Pianist Jan Lisiecki's new Beethoven concertos cd set

[Rach3]

To be released tomorrow,Friday,Sept 13. Released earlier in Europe ? Apparently recorded live :

https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/us/cat/4837637

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HJwwiOTpMU ( # 2 excerpt video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4OD7IXUUGo ( # 4 excerpt, no video)

Lisiecki also conducts.

[Rach3]

Apparently all at YouTube in full , which I missed.Have not heard yet:

https://tinyurl.com/y36fb5q3

[John F]

He's all of 24, yet DG of all labels has recorded him in not one but all five of the concertos. Well, at lest they saved the cost of a conductor's fee.

[maestrob]

I have his Mendelssohn Concerti, and they are quite extraordinary. I'm not sure that I need another set of Beethoven, but I'm sure his readings will be very good and will listen.

[Rach3]

I did listen to the 4th and 5th.May have to consider the set once price goes down. Enjoyed his enthusiasm. He’s respectful of, but not over-awed by, the works , nor intimidated by the competition. Certainly some of his own thoughts on tempii, attacks, sound,phrasing. I found some passages almost inaudible, but I assume that’s my old ears and YT sound, not DG .I liked 5th well enough, especially last mov., I went straight to 4th,which I liked even more than 5th. I share generally John F.'s reservations about recording youngsters in such repertoire , and he’s only 24, but then, why not perhaps. The way we elders have screwed up the World he may not get too many more chances. If you wish just a sample, suggest hearing first 2 movs. of 4th, then final mov. of 5th. I going on to the rest of the set later this weekend.

[Rach3]

Heard all. Only “ average” was the 1st , rest kept my attention, especially 2nd,4th gems, but 3rd,5th refreshing ,too. At 24 (!). Communication between Lisiecki and St.Martin notable, with a like-wise inspired effort by St.Martin , a testament to them and to their respect for Lisiecki’s effort here, a far better “comment” by them than me. Wonderful set; I will acquire. Was going to acquire Buchbinder’s interesting self-directed set with VPO , but will go with Lisiecki.

[maestrob]

Thanks for the review, Rach3. I may acquire this also, but later, as I've used up my CD allowance for October already!

[Rach3]

Thanks for the review, Rach3. I may acquire this also, but later, as I've used up my CD allowance for October already!

Can hear the set here on YT while you wait for November's allowance : https://tinyurl.com/y36fb5q3

[Lance]

I've used up my CD allowance well into January 2020. But the decision has been made NOT to acquire yet another set of Beethoven concertos. I even hate to tell you how many I already have and love. I will, of course, be interested to hear the pianist in the YouTube links mentioned. I mean, after Schnabel, Fleisher, Barenboim, Kempff, Perahia, Serkin, Gould, Rubinstein, de Larrocha, Lupu, Backhaus, Katchen, Arrau, Zimerman, Badura-Skoda, Solomon, Gilels, Bishop, Brendel, Uchida, Ax, Oppitz, Bronfman, Gulda, Kuerti, Glemser, Goode, Ciccolini, among some others, who else should I add to the list? In some cases there are more than one version with certain pianists hereon. So yes, I think I have quite enough, not to mention myriad separate recordings of each of the piano concertos. Sometimes we just have to say NO no matter how enticing it looks.

[barney]

I've used up my CD allowance well into January 2020. But the decision has been made NOT to acquire yet another set of Beethoven concertos. I even hate to tell you how many I already have and love. I will, of course, be interested to hear the pianist in the YouTube links mentioned. I mean, after Schnabel, Fleisher, Barenboim, Kempff, Perahia, Serkin, Gould, Rubinstein, de Larrocha, Lupu, Backhaus, Katchen, Arrau, Zimerman, Badura-Skoda, Solomon, Gilels, Bishop, Brendel, Uchida, Ax, Oppitz, Bronfman, Gulda, Kuerti, Glemser, Goode, Ciccolini, among some others, who else should I add to the list? In some cases there are more than one version with certain pianists hereon. So yes, I think I have quite enough, not to mention myriad separate recordings of each of the piano concertos. Sometimes we just have to say NO no matter how enticing it looks.

Sad but true, Lance. One special factor of new accounts is the quality of recording. It is far from a decisive factor for me, but I do enjoy the clarity and atmosphere of the best recordings.

[John F]

I see that Lance doesn't mention Walter Gieseking, who recorded the Beethoven concertos more than once. But I wouldn't recommend the ones I've heard, including the 4th concerto with Böhn which my parents had and which taught me the music. Gieseking never made an ugly sound at the keyboard, not that I've heard in his recordings, but in that recording he gives a fast-moving superficial performance which is no longer to my taste at all. Its only interest is that Gieseking plays Beethoven's less familiar cadenzas.

Gieseking was EMI's main pianost following World War II. For them he recorded not only the complete Debussy and Ravel solo piano music, a must for any serious record collector, but the complete Mozart solo piano music, as many of the Beethoven sonatas as he could before his death, and LP-length collections of Mendelssohn and Grieg; also Mozart songs with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf. I bought the Mozart set and was badly disappointed; not only are his interpretations superficial but he plays entirely without using the sustaining pedal, under the mistaken impression that Mozart's piano didn't have one. Paul Badura-Skoda notes wryly that Gieseking was a tall man, but if he had bent down he might have seen the lever under the keyboard with which Mozart could sustain tones using his knee.

[Lance]

Near as I know, I have everything Gieseking recorded, commercially and privately. I do not believe he recorded all five (5) of Beethoven's Piano Concertos (I was only listing complete versions I have in my original post - of all five concerti). He only recorded Nos. 1, 4, and 5, several times each of those. Here's a link to part one of his recorded discography. And like you, regarding his Mozart project for EMI, I, too, was disappointed, probably the only time I have been with his artistry. Still, his NAME sells, particularly in the impressionistic composers' works.
www.lee.classite.com/music/Gieseking/di ... htm#Brahms

I see that Lance doesn't mention Walter Gieseking, who recorded the Beethoven concertos more than once. But I wouldn't recommend the ones I've heard, including the 4th concerto with Böhn which my parents had and which taught me the music. Gieseking never made an ugly sound at the keyboard, not that I've heard in his recordings, but in that recording he gives a fast-moving superficial performance which is no longer to my taste at all. Its only interest is that Gieseking plays Beethoven's less familiar cadenzas.

Gieseking was EMI's main pianost following World War II. For them he recorded not only the complete Debussy and Ravel solo piano music, a must for any serious record collector, but the complete Mozart solo piano music, as many of the Beethoven sonatas as he could before his death, and LP-length collections of Mendelssohn and Grieg; also Mozart songs with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf. I bought the Mozart set and was badly disappointed; not only are his interpretations superficial but he plays entirely without using the sustaining pedal, under the mistaken impression that Mozart's piano didn't have one. Paul Badura-Skoda notes wryly that Gieseking was a tall man, but if he had bent down he might have seen the lever under the keyboard with which Mozart could sustain tones using his knee.

[John F]

This is one of my pet peeves, and not just with Lance's listing: to exclude important pianists and exceptional performances merely because the pianist did not record the composer's complete works in the genre. It may be convenient but I think that's usually all it is. For example, William Kapell recorded only one Beethoven concerto before his early death, the least popular No. 2, but I'd say it's more valuable than any number of versions in complete sets by other pianists.

This approach excludes nearly every recording from before the age of LP, while including many later ones of less value. Yes, we have Schnabel's Beethoven sonatas, because EMI invented the Society subscription series to sell them in advance, but nothing from other great Beethoven pianists, not even Wilhelm Kempff who recorded so many of the sonatas on 78s. And many other great Beethovenians of later vintage - Solomon comes to mind - didn't do complete sets; they took the sonatas and concertos one or two at a time instead of mass producing them, and so they are missing from a list of complete sets.

Others here may find such listings useful or at least interesting - Lance clearly does - and I've nothing against people writing about whatever they find interesting. Personally, however, I'd get more from a paragraph or even a sentence about a single recording - say, Leopold Godowski's of the Les Adieux sonata, his only Beethoven sonata on records, which I've never heard as it's not on YouTube.

[Rach3]

For example, William Kapell recorded only one Beethoven concerto before his early death, the least popular No. 2, but I'd say it's more valuable than any number of versions in complete sets by other pianists.

Fww,No.2 was played by Andre Watts at his 25th Anniversary concert at Avery Fisher way back when ( I saw the PBS broadcast ) , along with the Liszt # 1 and Rach # 2. If one were listen to only one from Lisiecki's set, I'd suggest the 2nd or 4th, complete at the YT link given earlier here.

[maestrob]

Gieseking did indeed record the Beethoven Fifth Concerto in experimental stereo in 1945 in Berlin with Arthur(?) Rother conducting (If you listen carefully, you can hear the Russian artillery in the quieter moments of the first movement.). The sound is quite good (60-10,000cps), and the performance is excellent IMHO, unlike his recordings of most of the Beethoven Sonatas, which sound cold and hard and are, to my ears, unlistenable: his Debussy, I agree is world-class. Like every great artist, he had his good and bad days.

[John F]

That's as anti-rhetorical performance of this very rhetorical concerto as you're likely to hear. Incidentally, there's another recording with anti-aircraft fire in the distance - Wanda Landowska's of the Scarlatti sonata in D, Kk 490, made in 1940. She was recording a second volume for EMI's Scarlatti Sonatas Society.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKX42sJ8ako

Germany invaded and defeated France in May-June 1940. Landowska soon left her home in France, leaving almost everything behind and arriving in the U.S. in 1941.

(The Gieseking Emperor has been uploaded to YouTube, where the caption claims that the noise isn't actually anti-aircraft fire but "occasional noise from Gieseking's wonky pedal." Maybe Lance can tell us if that's plausible; I don't think so.)

[Lance]

Hello, John! Inasmuch as we were talking about complete sets of Beethoven's piano concertos, I centered my response on that issue alone. Of course, I agree with you entirely. There are many one-only issues by pianists that may be and are better than some of those recorded all within a short period of time, or in several closely-tied sessions. Glenn Gould, for example, recorded all his Beethoven concertos with various orchestras and conductors at different times, which proffers his ideas at different times. Of the complete sets, however, in more current recordings, I think the Leon Fleisher set ranks among the best inasmuch as he was there to record only one or two concertos, and, as his producer, Howard Scott told me, there was time left to record all the concertos. Fleisher must have struggled with that idea for a time, since he didn't have a lot of time to rethink his interpretations. Nonetheless, being the superb musician and pianist he is/was (like Schnabel in these works), it all comes off very well. And you know that Artur Rubinstein recorded the 4th Concerto, G Major, with Sir Thomas Beecham using the Saint-Saens cadenzas, which makes that quite unique aside from those he did with Krips, Leinsdorf or Barenboim though I happen to think that the first complete set Rubinstein made with Krips is overall his best work in these concertos. The incredible Solomon also recorded his five concertos at different times, never to be issued as a complete set until after his passing.

Regarding Landowska's EMI CD of Scarlatti sonatas, I'll give that a hearing again and try to determine if it is warfare we hear in the background or, indeed, pedal noise.

This is one of my pet peeves, and not just with Lance's listing: to exclude important pianists and exceptional performances merely because the pianist did not record the composer's complete works in the genre. It may be convenient but I think that's usually all it is. For example, William Kapell recorded only one Beethoven concerto before his early death, the least popular No. 2, but I'd say it's more valuable than any number of versions in complete sets by other pianists.

This approach excludes nearly every recording from before the age of LP, while including many later ones of less value. Yes, we have Schnabel's Beethoven sonatas, because EMI invented the Society subscription series to sell them in advance, but nothing from other great Beethoven pianists, not even Wilhelm Kempff who recorded so many of the sonatas on 78s. And many other great Beethovenians of later vintage - Solomon comes to mind - didn't do complete sets; they took the sonatas and concertos one or two at a time instead of mass producing them, and so they are missing from a list of complete sets.

Others here may find such listings useful or at least interesting - Lance clearly does - and I've nothing against people writing about whatever they find interesting. Personally, however, I'd get more from a paragraph or even a sentence about a single recording - say, Leopold Godowski's of the Les Adieux sonata, his only Beethoven sonata on records, which I've never heard as it's not on YouTube.