORN
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:57 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by THEHORN » Sat May 05, 2012 10:02 am

Furtwangler is not a conductor associated with Verdi, but his Salzburg performance from 1951 ,which I have
on EMI is truly amazing . The cast features Ramon Vinay, Dragica Martinis, Paul Schoeffler and Anton Dermota with the VPO.
Furtwang;ler's tempos are somewhat slower than the norn, but his conducting still has enormous thrust and
elemental power , and the cast is excellent .

arepo
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 6:02 pm

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by arepo » Sat May 05, 2012 4:27 pm

Martinelli/Vickers/McCracken/Pertile

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Sat May 05, 2012 8:19 pm

THEHORN wrote:Furtwangler is not a conductor associated with Verdi, but his Salzburg performance from 1951 ,which I have
on EMI is truly amazing . The cast features Ramon Vinay, Dragica Martinis, Paul Schoeffler and Anton Dermota with the VPO.
Furtwang;ler's tempos are somewhat slower than the norn, but his conducting still has enormous thrust and
elemental power , and the cast is excellent .
It´s an extraordinary interpretation, what a pity that the original Festival tapes were lost.
I had the good fortune of discussing with Ramón Vinay his performances with Toscanini and Furtwängler.
Before his death in 1996 he retired in the city of Puebla, about 2 hours from Mexico City. He lived there because his daughter married a Mexican who worked there. He didn´t like to give interviews, but he did coach some young singers he liked, and I happened to be friends with a young baritone who visited him often. I only went twice with him to see him, but they were fascinating visits. He even sang a little of "Niun mi Tema" for us, but most extraordinary he acted unforgettably Otello´s death scene, lying in the floor to our horror at 80+.
Sadly he didn´t allowed us to record our chats, but I remember vividly how he described Toscanini and Furtwängler, and most extraordinary, he unequivocally admired more Furtwängler´s Otello than Toscanini´s!

moreno
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:48 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by moreno » Sun May 06, 2012 7:06 am

josé echenique wrote:<As for Domingo's performances, my recommendation is... none of them. Domingo, as usual, sings in an impersonal, superficial, unnuanced way, with his spurious technique. And when he tries to add some dramatic effects, he's almost grotesque.>

I have read some strange things and then this...
I can understand that someone thinks Domingo too light for Otello, but spurious technique for a singer that has solidly and splendidly delivered for almost 50 years?????
And no, superficial and impersonal are adjectives that I would never apply to Plácido Domingo.
I wonder what Carlos Kleiber, James Levine, Claudio Abbado, Riccardo Muti and scores of others would make of those thoughts.
Why strange? It's an opinion shared almost unanimously by all the independent critics in the western world. Actually, it's a fact rather than an opinion. The characteristics and rules of the good opera singing are well known and he has been ignoring them or unable to apply them since the mid/late 70s.
He's just a marketing product of the recording industry. He sings in the registro di gola, which is the deadliest of the sins in opera singing, since it uglifies the sound and breaks the line of singing. Also, his performances are colourless, and not only that, he sings in the same way a Wagner's opera, a verismo opera or a bolero.
For some reason (whether it be ignorance or commercial interest) some critics, who have more visibility than they deserve, praise anything made by the Spanish tenor, like the British critics that, one fine day, decided that he was the best tenor ever. OK, fantastic.
But believe me, I don't know anyone who, after learning the principles and techniques of the good singing, or after hearing and appreciating the real good singers, goes back to the Domingoes or Kaufmanns.

John F
Posts: 21051
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by John F » Sun May 06, 2012 8:31 am

moreno wrote:Why strange? It's an opinion shared almost unanimously by all the independent critics in the western world.
No, it is not.
moreno wrote:Actually, it's a fact rather than an opinion.
No, it is not.
moreno wrote:The characteristics and rules of the good opera singing are well known and he has been ignoring them or unable to apply them since the mid/late 70s.
If there are "rules of good opera singing," Domingo can't have been ignoring them, as his long, varied, and demanding career prove.

moreno wrote:He's just a marketing product of the recording industry.
That's total nonsense, as those of us who have seen Domingo's performances in the theatre for decades can testify. What actual experience of his live performances do you have?
moreno wrote:He sings in the registro di gola, which is the deadliest of the sins in opera singing, since it uglifies the sound and breaks the line of singing.
Bandying technical terms is not the same as expertise. And to claim that Domingo's singing technique produces "ugly" sound is quite simply not true.
moreno wrote:Also, his performances are colourless, and not only that, he sings in the same way a Wagner's opera, a verismo opera or a bolero.
Again, not true, as those who have seen and heard his Otello and Siegmund at the Metropolitan Opera can abundantly testify.

Despite your pretensions to expertise, you obviously do not know what you're talking about. You're trying to elevate your personal dislike for Domingo and everything about him to the status of a firmly based critical judgment. You've failed, of course.
moreno wrote:But believe me...
Why should we, since just about everything you've said is beyond belief?
John Francis

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Sun May 06, 2012 9:01 am

moreno wrote:
josé echenique wrote:<As for Domingo's performances, my recommendation is... none of them. Domingo, as usual, sings in an impersonal, superficial, unnuanced way, with his spurious technique. And when he tries to add some dramatic effects, he's almost grotesque.>

I have read some strange things and then this...
I can understand that someone thinks Domingo too light for Otello, but spurious technique for a singer that has solidly and splendidly delivered for almost 50 years?????
And no, superficial and impersonal are adjectives that I would never apply to Plácido Domingo.
I wonder what Carlos Kleiber, James Levine, Claudio Abbado, Riccardo Muti and scores of others would make of those thoughts.
Why strange? It's an opinion shared almost unanimously by all the independent critics in the western world. Actually, it's a fact rather than an opinion. The characteristics and rules of the good opera singing are well known and he has been ignoring them or unable to apply them since the mid/late 70s.
He's just a marketing product of the recording industry. He sings in the registro di gola, which is the deadliest of the sins in opera singing, since it uglifies the sound and breaks the line of singing. Also, his performances are colourless, and not only that, he sings in the same way a Wagner's opera, a verismo opera or a bolero.
For some reason (whether it be ignorance or commercial interest) some critics, who have more visibility than they deserve, praise anything made by the Spanish tenor, like the British critics that, one fine day, decided that he was the best tenor ever. OK, fantastic.
But believe me, I don't know anyone who, after learning the principles and techniques of the good singing, or after hearing and appreciating the real good singers, goes back to the Domingoes or Kaufmanns.
Technique is a relative thing, some singers with reputedly a great technique have had short careers, and others with debatable voice production have had long and distinguished careers. Domingo has been singing the most demanding tenor repertoire for decades, he is not known for frequent cancellations (like Caballé who is said to have a fabulous technique), and as I said before -as if it needed to be said- his professionalism is confirmed by the most important conductors of our time who have worked with him.
In my previous post I mentioned Ramón Vinay, who was present in Domingo´s Otello debut at the MET. I don´t remember if Domingo himself or the MET invited him for the evening, but he was very complementary about Domingo´s Otello. He even said that no other tenor since Pertile had done so much, so well.
Enough said.

moreno
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:48 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by moreno » Sun May 06, 2012 9:54 am

josé echenique wrote: Technique is a relative thing, [...]
Not so relative, in my opinion. I think there's a consensus on whether an artist has a good technique or not.
josé echenique wrote: [...]some singers with reputedly a great technique have had short careers, and others with debatable voice production have had long and distinguished careers. Domingo has been singing the most demanding tenor repertoire for decades, [...]
Developing a long and high quality career is indeed a difficult task, but it has to do with knowing your voice, being aware of your forté, of your shortcomings, of how it evolves, and singing the most appropriate works for your characteristics. One can fail at that even if he/she has a good technique.
This is what happened with Domingo: he lost his voice's good qualities, as the most renowned critics predicted. Like Rodolfo Celletti, who also said about him: "You'll never hear a conductor -maybe not even a critic- reveal that Mr. Domingo suppresses an infinity of expression signs and that, in the proximity of certain high notes, he lingers or accelerates or scatters the phrase, resuming the fiato where it's not supposed to."
josé echenique wrote: [...]he is not known for frequent cancellations (like Caballé who is said to have a fabulous technique), and as I said before -as if it needed to be said- his professionalism is confirmed by the most important conductors of our time who have worked with him.
In my previous post I mentioned Ramón Vinay, who was present in Domingo´s Otello debut at the MET. I don´t remember if Domingo himself or the MET invited him for the evening, but he was very complementary about Domingo´s Otello. He even said that no other tenor since Pertile had done so much, so well.
Enough said.

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Sun May 06, 2012 10:00 am

moreno wrote:
josé echenique wrote: Technique is a relative thing, [...]
Not so relative, in my opinion. I think there's a consensus on whether an artist has a good technique or not.
josé echenique wrote: [...]some singers with reputedly a great technique have had short careers, and others with debatable voice production have had long and distinguished careers. Domingo has been singing the most demanding tenor repertoire for decades, [...]
Developing a long and high quality career is indeed a difficult task, but it has to do with knowing your voice, being aware of your forté, of your shortcomings, of how it evolves, and singing the most appropriate works for your characteristics. One can fail at that even if he/she has a good technique.
This is what happened with Domingo: he lost his voice's good qualities, as the most renowned critics predicted. Like Rodolfo Celletti, who also said about him: "You'll never hear a conductor -maybe not even a critic- reveal that Mr. Domingo suppresses an infinity of expression signs and that, in the proximity of certain high notes, he lingers or accelerates or scatters the phrase, resuming the fiato where it's not supposed to."
josé echenique wrote: [...]he is not known for frequent cancellations (like Caballé who is said to have a fabulous technique), and as I said before -as if it needed to be said- his professionalism is confirmed by the most important conductors of our time who have worked with him.
In my previous post I mentioned Ramón Vinay, who was present in Domingo´s Otello debut at the MET. I don´t remember if Domingo himself or the MET invited him for the evening, but he was very complementary about Domingo´s Otello. He even said that no other tenor since Pertile had done so much, so well.
Enough said.
Rodolfo Celletti? Oh please, he has condemned Franco Corelli and praised Bocelli

John F
Posts: 21051
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by John F » Sun May 06, 2012 11:05 am

Renowned critics of the time took a dim view of Caruso's style and his method of singing, compared with the likes of Fernando de Lucia (who, by the way, sang Canio in the premiere of "Pagliacci"). The critics were wrong and they're quite forgotten. Those who take a similar view of Placido Domingo's style and his approach to singing will go the same way, if they haven't already.

On the other hand, J.B. Steane, the critic who has not only heard but studied and assessed and written about more vocal recordings than any of his colleagues alive or dead - cf. "The Grand Tradition" - writes five pages about Domingo on records and in the flesh that celebrate the voice in its own right, the musicianship, and the acting on the stage and with the voice. On the latter: "Domingo's earlier records were sometimes faulted in this respect, that they failed to go beyond a generalized expressiveness, not personal enough to be very memorable. I doubt whether anyone would say that after having followed through his recording of Dick Johnson's role in 'La Fanciulla del West' (1977) or Radamès in the 'Aida' under Abbado (1981), or who has listened to his inspired Faust in a generally uninspired recording of Boito's 'Mefistofele' (1973), or indeed who has come across his recent comic cameo of Don Basilio's solo in 'Le Nozze di Figaro.'" (Singers of the Century: Volume 2, Amadeus Press: 1998, pp. 138-42) And those recordings were made decades ago.
John Francis

maestrob
Posts: 6487
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by maestrob » Sun May 06, 2012 11:22 am

Domingo's Otello is one of the most effective on records. Levine was actually against Domingo's choice to assume the role at so young an age, but the Maestro quickly offered to work with him and coach Domingo in this most demanding part: the results show both Domingo's great talent and Levine's inspired leadership in the RCA recording.

I have heard Domingo live in Otello, Samson, Siegmund and Don Carlo, and, frankly, the only role that sounded comfortable for him live was Don Carlo to my ears, but on mike Domingo sounded fine in the heavier roles, so my experience is a mixed bag. Certainly, PD never embarassed himself, though he did sound a bit strained live in the heavier roles. In my mind, that doesn't take away from his Great Singer status, though.

arepo
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 6:02 pm

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by arepo » Sun May 06, 2012 12:03 pm

John F wrote:
moreno wrote:Why strange? It's an opinion shared almost unanimously by all the independent critics in the western world.
No, it is not.
moreno wrote:Actually, it's a fact rather than an opinion.
No, it is not.
moreno wrote:The characteristics and rules of the good opera singing are well known and he has been ignoring them or unable to apply them since the mid/late 70s.
If there are "rules of good opera singing," Domingo can't have been ignoring them, as his long, varied, and demanding career prove.

moreno wrote:He's just a marketing product of the recording industry.
That's total nonsense, as those of us who have seen Domingo's performances in the theatre for decades can testify. What actual experience of his live performances do you have?
moreno wrote:He sings in the registro di gola, which is the deadliest of the sins in opera singing, since it uglifies the sound and breaks the line of singing.
Bandying technical terms is not the same as expertise. And to claim that Domingo's singing technique produces "ugly" sound is quite simply not true.
moreno wrote:Also, his performances are colourless, and not only that, he sings in the same way a Wagner's opera, a verismo opera or a bolero.
Again, not true, as those who have seen and heard his Otello and Siegmund at the Metropolitan Opera can abundantly testify.

Despite your pretensions to expertise, you obviously do not know what you're talking about. You're trying to elevate your personal dislike for Domingo and everything about him to the status of a firmly based critical judgment. You've failed, of course.
moreno wrote:But believe me...
Why should we, since just about everything you've said is beyond belief?
My favorite posts on this thread.
John F. you are truly brilliant.

Steinway
Posts: 2147
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:08 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by Steinway » Sun May 06, 2012 12:11 pm

For my money, McCracken reigns supreme. :lol:

James McCracken, Dame Gwyneth Jones, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.

Barbirolli/ New Philharmonia Orchestra

hangos
Posts: 983
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: England

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by hangos » Sun May 06, 2012 2:20 pm

Cliftwood wrote:For my money, McCracken reigns supreme. :lol:

James McCracken, Dame Gwyneth Jones, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.

Barbirolli/ New Philharmonia Orchestra
A truly great performance and excellent recording, I agree - apart from Fischer-Dieskau's unfortunate tendency to shout ; also, for all his subtlety with words, he sounds a touch "heavy" compared to singers such as Valdengo. Perhaps it's just me!
Martin

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Sun May 06, 2012 7:55 pm

hangos wrote:
Cliftwood wrote:For my money, McCracken reigns supreme. :lol:

James McCracken, Dame Gwyneth Jones, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.

Barbirolli/ New Philharmonia Orchestra
A truly great performance and excellent recording, I agree - apart from Fischer-Dieskau's unfortunate tendency to shout ; also, for all his subtlety with words, he sounds a touch "heavy" compared to singers such as Valdengo. Perhaps it's just me!
Martin
Did you know that the original EMI plan was to record this Otello with Franco Corelli, Montserrat Caballé and DFD? Corelli actually learned the role for the recording, but not surprisingly he shy away when it was under preparation. Caballé broke a leg in Verona that summer where she was singing Don Carlo and only Mr. Julia Varady remained of the original cast. (Whatever misgivings you have about his singing he is the most musically observant Iago on records, he obeys as humanly possible all the multiple markings Verdi put in the score).
Corelli often said that it was a mistake to have cancelled the recording. From Otello he can be heard in the love duet with Teresa Zylis-Gara under Karl Böhm in the 1972 MET Bing Gala. And even more interesting there´s a magnificent "Niun mi tema" from a late live recital with piano.
Like Pavarotti, he didn´t have the baritonal color for Otello, but at least he would have been interesting.

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Sun May 06, 2012 8:26 pm

maestrob wrote:Domingo's Otello is one of the most effective on records. Levine was actually against Domingo's choice to assume the role at so young an age, but the Maestro quickly offered to work with him and coach Domingo in this most demanding part: the results show both Domingo's great talent and Levine's inspired leadership in the RCA recording.

I have heard Domingo live in Otello, Samson, Siegmund and Don Carlo, and, frankly, the only role that sounded comfortable for him live was Don Carlo to my ears, but on mike Domingo sounded fine in the heavier roles, so my experience is a mixed bag. Certainly, PD never embarassed himself, though he did sound a bit strained live in the heavier roles. In my mind, that doesn't take away from his Great Singer status, though.
Domingo first sang Otello under Carlos Kleiber at La Scala, 2 years before the RCA recording, so I bet there´s something of Kleiber too in his performance. I heard him sing Otello here in Mexico City in 1980, and even though he was reputedly ill, he was magnificent, granted that he didn´t produce the decibels of a Giuseppe Giacomini and Vladimir Atlantov, the 2 biggest voiced Otellos of my lifetime. But on the other hand he was more musical and elegant than either, and as an actor he was quite simply in a different class.
Every time I heard Domingo sing a heavy role there was no aural effort or discomfort. I particularly remember a quite early (1977) Cav/Pag in Verona that can only be described as stunning, he sang the whole evening with ease and power, and then at a 1986 Andrea Chenier at the opening of the Vienna State Opera he received a 1:30 hour ovation, and trust me, the Viennese are picky at what they applaud. The final duet was a vocal apotheosis, with Eva Marton on top form, and Domingo was glorious. His performance has been wonderfully preserved in a Covent Garden video of the same year, but with Anna Tomowa-Sintow.
And I also have indelible memories of his superb Radamés at the opening of the new Houston Wortham Theatre in 1987, with Freni, Wixell and Ghiaurov, conducted by the late Emil Tchakarov. Freni was of course overtaxed as Aida and her voice spread alarmingly, but Domingo once more sang like a prince, he managed to sing in mezza voce the exposed last note of Celesta Aida and had magnificent vocal reserves for "Sacerdote, io resto a te". All in all, and by a distance, the finest Radamés I have heard in my life.

maestrob
Posts: 6487
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by maestrob » Mon May 07, 2012 11:32 am

josé echenique wrote:
maestrob wrote:Domingo's Otello is one of the most effective on records. Levine was actually against Domingo's choice to assume the role at so young an age, but the Maestro quickly offered to work with him and coach Domingo in this most demanding part: the results show both Domingo's great talent and Levine's inspired leadership in the RCA recording.

I have heard Domingo live in Otello, Samson, Siegmund and Don Carlo, and, frankly, the only role that sounded comfortable for him live was Don Carlo to my ears, but on mike Domingo sounded fine in the heavier roles, so my experience is a mixed bag. Certainly, PD never embarassed himself, though he did sound a bit strained live in the heavier roles. In my mind, that doesn't take away from his Great Singer status, though.
Domingo first sang Otello under Carlos Kleiber at La Scala, 2 years before the RCA recording, so I bet there´s something of Kleiber too in his performance. I heard him sing Otello here in Mexico City in 1980, and even though he was reputedly ill, he was magnificent, granted that he didn´t produce the decibels of a Giuseppe Giacomini and Vladimir Atlantov, the 2 biggest voiced Otellos of my lifetime. But on the other hand he was more musical and elegant than either, and as an actor he was quite simply in a different class.
Every time I heard Domingo sing a heavy role there was no aural effort or discomfort. I particularly remember a quite early (1977) Cav/Pag in Verona that can only be described as stunning, he sang the whole evening with ease and power, and then at a 1986 Andrea Chenier at the opening of the Vienna State Opera he received a 1:30 hour ovation, and trust me, the Viennese are picky at what they applaud. The final duet was a vocal apotheosis, with Eva Marton on top form, and Domingo was glorious. His performance has been wonderfully preserved in a Covent Garden video of the same year, but with Anna Tomowa-Sintow.
And I also have indelible memories of his superb Radamés at the opening of the new Houston Wortham Theatre in 1987, with Freni, Wixell and Ghiaurov, conducted by the late Emil Tchakarov. Freni was of course overtaxed as Aida and her voice spread alarmingly, but Domingo once more sang like a prince, he managed to sing in mezza voce the exposed last note of Celesta Aida and had magnificent vocal reserves for "Sacerdote, io resto a te". All in all, and by a distance, the finest Radamés I have heard in my life.
Pepe:

I would agree with you that Domingo would be very suitable for the roles you mentioned, but Samson, Otello and Siegmund are written for a stronger (i.e. heavier) fach than Domingo commanded, even at his best.

As a voice teacher, I can only marvel at Domingo's stamina: his ability to withstand the rigors of such heavier roles speaks to an incredible vocal intelligence and awareness of his own instrument, a talent that few singers posess, even many of the greats.

John F
Posts: 21051
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by John F » Mon May 07, 2012 12:47 pm

Have you heard Domingo sing Otello and Siegmund in the opera house? I have, fairly often, and I've never found his voice or his manner of singing weak in any respect. Admittedly his voice isn't as loud as Mario Del Monaco's, but it was certainly loud enough.

There's a stereotype for robusto or Heldentenor roles that is based on the qualities of a very few singers of those roles - Melchior as Siegmund and Siegfried, certainly, and Del Monaco as Otello. But the greatest Siegfried and Tristan I ever heard - and I think the greatest of our time - was Wolfgang Windgassen, who never bowled anybody over with the sheer strength or loudness of his singing. And while I never heard Del Monaco's Otello in the house, only his Don José, on the evidence of his recordings I would never set his achievement in the role above Domingo's.

As a voice teacher, it's wise of you to advise students not to take on roles for which their voices, and their technique and experience as well, aren't yet suited (if they ever will be). But Domingo was nearly 40 when he first sang Otello, with over 20 years of professional singing behind him including challenging roles like Canio and Hoffmann. He did not just "withstand the rigors" of such roles, he thrived. Windgassen sang his first Siegfried at about the same age as Domingo's first Otello, after 14 years' experience in the opera house, and continued with a steady diet of Helden roles for the rest of his career (he died at 60), preserving his voice as well as Domingo has. Seems to me that they have something to teach us about vocal stereotypes!

P.S. At the library I've been looking into the Domingo books - three of them. Helena Matheopoulos's introduction to Domingo's book about his roles paraphrases him as saying, "The more he sings, the better he sounds, no one understands his voice better than him - and to no one is it as important... Otello is a dramatic part and Domingo a lirico spinto tenor. But from the beginning it was clear that this was an ideal role for him - so much so, that he has always found that his voice sounds more lyrical after singing Otello... To sum up. no one should judge Domingo according to their own limitations." Speaking for himself: "Far from harming me vocally or in any other way, 'Otello' gradually revealed to me a new way of singing that has made the rest of my repertoire much easier for me." It's mentioned that he sang the role over 200 times before relinquishing it a few seasons ago.

P.P.S. "Singing Parsifal and Siegmund improves my high register. Maybe because I color them in a different way, and since I never use the extreme registers to the hilt, I feel very good after Wagner and even sing my romantic repertoire better." However, he chose to sing Tristan and Tannhauser once each, in studio sessions only and not in the theater.
Last edited by John F on Mon May 07, 2012 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
John Francis

hangos
Posts: 983
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: England

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by hangos » Mon May 07, 2012 12:54 pm

In addition to his vocal prowess, Domingo is a consummate actor on the opera stage, with a very mobile and expressive face
Martin

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Mon May 07, 2012 5:38 pm

maestrob wrote:
josé echenique wrote:
maestrob wrote:Domingo's Otello is one of the most effective on records. Levine was actually against Domingo's choice to assume the role at so young an age, but the Maestro quickly offered to work with him and coach Domingo in this most demanding part: the results show both Domingo's great talent and Levine's inspired leadership in the RCA recording.

I have heard Domingo live in Otello, Samson, Siegmund and Don Carlo, and, frankly, the only role that sounded comfortable for him live was Don Carlo to my ears, but on mike Domingo sounded fine in the heavier roles, so my experience is a mixed bag. Certainly, PD never embarassed himself, though he did sound a bit strained live in the heavier roles. In my mind, that doesn't take away from his Great Singer status, though.
Domingo first sang Otello under Carlos Kleiber at La Scala, 2 years before the RCA recording, so I bet there´s something of Kleiber too in his performance. I heard him sing Otello here in Mexico City in 1980, and even though he was reputedly ill, he was magnificent, granted that he didn´t produce the decibels of a Giuseppe Giacomini and Vladimir Atlantov, the 2 biggest voiced Otellos of my lifetime. But on the other hand he was more musical and elegant than either, and as an actor he was quite simply in a different class.
Every time I heard Domingo sing a heavy role there was no aural effort or discomfort. I particularly remember a quite early (1977) Cav/Pag in Verona that can only be described as stunning, he sang the whole evening with ease and power, and then at a 1986 Andrea Chenier at the opening of the Vienna State Opera he received a 1:30 hour ovation, and trust me, the Viennese are picky at what they applaud. The final duet was a vocal apotheosis, with Eva Marton on top form, and Domingo was glorious. His performance has been wonderfully preserved in a Covent Garden video of the same year, but with Anna Tomowa-Sintow.
And I also have indelible memories of his superb Radamés at the opening of the new Houston Wortham Theatre in 1987, with Freni, Wixell and Ghiaurov, conducted by the late Emil Tchakarov. Freni was of course overtaxed as Aida and her voice spread alarmingly, but Domingo once more sang like a prince, he managed to sing in mezza voce the exposed last note of Celesta Aida and had magnificent vocal reserves for "Sacerdote, io resto a te". All in all, and by a distance, the finest Radamés I have heard in my life.
Pepe:

I would agree with you that Domingo would be very suitable for the roles you mentioned, but Samson, Otello and Siegmund are written for a stronger (i.e. heavier) fach than Domingo commanded, even at his best.

As a voice teacher, I can only marvel at Domingo's stamina: his ability to withstand the rigors of such heavier roles speaks to an incredible vocal intelligence and awareness of his own instrument, a talent that few singers posess, even many of the greats.
Domingo was certainly a unique vocal phenomenon that just can´t be explained. First of all he sang way too much, like to fill 3 singing lifetimes, and he sang just about everything. Around 1972 he had a vocal crisis (Domingo talks about this in his first biography "My First 40 Years", at the time he recorded the RCA Norma with Caballé and Cossotto) and he emerged unharmed and even in better form.
Occasionally he sang with the voice alarmingly misplaced. It´s audible in the Manon Lescaut video from the Royal Opera House with Kiri Te Kanawa conducted by Sinopoli (Moreno could have a field day with that performance, but I don´t think it can be defined as a general "spurious technique" because it obviously was a one performance problem). Any other singer would have lost the voice right there, but Domingo seems to be protected by some invisible and magnanimous vocal chord Brünnhilde.
I have heard him sing in several theaters, large and small, in 3 continents since the mid-70´s and I have never heard him off form or canceling a performance. Perhaps I´ve been lucky, but he is not one of those singers famous for not showing up.

It is true that Otello ideally needs more squillo than Domingo can provide, but I wouldn´t say he´s found wanting as the Moor. Maybe he´s in the vocal borderline of Otello, but manages to cross the line and stay safe. After several hundreds of performances he should know.

maestrob
Posts: 6487
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by maestrob » Tue May 08, 2012 10:50 am

JohnF:

Yes, I have heard PD in house in the roles I mentioned, as well as others (Samson, Otello, Siegmund). What's intriguing is that the SAME roles on record sound perfectly OK to my ears (except the b'cast of Samson in which he sound strained, compared to, say, Vickers). To repeat myself, he sounded strained in the live performances I heard in the above roles.

Domingo did indeed go through a vocal change, which made his top notes uncomfortable or sometimes unreachable. I remember a Boheme b'cast from the MET in the early 1980's where the first act aria (Che gelida manina) had to be taken down a major 2nd so the high C turned into a Bb (or was it an A?). These things happen in many major careers, so there's no use making a fuss, but it did occur.

OTOH, when he was first starting his career as a tenor, I have a live performance of Boheme w/Tebaldi in the mid '60's (led by La Selva in Boston) which shows Domingo with the light, easy top that launched his career, where the high C's come easily and his tone floats out over everything: breathtaking!

As for Del Monaco, he's rarely a model I would hold up, except in Aida with Callas in Mexico City in 1951, where he sings like a God! 8)

THEHORN
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:57 am

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by THEHORN » Tue May 08, 2012 12:29 pm

The late Lawrence Olivier admired Domingo's acting in the role of Otello so much he thought it was better than his own acting in the original Shakespeare play ! He was almost envious, saying "and the bastard can sing, too !"

hangos
Posts: 983
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: England

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by hangos » Tue May 08, 2012 1:33 pm

THEHORN wrote:The late Lawrence Olivier admired Domingo's acting in the role of Otello so much he thought it was better than his own acting in the original Shakespeare play ! He was almost envious, saying "and the bastard can sing, too !"
Well I never! For Sir Larry to be so complimentary speaks volumes (and even a philistine like me can discern PD's acting ability - even in the 1990 Three Tenors concert from Rome he "acted" during some arias, unlike Pavarotti and Carreras, who seemed to be concentrating exclusively on singing, whereas PD seemed to sing and act effortlessly at the same time)
Martin

John F
Posts: 21051
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by John F » Tue May 08, 2012 11:42 pm

It was mutual - Domingo has said his conception of Othello was influenced by Olivier's striking characterization, with the African still there beneath a veneer of Venetian cosmopolitanism.
John Francis

hangos
Posts: 983
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: England

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by hangos » Tue May 15, 2012 8:45 am

bump! :D (worth resurrecting before it descends to page 2!)
Martin

barney
Posts: 3474
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by barney » Tue May 15, 2012 7:51 pm

An honourable mention to Mark Elder's ECO set with Rosalind Plowright. Not the greatest, but a solid achievement. Rosalind Plowright sop, Charles Craig ten, Neil Howlett bar,

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Tue May 15, 2012 8:41 pm

Also a honorable mention for Solti´s first recording of Otello with Carlo Cossutta, Margaret Price and Gabriel Bacquier. This recording was very well produced, and it includes some superb singers in secondary roles like Kurt Equiluz. This recording appeared almost exactly as the Domingo/Levine, and inevitably Domingo caught the limelight, but Carlo Cossutta is far from negligible in the title role, and Margaret Price sings a heavenly Desdemona, easily matching Tebaldi in vocal beauty in the Karajan recording. I remember this recording sounding spectacularly well in LP, but for some reason the cd transfer was not that successful.

And what about the Pavarotti Otello? Some people tell the most horrific stories about the Chicago and NY concerts. Granted that he was not meant by nature for this role, I´ll say one thing in his favor, I like a lot how he ENUNCIATES the text, how he, as a native speaker savors the Italian language. In fact I found far more disappointing Kiri Te Kanawa as Desdemona and Leo Nucci as Iago. Far from the greatest Otello ever, but I think Pavarotti is worth a listen every now and then.

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 18241
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by Lance » Thu May 17, 2012 1:19 am

The Toscanini and Furtwängler are right up there for me. Did I miss anything or did someone say something about the Fritz Busch-conducted performance that appeared on Membran (probably some other labels, too) of the live 1948[?] performance w/R Vinay, L Albanese, Leonard Warren, N Moscona, C Harvuot, others w/Metropolitan Opera Orchestra & Chorus. I must admit great curiosity about the Furtwängler performance since it is hard to put that one into one's imagination about him conducting the work. Is the Furtwängler EMI recording [65751] a different recording than the Membran? EMI calls it a 1951 performance, not 1948. I'm not near my discs to verify this. I grew up with the RCA/Vickers performance, which holds a special place for me, and another Vickers EMI/Amadeus with von Karajan.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

John F
Posts: 21051
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by John F » Thu May 17, 2012 4:29 am

Furtwängler conducted "Otello" only once, at the Salzburg Festival in 1951, and all published recordings are of the Austrian Radio live broadcast of August 7, the production's opening night. All of them are based on off-the-air home recordings and the sound is poor - what consumer tape recorders were on the market in Germany and Austria back then? I gather that EMI used more than one source, splicing together the better-sounding bits; Membran, whoever they are, most likely used just one source, that being a previously published CD or LP release.
John Francis

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 18241
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by Lance » Fri May 18, 2012 2:06 am

Membran/Documents is known to "swipe" material from many sources and then reissue the material at really low prices, such as the 10-CD boxed sets of great conductors we have seen over the years. Initially, they were do marked with improper equalization methods that the performances from these discs were literally unlistenable. Membran seems to have cleaned up their act substantially. Insofar as the home recording equipment of "yesterday," we certainly have come along way in the 21st century.
John F wrote:Furtwängler conducted "Otello" only once, at the Salzburg Festival in 1951, and all published recordings are of the Austrian Radio live broadcast of August 7, the production's opening night. All of them are based on off-the-air home recordings and the sound is poor - what consumer tape recorders were on the market in Germany and Austria back then? I gather that EMI used more than one source, splicing together the better-sounding bits; Membran, whoever they are, most likely used just one source, that being a previously published CD or LP release.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

moreno
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:48 am

Re: THe greatest recording of Otello?

Post by moreno » Sat May 19, 2012 12:27 pm

John F wrote:[...]
On the other hand, J.B. Steane, the critic who has not only heard but studied and assessed and written about more vocal recordings than any of his colleagues alive or dead - cf. "The Grand Tradition" - writes five pages about Domingo on records and in the flesh that celebrate the voice in its own right, the musicianship, and the acting on the stage and with the voice. [...]
:-D
So this is your argument from authority.
Obviously you're clueless on the subject. You're not acquainted with the way to discuss these matters, that's why you're dismissing the use of technical terms.
At first I didn't want to waste my time responding to your nonsense, since, judging by the time you're devoting to the forum, you're a pathetic loser with no life, seeking desperately recognition from your mates, faking expertise in something you can't fully understand.
But I'm fed up with you stalking me in this forum and finally decided to unmask you, supposing there's still someone who thinks your opinions are worth a penny.
There's only one positive thing about it: Internet forums are exposed to the world, and they shall be for years, so everyone will have the chance to laugh at how some people can misunderstand classical music in general and opera in particular.
So long and get a life.

josé echenique
Posts: 2521
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: The greatest recording of Otello?

Post by josé echenique » Sat May 19, 2012 10:54 pm

I am really sorry for Moreno. I would never deny him the right to like or dislike whomever he wants, even if it´s Plácido Domingo.
What´s obviously much more difficult to take is his insistence that Domingo is a "bad" singer with a deficient technique. Domingo made his debut as far back as the early 60´s. He was already singing Lucia with Lily Pons when he was barely 21 and is still singing today!!!! Is that a bad technique? NONSENSE!!!
His vocal longevity has been longer lasting than even Mattia Battistini´s who sang from 1878 to 1927.
It´s laughable to say that his vocal technique was not good. And even worse to invoke the wisdom of Rodolfo Celetti to whom maybe only Rubini and Mario sang well (did he ever hear them?).

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 53 guests