Schumann's symphony number 2

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lennygoran
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Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by lennygoran » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:55 am

I decided over the last several days to listen to Schumann Symphonies-turned out I wasn't familiar with his symphony number 2-I love his 3 other symphonies-after 2 listenings of his second I wasn't getting much satisfaction-don't even know if I should keep at it-right now his second symphony doesn't seem to come close to his others? Last night while in the kitchen I listened to Schumann Symphonie N°4 & Piano Concerto Wilhelm Kempff, Rafael Kubelik-the video could have been better but I was working in the kitchen and was only interested in the sound which I enjoyed. How does Wilhelm Kempff measure up to others? Regards, Len



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4JO4TEs55A

John F
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by John F » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:31 pm

The second was the last of the Schumann symphonies that I heard; after the third, it's my favorite. That doesn't mean you should "keep at it" if you don't much like it. As for Wilhelm Kempff, he's one of many great pianists of the last century, but I haven't heard him play the Schumann concerto, of which there are many fine recordings.
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maestrob
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by maestrob » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:38 pm

Just curious....

What conductor were you listening to in Schumann II? With Schumann, the conductor makes a major difference, as he/she provides the glue that holds the music together. My favorites are Solti/Vienna and Bernstein/NY. Also, one of Abbado's last recordings was an excellent Schumann II.

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John F
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by John F » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:04 pm

You are probably asking Len, but my answer is, Leopold Stokowski and "His Symphony Orchestra." This is the only Schumann symphony Stokey conducted and he did it repeatedly. RCA Victor's sound is rather blowsy; Seth Winner tells me they hired a small compliment of strings for these sessions, then inflated their sound artificially. But I still think this is how the music ought to go.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMm7uWzOS7k
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lennygoran
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by lennygoran » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:06 pm

Brian kubelik. Len

lennygoran
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by lennygoran » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:08 pm

John I will try yours tonight-thanks. Len

lennygoran
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by lennygoran » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:39 pm

John F wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:31 pm
The second was the last of the Schumann symphonies that I heard; after the third, it's my favorite. That doesn't mean you should "keep at it" i
John I listened to it again-Harding conducting from the Proms-I got more out of it this time-I'm glad I didn't give up on it! Regards, Len :D

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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by John F » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:19 am

Daniel Hardng seems to me the wrong kind of conductor for this music - hard and fast - but maybe he's getting better as he matures. Anyway, glad you're enjoying the music more.
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lennygoran
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by lennygoran » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:33 am

John F wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:19 am
Daniel Hardng seems to me the wrong kind of conductor for this music - hard and fast - but maybe he's getting better as he matures. Anyway, glad you're enjoying the music more.
John I'm looking forward to hearing it again tonight-I wanted to find yours--" Leopold Stokowski and "His Symphony Orchestra"--but using the roku and my downstairs TV which connects with the upstairs modem I couldn't find that one--searching with the roku remote can be awkward--there are so many choices out there for listening to this symphony--I'll try again later to get to your choice. Regards, Len

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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by John F » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:38 am

I provided a YouTube link for it. Doesn't the link work?
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lennygoran
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by lennygoran » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:53 am

John F wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:38 am
I provided a YouTube link for it. Doesn't the link work?
John yes but that's for my computer-just a click and I'm there--downstairs I had typed in a Schumann Stokowski search with the roku remote-wait a second-maybe I can just type in the link and see what happens-I'll give that a try! Regards, Len

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMm7uWzOS7k

lennygoran
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by lennygoran » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:10 am

John F wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:38 am
I provided a YouTube link for it. Doesn't the link work?
I finally was able to find it by typing in with the remote "Stokowski Schumann"-no suggestionions were offered as they usually are but when I went to the remote's search button it got me there-I'm listening to it right now! Regards, Len

BTW is there a difference iyo between the link you provided and this other one with the american Symphony?

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John F
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by John F » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:45 am

They're two different performances. The one I spoke of is what I bought back in the 1950s; haven't heard the other one.
Last edited by John F on Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lennygoran
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by lennygoran » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:50 pm

John F wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:45 am
They're two different performances. The one I spoke of is what I bought back in the 190s; haven't heard the other one.
Thanks, I'll be using yours again as I work in the kitchen tonight-I could listen to the other one but someone with my level of knowledge probably wouldn't even detect the differences if there are any-all I know is I have another musical treasure to enjoy! Regards, Len :D

parsifal
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by parsifal » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:32 am

I have always found Daniel Harding as being a good Schumann conductor. He is working in Stockholm. he says that Schumann is his favorite composer. My favorite recording is by Sawallisch. The Zinman-set is also good. The Klemperer-set is marred by the symphonies 2 and 3, I think.
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by John F » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:08 am

I've listened to the Proms performance conducted by Harding and while parts of it are fine, the scherzo gets Harding's slam-bang treatment, the timpani played with hard sticks throughout. Not for me, I'm afraid.
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by maestrob » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:05 am

parsifal wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:32 am
I have always found Daniel Harding as being a good Schumann conductor. He is working in Stockholm. he says that Schumann is his favorite composer. My favorite recording is by Sawallisch. The Zinman-set is also good. The Klemperer-set is marred by the symphonies 2 and 3, I think.
Kjell Nilsson.
Sawallisch is very good, I agree, but I warmly recommend the Solti/Vienna set for $10 while it's still available.

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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by Lance » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:08 pm

It is interesting to observe that Schumann's Symphony No. 2 was actually the third by the time it was complete. And the Third (Rhenish) was actually the last symphony he wrote. It is the publication dates of the symphonies that confuses many with regard to their numbered sequence.
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John F
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by John F » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:48 pm

If Schumann hadn't revised the symphony now numbered 4, it would have had an earlier date and the numbers would be right. This kind of thing happens with other composers too, e.g. Dvorak.
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Heck148
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by Heck148 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:17 pm

Schumann Sym #2 is an excellent work...I don't know if it's my favorite Schumann - but as with Brahms - whichever I'm listening to is my favorite at the time!! :)

Bernstein/NYPO and Szell are very good - Barenboim/Chicago is excellent and has the best mvt II Scherzo I've ever heard - crackling fast tempo, and the strings just nail it, real section bravura playing!!
But my overall favorite is Reiner/CSO from live concert for WBAI broadcast 10/57..this is one of those wonderful performances that simply grows, escalates as it progresses...excellent first mvt, sparkling, lively scherzo , lovely, beautifully phrased slow movement [beautiful oboe/bassoon solo work], and a rousing finale climaxing with the great timpani shots at the very end...
fun work to play, as are all the Schumann symphonies...

maestrob
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by maestrob » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:56 am

Heck148 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:17 pm
Schumann Sym #2 is an excellent work...I don't know if it's my favorite Schumann - but as with Brahms - whichever I'm listening to is my favorite at the time!! :)

Bernstein/NYPO and Szell are very good - Barenboim/Chicago is excellent and has the best mvt II Scherzo I've ever heard - crackling fast tempo, and the strings just nail it, real section bravura playing!!
But my overall favorite is Reiner/CSO from live concert for WBAI broadcast 10/57..this is one of those wonderful performances that simply grows, escalates as it progresses...excellent first mvt, sparkling, lively scherzo , lovely, beautifully phrased slow movement [beautiful oboe/bassoon solo work], and a rousing finale climaxing with the great timpani shots at the very end...
fun work to play, as are all the Schumann symphonies...
IIRC, Szell re-wrote the wind and brass parts slightly to accommodate the slightly extended ranges of modern instruments: you probably know more about that than I do!

Schumann wrote for different instruments than are played today. Since today's instruments are louder and have different ranges, Mahler thought that Schumann's orchestration was too thick for modern orchestras; thus he rescored Schumann's symphonies in subtle ways. The results have been recorded, and sound quite good to my ears: the scores were published by James Warren Mason, but are now out of print. The CDs recorded by Chailly in 2008 for Decca are still available.

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Philip M
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by Philip M » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:46 pm

The finest Schumann 2 I have heard is Daniel Harding with LSO. Sadly not on YouTube but try this - especially movements 2 and 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zwc59c7b4

lennygoran
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by lennygoran » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:50 pm

Philip M wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:46 pm
The finest Schumann 2 I have heard is Daniel Harding with LSO. Sadly not on YouTube but try this - especially movements 2 and 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zwc59c7b4
Thanks, I'll give that a try sometime soon. Regards, Len

maestrob
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by maestrob » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:22 am

Philip M wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:46 pm
The finest Schumann 2 I have heard is Daniel Harding with LSO. Sadly not on YouTube but try this - especially movements 2 and 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zwc59c7b4
Hello, Philip, and welcome. :) I just tried to access the link you posted with Google Chrome, but the video didn't play. I'll try with another browser later......

maestrob
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Re: Schumann's symphony number 2

Post by maestrob » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:08 pm

Just finished listening to Harding's Schumann II. What an eexcellent performance! Thanks for posting! Harding definitely has good instincts with regard to romantic music, IMHO. I have the CD below with Harding leading the Vienna Philharmonic with Renaud Capucon in the Brahms Violin Concerto (also the Berg) and recommend it highly. This recording of the Brahms highlights the finesse of both soloist and orchestra, something that only an extremely sensitive conductor can bring out. I grew up with Heifetz/Chicago/Reiner, and I believe the newer disc surpasses the old, although both are great music-making.

Harding is definitely a conductor to watch, and I look forward to hearing more from him.

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